Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

[edog37]

The fact is you see your opinion as a fact would immediately prompt me to consider another way of thinking.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Richard. Good luck trying not to sound historically ignorant replacing ANY of those 5 with Sidney Crosby or anyone else. That goes for anyone.

My opinion is that Bure flies by all of em. The FACT is Gretzky Lemieux Orr Howe and Richard.

Lemieux, Gretzky & Orr are solid locks & will always be because the way they played changed the game.

Richard isn't because he played in a lesser league. Not his fault, but in a 6 team league with rules to stack a certain team puts that claim in considerable doubt. Sid has brought home Cups & Olympic Gold Medals (Richard never did that), Lemieux did it, Gretzky never did. Sid plays in a considerably harder league today than Richard ever did (again, not even up for debate given the conditioning level of today's athletes). He just won his 3rd Cup in 9 years in a salary cap league. The rules are stacked against super teams, they don't benefit them. To do this is downright impressive alone. To do it with a history of concussion issues puts him on a whole different level. Rocket falls to #6 behind #87...

 

[T REX]

I don't think Crosby's noggin' will hold up. One more concussion and he probably has to retire. It sucks but he's close to having his brains ladled out like soup.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

the best in the toughest era

best of all time no doubt

ALL HE DOES IS WIN WIN WIN NO MATTER WHAT

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I don't think Crosby's noggin' will hold up. One more concussion and he probably has to retire. It sucks but he's close to having his brains ladled out like soup.

You forgot to mention you " hope " that is what will happen.

Enjoy the off season

 

[Hank Plank]

Imagine where Crosby would be at this point if he didn't get crosschecked on the back of the neck 30 times in one shift, and didn't get half his teeth knocked out after he came back.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Bit manufactured, those Conn Smyth wins are debatable, should have been Phil last year or Murray, Gino or Fleury had he remained healthy this year.

Crosby hasn't been dominate like the other all time greats.

 

[T REX]

You forgot to mention you " hope " that is what will happen.

Enjoy the off season

I have never and will never hope for anyone to be injured.

You are wrong. Act like you've been here before.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I have never and will never hope for anyone to be injured.

You are wrong. Act like you've been here before.

Well if I played for the team I'd say I have been here before...last year

Its just a game dude...you have about 100 posts claiming the pens will suck next year and " the tears will be great". Idk if you are about ten years old and not to take these posts seriously... Or if you are an adult...and in that case I'd feel bad even responding in a negative way

 

[T REX]

Well if I played for the team I'd say I have been here before...last year

Its just a game dude...you have about 100 posts claiming the pens will suck next year and " the tears will be great". Idk if you are about ten years old and not to take these posts seriously... Or if you are an adult...and in that case I'd feel bad even responding in a negative way

Wow, another classless Pens fan. I never said once the Pens suck. Not once...so who's the kid now? You can't even quote me properly. Do they teach English in Pittsburgh? Grammar?

Come back when you learn some humility.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Yes he is, and Howe is overrated.

 

[Tesaka]

1. gretz
2. lemieux
3. orr
4. messier
5. crosby?

I dont think Kurri is far from that list?

 

[Jaromir Blogger]

It's nice that you believe this. However, 95% of hockey fans in the world don't.


Sid is clearly not in the top-10 now. I'd say he has about a 10-20% chance of breaking into the top-10 by the end of his career, if a lot of things go right. (Which they might -- the NHL is gifting him Conn Smythes, apparently, so who knows what else they'll do to sell him?)

Great post as always, Panther.

Guys, go back and really watch a lot of hockey from the past. You'll come to your own conclusions and we are all entitled to our own opinions, but really watch other legends and how some of them just took over games with their will and skill. How often do you see Crosby do that? How many huge games do you see Crosby just take over because he refuses to lose? He's one of the best to ever lace 'em up, but he lacks that top gear that so many legends above him in the pantheon had.

If you'll pardon the cross-sport reference, Sidney Crosby reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning (with significantly less statistical dominance) - amazing player, great stats, an impressive trophy case, but you never see them truly elevate their game and just flat-out carry their team to victory during the postseason. How many huge playoff games have we seen from both of them where you think: "Well, they had a nice game and helped the team win", but you don't say to yourself: "Good lord, that guy was just a force of nature out there"? You know both guys had the capacity to do that, too, but you rarely see it in the biggest moments. If I were playing a Super Bowl, I'd take Eli over Peyton 10 out of 10 times. The guy just has that top gear in big moments, even if he's a lesser player with a significantly lower career quality. How many of the other top QBs would you say that about? Would you say that about Montana? Brady? Elway (even with the four SB losses)? Absolutely not. And there are a lot of lesser players I'd rather have in Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final than Sidney Crosby. To paraphrase a great post from The Panther from a few weeks ago, you never really see Crosby pick up his team by the scruff of its neck and just will it to victory. He's a great, great player, but you don't see that from him. And that counts for a lot.

The top ten or top five are extremely rarified air. I refuse to put anyone in my top ten (much less top five) who I wouldn't be dying to have in a Game 7.

 

[Admiral Awesome]

Howe is overrated.

Please expand.

 

[edog37]

Great post as always, Panther.

Guys, go back and really watch a lot of hockey from the past. You'll come to your own conclusions and we are all entitled to our own opinions, but really watch other legends and how some of them just took over games with their will and skill. How often do you see Crosby do that? How many huge games do you see Crosby just take over because he refuses to lose? He's one of the best to ever lace 'em up, but he lacks that top gear that so many legends above him in the pantheon had.

If you'll pardon the cross-sport reference, Sidney Crosby reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning (with significantly less statistical dominance) - amazing player, great stats, an impressive trophy case, but you never see them truly elevate their game and just flat-out carry their team to victory during the postseason. How many huge playoff games have we seen from both of them where you think: "Well, they had a nice game and helped the team win", but you don't say to yourself: "Good lord, that guy was just a force of nature out there"? You know both guys had the capacity to do that, too, but you rarely see it in the biggest moments. If I were playing a Super Bowl, I'd take Eli over Peyton 10 out of 10 times. The guy just has that top gear in big moments, even if he's a lesser player with a significantly lower career quality. How many of the other top QBs would you say that about? Would you say that about Montana? Brady? Elway (even with the four SB losses)? Absolutely not. And there are a lot of lesser players I'd rather have in Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final than Sidney Crosby. To paraphrase a great post from The Panther from a few weeks ago, you never really see Crosby pick up his team by the scruff of its neck and just will it to victory. He's a great, great player, but you don't see that from him. And that counts for a lot.

The top ten or top five are extremely rarified air. I refuse to put anyone in my top ten (much less top five) who I wouldn't be dying to have in a Game 7.

I've watched Sid his entire career (& Mario before that). There are many nights he takes a game over & gets it done. He just did so in Game 5 not 3 days ago. There isn't a player who's his peer offensively, though Macdavid will be. Plus, his defensive game is just as good. Throughout these playoffs he busted his ass getting back in the d zone & broke up odd man breaks. Another factor is elevating players. Jake Guentzel became a name because of #87. So did Connor Sherry. So did Pascal Dupuis. Sid is the straw which stirs the Pens' drink. You need a big faceoff win? Yeah he can do that too. The fact is there isn't a more complete player in the game today. In the salary cap era, there has been only player who has led his team to 3 Cups, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, & 1 World Cup. Again #87. So I don't know what you are talking about when you say he doesn't elevate a team. Funny because the teams he does captain seem to win all these titles...

 

[finchster]

Crosby is hardly a top 5 centre of all time, let alone a top five player of all time. But he is creeping up the list. I can say; Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux. Bobby Hull, Shore, Beliveau, Shore, Hasek, Roy, and Richard are all better than Crosby.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Yzerman (in 22 Seasons)
3 Cups
1 Ted Lindsay
1 Conn Smythe
0 Hart
0 Art Ross
0 Richard
1 Selke
6 Top 10 goal finishes
6 Top 10 point finishes
16th in career points per game

Sakic (in 20 season)
2 Cups
1 Ted Lindsay
1 Conn Smythe
1 Hart
0 Art Ross
0 Richard
0 Selke
5 Top 10 goal finishes
10 Top 10 point finishes
12th career points per game

Crosby (in 12 season)
3 Cups
3 Ted Lindsay
2 Conn Smythe
2 Hart
2 Art Ross
2 Richard
0 Selke
4 Top 10 goal finishes
9 Top 10 point finishes
6th career points per game (yes I am aware this will go down once he hits the latter stages of his career)

Sid is already ahead of these guys in almost every way and has barely played half as long.

Ever considered the competition when these guys played? Pretty hard to win those awards when 99 and 66 were around.

 

[FinProspects]

How often do you see Crosby do that? How many huge games do you see Crosby just take over because he refuses to lose? He's one of the best to ever lace 'em up, but he lacks that top gear that so many legends above him in the pantheon had.

Amazing player, great stats, an impressive trophy case, but you never see them truly elevate their game and just flat-out carry their team to victory during the postseason. How many huge playoff games have we seen from both of them where you think: "Well, they had a nice game and helped the team win", but you don't say to yourself: "Good lord, that guy was just a force of nature out there"? You know both guys had the capacity to do that, too, but you rarely see it in the biggest moments.

I have no effin clue what you are talking about. Seriously, did you watch Game5 in the SC final? That was a performance for the ages. Two losses in Nashville (in the second one Sid was great as well), series is 2-2, a lot of people were on Nashville's wagon.. What happens next? 6-0. Led by Sid, 0+3. He won the Smythe right there. He turned the series, right there. What else do you want?

I'm puzzled about the stuff you post on regular basis.

As for the Winning, Sid=Tom Brady.

3Cups
2Smythes
2Olympic Golds (2 goals in the finals)
1WHC
1WHC MVP

For regular season, I understand that people might prefer still other players in top15 than Sid. But Sid's postseason success will move him in the top10 already.

 

[Jaromir Blogger]

I've watched Sid his entire career (& Mario before that). There are many nights he takes a game over & gets it done. He just did so in Game 5 not 3 days ago. There isn't a player who's his peer offensively, though Macdavid will be. Plus, his defensive game is just as good. Throughout these playoffs he busted his ass getting back in the d zone & broke up odd man breaks. Another factor is elevating players. Jake Guentzel became a name because of #87. So did Connor Sherry. So did Pascal Dupuis. Sid is the straw which stirs the Pens' drink. You need a big faceoff win? Yeah he can do that too. The fact is there isn't a more complete player in the game today. In the salary cap era, there has been only player who has led his team to 3 Cups, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, & 1 World Cup. Again #87. So I don't know what you are talking about when you say he doesn't elevate a team. Funny because the teams he does captain seem to win all these titles...

I have to disagree about Game 5. He was really good, but that didn't seem like The Sid Show to me. That just seemed like a collective Pens blowout.

I also think it's debatable whether he lacks any peers offensively. Wouldn't he have more Art Rosses if that were the case? And he most certainly isn't as good defensively as he is offensively. He's good defensively, but he isn't a Selke-level forward in that regard. That said, I think he's #1 in the world right now, but that doesn't mean what it used to, either.

And who drove those Olympic teams? Crosby did not have an extremely impressive showing in either tournament, and was nowhere close to Canada's best player.

And in all three Stanley Cup runs, was he far and away the best player? Sure, he got a pair of Smythes, but the enormous debate around both of them (especially last year's) indicates that it wasn't clear cut and he wasn't head and shoulders above everybody else.

I simply don't see Crosby as the champion warrior you do, and that's ok!

 

[FinProspects]

When all is said and done it all depends on how well Crosby plays in his 30s. I personally think as long as his health holds up that he should be a unanimous #5 guy of all-time, but that it is still very hard to crack that top 4, and I don't think he does it.

Top5 for me would require couple Harts+Arts still, possibly one more Cup+Smythe. I agree that Top4 is set in stone, unless Sid elevates his play back to 10-11 level suddenly for 2-3 years. Then he could compete with Gordie.

Mario, Wayne or Orr, he will never touch.

But if he wouldnt win a single individual award from 2017-> rest of his career and would score on ppgish, he would still be a top10 player. For that he doesnt need anything other than quality longevity. I think the b2b cups+smythes is that special achievment, that there is really no question he is in top10 already IMHO.

 

[FinProspects]

I simply don't see Crosby as the champion warrior you do, and that's ok!

Thats ok, you do realize though that you are in the 0,5% minority with couple of others here in Hfboards? The rest of the world sees him differently. Well, I guess they are all wrong!

 

[JL95]

again, most of those guys played in a 6 team league. They never played in a 31 (now 32 team league) with talent from all over the world. If you dropped Bealiveau into today's game, he would be a star, but not a legend. Today's players are far bigger, far better conditioned & all around better athletes. It's not even close. Sakic & Yzerman were great players, but don't even crack Top 20. The fact is, Sid is now Top 5 (#5 to be precise), but he's earned the right.

That's an unfalsifiable argument. Bealiveau may not have played in a league with world class talent but to assume he would never achieve the same success he had in the 50s is pure speculation. If he were to play in today's league, he would receive the same training, nutrition and conditioning as every other player, so who knows how that would've increased his abilities on the ice. On the other hand, place Crosby in the 1950s where nutrition, conditioning and training was poor and who knows how much his abilities would decrease. The only way you can really compare two great players from different eras is to see how much they set themselves apart from their peers. And in that case, Crosby and Beauliveau are close. Sure, its not a perfect comparison due to different quality of competition, but that's the best we can do.

As for the original question, I'd agree that Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe are above. Beauliveau would be in conversation vs Crosby for #5. Hasek is also in the conversation for #5 as well. 6 Vezinas, 2 harts and there is an argument for him being the greatest goaltender of all time. Jagr would be another contender. 5 Art Rosses, 1 Hart, second all time in points. There were numerous Jagr vs Crosby polls made this year and most of them were neck and neck. 1 more cup isn't enough to put him over Jagr's body of work imo.

 

[Whiston532]

Honestly because of the inability for sports fans to seemingly feel comfortable even CONCEIVING that a player presently playing could be an all time great we'll probably not be even remotely close to even a shread of an agreement on Crosby till like 2030.

 

[KPower]

1.Gretzky
2.Crosby
3.Orr
4.Mario
5.Howe

 

[Eisen]

Lemieux, Gretzky & Orr are solid locks & will always be because the way they played changed the game.

Richard isn't because he played in a lesser league. Not his fault, but in a 6 team league with rules to stack a certain team puts that claim in considerable doubt. Sid has brought home Cups & Olympic Gold Medals (Richard never did that), Lemieux did it, Gretzky never did. Sid plays in a considerably harder league today than Richard ever did (again, not even up for debate given the conditioning level of today's athletes). He just won his 3rd Cup in 9 years in a salary cap league. The rules are stacked against super teams, they don't benefit them. To do this is downright impressive alone. To do it with a history of concussion issues puts him on a whole different level. Rocket falls to #6 behind #87...

It is up for debate, that is the whole crux when it comes to this discussion.

 

[bombers15]

Crosby is hardly a top 5 centre of all time, let alone a top five player of all time. But he is creeping up the list. I can say; Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux. Bobby Hull, Shore, Beliveau, Shore, Hasek, Roy, and Richard are all better than Crosby.

I would absolutely love an explanation on how Eddie Shore was better than Crosby.