Silayev, Lindstrom, Catton, Iginla, Parekh, Eiserman

[ReHabs]

The only crooked thing that happened with Malkin's transfer was what his KHL team did and not what the NHL. KHL teams don't want a fair transfer agreement because of the greed/ego of the KHL owners and not the greed of NHL teams.

On what grounds do you say this?

The KHL's screwing with it's young players pre-dates Malkin, in fact it's them screwing with him that led to the whole controversy with him in the first place. You're out to lunch on this one.

They want to get reimbursed for their players. I don't have any stake or interest in any KHL teams but I'm not going to deny their agency and preferences in the relationship.

The point is that it isn't the players' fault there is no transfer agreement between the KHL and NHL. A good prospect shouldn't be ignored because of it -- good prospects come over to play at the highest level (NHL).

 

[Adam Michaels]

The NHL initiated a lock out of every player twice in recent memory.

I'm talkin about punishing individual players based on not wanting to extend a contract with the team he's playing on. It's an organization basing a hockey decision because of that, not a league-wide conflict between owners and players regarding the CBA.

And it goes beyond just prospects. PLD let the Jets know he had no intention of signing an extension with them, they didn't stuff him on the 4th line and scratch him. He still played on their Top-6. If he was put lower in the line-up, it was based on his play, not because of his contract situation.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm talkin about punishing individual players based on not wanting to extend a contract with the team he's playing on. It's an organization basing a hockey decision because of that, not a league-wide conflict between owners and players regarding the CBA.

They tend to not give TOI to prospects because they'd rather not devleop them knowing they'll leave.

And it goes beyond just prospects. PLD let the Jets know he had no intention of signing an extension with them, they didn't stuff him on the 4th line and scratch him. He still played on their Top-6. If he was put lower in the line-up, it was based on his play, not because of his contract situation.

PLD wasn't a prospect and the Jets needed him to perform for both their playoff hunt and as a trade asset because -- get this -- they knew they'd get assets back for him. KHL teams get nothing for developing prospects, so they'd rather give that TOI to another prospect.

 

[Sorinth]

On what grounds do you say this?

They want to get reimbursed for their players. I don't have any stake or interest in any KHL teams but I'm not going to deny their agency and preferences in the relationship.

The point is that it isn't the players' fault there is no transfer agreement between the KHL and NHL. A good prospect shouldn't be ignored because of it -- good prospects come over to play at the highest level (NHL).

Can't find the in depth article that talked about it but the gist of it was Malkin was begged by the owner to not immediately go to the NHL after getting drafted and Malkin agreed to a 2 year deal as a favour to the owner after which he would go to the NHL. After that 2 year deal ended the owner changed his mind about allow Malkin to go to the NHL and essentially forced him to sign a 1 year extension, and Malkins own words for that extension was lossely that he signed it because he was being psychologically pressured and coerced. At the time of his defection they had even taken his passport away from him which you know is the type of thing human trafficers do and not standard business practice.

If the KHL wanted money for developing players they would sign a transfer agreement, it's as simple as that. They are the ones that don't want to sign a deal with the NHL. And yes it's not the players fault, but the realities of drafting a KHL player who has made it know they want to go to NA and play in the NHL is that the team is more likely then not going to do nothing to help that prospect develop, so you draft the kid knowing he'll be getting sub-par development time for the remainder of his KHL contract. The kid is not being punished/ignored by slipping in the draft but the KHL's treatment of it's NHL bound prospects shouldn't be ignored either because it will have an impact on how good a player will ultimately be.

 

[Adam Michaels]

They tend to not give TOI to prospects because they'd rather not devleop them knowing they'll leave.

Guhle has one year left on his ELC. If he tells the Habs he doesn't plan to sign another contract with them, they won't send him to Laval or 3R or put him on the third pair or scratch him. They'll keep him playing in the Top- 4 because as far as the Habs are concerned, they don't want to tank his value for a trade while also benefitting by playing a better player more regularly.

If he is sent to Laval, the 3rd pair or scratched it's because he's not playing up to standards. They won't do that if he's playing well and earns it.

PLD wasn't a prospect and the Jets needed him to perform for both their playoff hunt and as a trade asset because -- get this -- they knew they'd get assets back for him. KHL teams get nothing for developing prospects, so they'd rather give that TOI to another prospect.

Loan him to another KHL team. SKA would get monetary compensation for him. They don't give him away for free. So they do get something in return. Sochi paid to have Michkov.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Loan him to another KHL team. SKA would get monetary compensation for him. They don't give him away for free. So they do get something in return. Sochi paid to have Michkov.

IIRC you can't loan players in the last year of their contract in the KHL.

 

[Adam Michaels]

IIRC you can't loan players in the last year of their contract in the KHL.

If that's the case, they could have loaned him because it wasn't Demidov's final year under contract last season. This upcoming season is the final year.

 

[ReHabs]

Can't find the in depth article that talked about it but the gist of it was Malkin was begged by the owner to not immediately go to the NHL after getting drafted and Malkin agreed to a 2 year deal as a favour to the owner after which he would go to the NHL. After that 2 year deal ended the owner changed his mind about allow Malkin to go to the NHL and essentially forced him to sign a 1 year extension, and Malkins own words for that extension was lossely that he signed it because he was being psychologically pressured and coerced. At the time of his defection they had even taken his passport away from him which you know is the type of thing human trafficers do and not standard business practice.

It's not the perspective KHL fans have of the whole affair -- they're rather bitter about it all actually. Malkin entered the US with his own passport so this 'human trafifckers' stuff is a bit of a stretch.

If the KHL wanted money for developing players they would sign a transfer agreement, it's as simple as that. They are the ones that don't want to sign a deal with the NHL. And yes it's not the players fault, but the realities of drafting a KHL player who has made it know they want to go to NA and play in the NHL is that the team is more likely then not going to do nothing to help that prospect develop, so you draft the kid knowing he'll be getting sub-par development time for the remainder of his KHL contract. The kid is not being punished/ignored by slipping in the draft but the KHL's treatment of it's NHL bound prospects shouldn't be ignored either because it will have an impact on how good a player will ultimately be.

It takes two to tango. The NHL has no interest in treating the KHL as a league with its own interests, so there isn't an agreement to be found. KHL teams want compensation (like European football does with player transfers) and the NHL is not interested at all.

Guhle has one year left on his ELC. If he tells the Habs he doesn't plan to sign another contract with them, they won't send him to Laval or 3R or put him on the third pair or scratch him. They'll keep him playing in the Top- 4 because as far as the Habs are concerned, they don't want to tank his value for a trade while also benefitting by playing a better player more regularly.

If he is sent to Laval, the 3rd pair or scratched it's because he's not playing up to standards. They won't do that if he's playing well and earns it.

Yes you got it. Now, unlike the Habs, since the KHL can't get paid for the prospect and don't get any assets for the prospect, they have no incentive to play the prospect.

Loan him to another KHL team. SKA would get monetary compensation for him. They don't give him away for free. So they do get something in return. Sochi paid to have Michkov.

Only if the prospect is good enough to help the other KHL team immediately (the KHL is not a very youngster-friendly league)... and if he is good enough to play in the KHL, he will play in the KHL. Like Michkov and others before him. It's the prospects and tweeners that get the short end of the stick. Michkov is a KHL-level player, a phenom at his age.

 

[Sorinth]

It's not the perspective KHL fans have of the whole affair -- they're rather bitter about it all actually. Malkin entered the US with his own passport so this 'human trafifckers' stuff is a bit of a stretch.


It takes two to tango. The NHL has no interest in treating the KHL as a league with its own interests, so there isn't an agreement to be found. KHL teams want compensation (like European football does with player transfers) and the NHL is not interested at all.

If the NHL isn't interested in transfer agreements then why does it have one with every other league? As for his passport it's in Malkin's fricken wikipedia article about him that the team took it.

 

[salbutera]

 

[Gustave]

We are getting trolled hard

 

[LaP]

We are getting trolled hard

There's a strong possibly some scouts are actually trolling those journalists. Like let's say i'm a pro scout paid by a NHL team why the f*** would i talk about our private evaluation to a journalist who might then share it with the world. I might be like f*** this and troll the guy.

Those scouts probably have signed a NDA with their contract. I'm a IT guy and with every company i worked for i had to sign a NDA saying i would not share code or data owned by the company i work for to anybody external to the company. In fact i can't share data or code with people from the company who are not supposed to have access to said data or code. I would be extremely surprised if NHL scouts don't have to sign a NDA.

A lot of those reports might be trolling or voluntary leaks. Like the GM telling his scouts to say to the journalists that they have Dickinson high on their list because they want to draft Lidstrom.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If true then these scouts are mentally ill

 

[Tyson]

If true then these scouts are mentally ill

Yeah cuz we amateurs know much more than scouts that do this for a living.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Yeah cuz we amateurs know much more than scouts that do this for a living.

You’re right, everyone who gets paid to do a job is infallible lmfao

 

[Miller Time]

Interesting.

I wonder what the hesitation is... Michkov had some character concerns (fair or not) on top of the Russia/contract fears, but I don't recall seeing those kinds of red flags attached to Demidov

 

[salbutera]

Interesting.

I wonder what the hesitation is... Michkov had some character concerns (fair or not) on top of the Russia/contract fears, but I don't recall seeing those kinds of red flags attached to Demidov

Courtesy of The Athletic:

There are a lot of questions about Demidov, though.

From a strictly hockey standpoint, the Canadiens recognize Demidov has game-breaking qualities they lack in the organization. But there is some doubt about whether his style would translate well to playoff hockey in the NHL. We were given the comparisons of David Pastrnak, and Mitch Marner having some difficulty in the playoffs this year. Demidov is also not a perfect skater and does not have ideal size — though there is a belief he is bigger than his listed 5-foot-11 — but his compete and the consistency in his production are seen as pluses. And the fact that production came in the MHL is not ideal, but Demidov played in the top division of the MHL and maintained his production against both strong and weak opponents, on top of exploding in the playoffs.

But more than the strict hockey questions are the ones surrounding his status in Russia.

Demidov has one year left on his contract with SKA Saint Petersburg, which sounds like good news. But it complicates Demidov’s situation in several ways.

First off, if Demidov doesn’t sign an extension with Saint Petersburg, some see it as unlikely they would keep him with their KHL club next season, and you are not allowed to loan out players with one year left on their contract to other KHL teams. So, Demidov might be forced to play another season in the junior MHL, which would be a complete waste of time at this point and could stunt his development for a year.

But at least under that scenario, he would be in North America next year.

Except there is a real sense, and not just from the Canadiens, that SKA likes Demidov and would like him to play for them. And when they feel that way, SKA tends to be persistent, and there are certain pressure valves they can access.

Numerous conversations with scouts and team officials at the combine confirmed the Demidov situation is a total wild card. He has two brothers playing in the SKA organization, his family lives there, his own development as a player — all of it represents ways Demidov could be pressured into signing an extension in Russia.

It’s a potential factor here that seems quite real, and if it were to come down to Lindstrom or Demidov for the Canadiens, this would definitely be a big part of that conversation.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Interesting.

I wonder what the hesitation is... Michkov had some character concerns (fair or not) on top of the Russia/contract fears, but I don't recall seeing those kinds of red flags attached to Demidov

It's just the lack of live viewings and the worry that SKA will force him into a contract extension or waste another year of his development at the MHL level.

The Habs will take him at 5, Basu seemed pretty clear about that.

 

[Tyson]

You’re right, everyone who gets paid to do a job is infallible lmfao

Not infallible but damn sure more in tune than any of us.

 

[Scintillating10]

Interesting.

I wonder what the hesitation is... Michkov had some character concerns (fair or not) on top of the Russia/contract fears, but I don't recall seeing those kinds of red flags attached to Demidov

They have to pass on good talent like Lindstrom to take him. Makes them think.

 

[Miller Time]

Not infallible but damn sure more in tune than any of us.

You'd be surprised...

There are a number of posters on this site whose depth of assessment capacity and insight clarity far exceeds some of the pro sports individuals I've known.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

I would be happy with these picks (if we don’t make any trades).

#5
Demidov (scoring winger)
Lindstrom (#2 line power forward)
Iginla (top 6 forward all situation)
Sennecke (flashy big winger)

#26
Yegor Surin (#2nd line skilled physical center)
Liam Greentree (top 9 power forward)
Stian Solberg (big physical defenseman)
Trevor Connelly (skilled winger)

 

[Ozmodiar]

I’d like a word with those nearly 12 teams !

 

[Rockomax]

McKenzie hasn't released his last list yet, has he? Do we know approximately when to expect it to get released? Since the draft is wide open after #1, any chance the list might take longer to prepare?

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Pick a ranking number ( if you don’t already have one ) for Michael Hage?

I thought a hypothetical move by Habs into the 18-20 bracket could land him.

But he seems to be getting/gaining interest.

Suzuki, Dach, Beck, Hage. Hmmm.
( also insurance if Dach continues to be dogged by injury)

Anyway, getting the feeling Hage is a Top 15-er now. FWIW.