Friedman: Slavin and Hurricanes working on a long-term extension

[Finlandia WOAT]

He won Olympic Gold with Canada in 2014

Yeah, I bet the underdog Team Canada couldn't have done that without Vlasic

 

[TLEH]

I expect it will be cheap, relative to the player.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I am biased but I'd rank Slavin better. He is the best defensemen I have ever seen play. He is the best defenseman in the world if comparing just in terms of defensive ability. Offensively, he usually ranks around 20-30th amongst defensemen in even strength points but he has virtually no power play time, so that gets held against him. He is the human eraser, the equivalent of having a Revis island when he is on the ice (though less apt a comparison due to the free flowing nature of hockey vs the more positionally static football).

Look, no offense but if Slavin is the best defenseman you’ve ever seen play you should watch some more hockey.

Everything you’re saying about Slavin is things that were said about Vlasic ten years ago. He was the single best defensive defenseman in the league for 5+ years consecutively and could still put up a respectable 30ish points with virtually no PP times. He had brutally tough defensive deployment and his analytical results were stunning.

I do think Slavin will age a little more gracefully than Vlasic did (mostly because of Vlasic’s piss-poor attitude), but he is not current better than prime Vlasic.

Yeah, I bet the underdog Team Canada couldn't have done that without Vlasic

Yeah, that was the point of me mentioning it.

More to the point, the Vlasic-Doughty pairing shut down the best hockey players in the world. He was actually quite important to that team.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

.


Yeah, that was the point of me mentioning it.

More to the point, the Vlasic-Doughty pairing shut down the best hockey players in the world. He was actually quite important to that team.

Good thing they had Vlasic.

Because of their notorious depth issues, Canada's 2nd pairing actually their first but whatever was 3rd pair on dead last in NHL Predators Shea Weber, and AHL super star Duncan Keith

Their third pair was someone they found working at Tim Horton's, and a curler who had never played hockey before

 

[Juxtaposer]

Good thing they had Vlasic.

Because of their notorious depth issues, Canada's 2nd pairing actually their first but whatever was 3rd pair on dead last in NHL Predators Shea Weber, and AHL super star Duncan Keith

Their third pair was someone they found working at Tim Horton's, and a curler who had never played hockey before

What exactly is your point beyond incoherent rambling?

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Wow I never thought of the Vlasic/Slavin comparisons but that makes a ton of sense

 

[NotOpie]

I have no doubt that Vlasic was a great defensive defenseman. As a Canes fan, I know that Jaccob Slavin is a great defensive defenseman. So who was the better defenseman overall. But let's put a little statistics out there for y'all's perusal. Let's compare the 1st 9 years of each of their careers:

Vlasic
+/- = +110
Points = 187
PIM = 265
Points per season avg. = 20.7
Playoff Pts. (career) = 39 (142 games)
Playoff Pts. (1st 9 seasons) = 14 (79 games)
Playoff PIM = 18

Slavin
+/- = +151
Points = 272
PIM = 86
Points per season avg. = 30.2
Playoff Pts. (71 games) = 36
Playoff PIM - 10

While none of those statistics tells the whole story (and yes +/- is a shit statistic, but it's a way to compare apples to apples, sort of), Slavin has a better +/- and took less than 1/3 of the penalty minutes.

From an overall defenseman standpoint, Slavin put up more points, put up more playoff points, took less playoff penalties, all the while averaging almost 10 points more per season. Vlasic had 3 seasons of 30 point or more his entire career. Slavin's scored 30 or more points 6 times.

But I'll let everyone else be the judge....

 

[BB88]

I have no doubt that Vlasic was a great defensive defenseman. As a Canes fan, I know that Jaccob Slavin is a great defensive defenseman. So who was the better defenseman overall. But let's put a little statistics out there for y'all's perusal. Let's compare the 1st 9 years of each of their careers:

Vlasic
+/- = +110
Points = 187
PIM = 265
Points per season avg. = 20.7
Playoff Pts. (career) = 39 (142 games)
Playoff Pts. (1st 9 seasons) = 14 (79 games)
Playoff PIM = 18

Slavin
+/- = +151
Points = 272
PIM = 86
Points per season avg. = 30.2
Playoff Pts. (71 games) = 36
Playoff PIM - 10

While none of those statistics tells the whole story (and yes +/- is a shit statistic, but it's a way to compare apples to apples, sort of), Slavin has a better +/- and took less than 1/3 of the penalty minutes.

From an overall defenseman standpoint, Slavin put up more points, put up more playoff points, took less playoff penalties, all the while averaging almost 10 points more per season. Vlasic had 3 seasons of 30 point or more his entire career. Slavin's scored 30 or more points 6 times.

But I'll let everyone else be the judge....

At the time Vlasic was seen as the premium defensive Dman, like Slavin today

Straight up comps are tough because times are different, conferences are different etc

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Vlasic’s prime also coincided with a much lower scoring era overall… and I’m sure not ALL of that is attributed to Vlasic shutting down the entire league. Vlasic was better in the physicality/playing the body in front of the net stuff compared to Slavin. That would be about it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I have no doubt that Vlasic was a great defensive defenseman. As a Canes fan, I know that Jaccob Slavin is a great defensive defenseman. So who was the better defenseman overall. But let's put a little statistics out there for y'all's perusal. Let's compare the 1st 9 years of each of their careers:

Vlasic
+/- = +110
Points = 187
PIM = 265
Points per season avg. = 20.7
Playoff Pts. (career) = 39 (142 games)
Playoff Pts. (1st 9 seasons) = 14 (79 games)
Playoff PIM = 18

Slavin
+/- = +151
Points = 272
PIM = 86
Points per season avg. = 30.2
Playoff Pts. (71 games) = 36
Playoff PIM - 10

While none of those statistics tells the whole story (and yes +/- is a shit statistic, but it's a way to compare apples to apples, sort of), Slavin has a better +/- and took less than 1/3 of the penalty minutes.

From an overall defenseman standpoint, Slavin put up more points, put up more playoff points, took less playoff penalties, all the while averaging almost 10 points more per season. Vlasic had 3 seasons of 30 point or more his entire career. Slavin's scored 30 or more points 6 times.

But I'll let everyone else be the judge....

So just to be clear, you’re using points, plus-minus, and penalty minutes to judge who is better between Vlasic and Slavin?

 

[Identity404]

So just to be clear, you’re using points, plus-minus, and penalty minutes to judge who is better between Vlasic and Slavin?

Your post on why Vlasic was better than Slavin was literally the equivalent of “trust me bro”.

 

[NotOpie]

So just to be clear, you’re using points, plus-minus, and penalty minutes to judge who is better between Vlasic and Slavin?

You stated that Vlasic was good for 30 points a season. He did that 3 times over his career. You brought up points.

I used the best stats available and it is why I clearly pointed out they were both great defensive defensemen. I merely added that if you looked at their overall performance, those stats measure that...especially using the 1st 9 years of Vlasic's career vs. Slavin's career (9 NHL seasons). It provides an equivalency.

 

[ClydeLee]

When watching Slavin I always come away thinking, why don't other defenders do that more. With his stick on the ice and breaking up passes and plays. It's a clear leap above anyone I see these days.

Vlasic was great, but so wee others at the time like he was around Lindstrom's end and Hjalmarsson was amazing defensively then.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I’ve never found good defense highlight worthy, but Slavin especially should have a highlight reel YouTube video dedicated to humiliating escape moves attached to second and third escape moves into a perfect 60 ft breakout pass over and over again. He made watching good defense fun.

I pull this up and watch it a few times every offseason to get myself hyped up for watching Canes hockey again.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Who cares about Vlasic? No two player are exactly alike so trying to judge how they'll age by comparing them to someone else is fruitless.

Vlasic was the premier defensive defenseman at his peak. Slavin has been that for the last few years. They differ though.

Slavin's skating and stick work are better than Vlasic's ever was, but Vlasic excelled in other areas over Slavin.

Just because they are two "defensive" defensemen, doesn't 't mean they are completely comparable.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I'm going to guess $7M for 8 years. The crystal ball has spoken

 

[emptyNedder]

Just because they are two "defensive" defensemen, doesn't 't mean they are completely comparable.

One defensive situation where they should be somewhat comparable is short-handed. In that situation, a D-man's goal is not to move the puck, but to defend.

Vlasic was on ice for 7.1 goals per 60 minutes short-handed.
Slavin has been on ice for 7.3 goals per 60 minutes short-handed.

So, perhaps, as "defensive" defenders, they are pretty close.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

One defensive situation where they should be somewhat comparable is short-handed. In that situation, a D-man's goal is not to move the puck, but to defend.

Vlasic was on ice for 7.1 goals per 60 minutes short-handed.
Slavin has been on ice for 7.3 goals per 60 minutes short-handed.

So, perhaps, as "defensive" defenders, they are pretty close.

Comparing career numbers isn't meaningful as:
1) Players are in different stages of development and decline
2) GA/60 are heavily dependent upon other factors. Early in his career, Carolina had absolutely shitty goaltending (Ward, Lack, Darling).

Pre Brind'Amour and better goaltending (15/16 through 17/18): 7.48 GA/60

Post Brind'Amour and better goaltending
18/19-20/21: 6.35 GA/60
21/22-23/24: 5.15 GA/60

3) Regardless if you think they are "pretty close" because of shorthanded time, it's meaningless in terms of how well they will or won't age.

 

[57special]

I am biased but I'd rank Slavin better. He is the best defensemen I have ever seen play. He is the best defenseman in the world if comparing just in terms of defensive ability. Offensively, he usually ranks around 20-30th amongst defensemen in even strength points but he has virtually no power play time, so that gets held against him. He is the human eraser, the equivalent of having a Revis island when he is on the ice (though less apt a comparison due to the free flowing nature of hockey vs the more positionally static football).

Opinion, not fact.

 

[TheFinalWord]

It's not a realistic comparison because Vlasic fell off in a way nobody expected. It was so quick, and for that reason, it's not likely that Slavin repeats it. Even if you think they were similar at this point, Vlasic's drop off was just crazy and uncommon.

 

[emptyNedder]

2) GA/60 are heavily dependent upon other factors. Early in his career, Carolina had absolutely shitty goaltending (Ward, Lack, Darling).

As a Canes fan, it is surprising you buy the trope that Ward was really bad. Especially when Carolina was on the PK.

From 15-16 through 17-18 Rinne and Bobrovsky were arguably the best goalies. . Their save %s on the PK respectively were .853/.863/.869 and .869/.891/.832. Ward's was .862/.873/.858.

Darling struggled for 1 1/4 seasons--obviously.

The overall Carolina PK has improved under RBA, which are reflected in Slavin's numbers. But his higher numbers earlier were not due to Ward.

 

[Stickpucker]

I pull this up and watch it a few times every offseason to get myself hyped up for watching Canes hockey again.

Watching his hand eye and the thread about Tom Glavine made me wonder if Slavin ever played baseball.

 

[cptjeff]

Watching his hand eye and the thread about Tom Glavine made me wonder if Slavin ever played baseball.

C-Team in High School, apparently. So yes, but never seriously.

 

[bleedgreen]

C-Team in High School, apparently. So yes, but never seriously.

I forgot about that article. Fun to read. I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Erie over my 25 years here and he’s right. It was a dirt road off the highway and now it’s got everything with a downtown street full of breweries and coffee shops. I used to be involved in the environmental world back when that area was starting to get developed, mind blowing to see it now.

A coworker I play with sometimes grew up playing with Slavin. Apparently the Slavin household is pretty well off and they had some kind of home rink in the basement. Slavin would have guys over to play. I heard jokes but about private planes but I don’t know about that for sure, next time we talk about it I’ll ask.

 

[StreetHawk]

In principle I get the why of it but at the same time it severely limits them like now losing Jake who played at an elite level.
The canes have made the playoffs for what 8 years in a row? Yet they've underachieved at best to downright failing depending on expectations.
Maybe it's not related or maybe if they were a little more flexible, towards older players things would be different.

Is this another example of anylytics saying older player bad? Cuz if that's why they have this approach it's a really dumb reason since anylytics can't measure or predict heart and intangibles like grit.

Carolina aims to not have a bad contract on their books due to a player aging. They've dealt for guys in their 30's who don't have much term left or at least are playing well enough to warrant the cap hit, like Patches and Burns.

But, they rarely sign guys at 29 to 36/37 years of age.

Aho, starts his new deal in 24/25 at age 27. That's when you like these 7/8 year terms to begin.
But, with Pesce/Guentzal who are 29 and turning 30 before the end of the year and Slavin being 31 when the new deal begins, getting the term right for the team is the hard part.