Toggle sidebar

Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

Status
Not open for further replies.
eXile59 said:
Jagr, Lidstrom, Hull, Esposito, I get that. Some of the others have 1/3 the resume of Crosby and played less competitive eras.
Click to expand...

If you look at a small enough career sample, yeah, Crosby's peak is better than other guys, but it's tough to overcome the longevity edge that the other players have.

Once voting results are released for 2017, Crosby will have 7 seasons as a post-season all-star. Most of the other guys on the above list are in double digits.
 
Dreakmur said:
If you look at a small enough career sample, yeah, Crosby's peak is better than other guys, but it's tough to overcome the longevity edge that the other players have.

Once voting results are released for 2017, Crosby will have 7 seasons as a post-season all-star. Most of the other guys on the above list are in double digits.
Click to expand...

4 first team at center is very elite. I don't really care about 2nd team all stars so I don't look at those on resumes. For comparison lemieux "only" has 5 first team all stars at center and he is a de facto top 4 player ever
 
edog37 said:
Neil Hamburger said:
Gretzky
Orr
Howe
Lemieux

are all still solidly above him.

He might slide into that 5 slot, but it's not clear cut. He's competing with guys like Hull, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Shore, etc.
Click to expand...

He passed those guys. This is a 31 team league now. His entire body of work is far more impressive.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but are you suggesting that Crosby's body of work is more impressive because he plays in a more diluted league?
 
Ageless66 said:
4 first team at center is very elite. I don't really care about 2nd team all stars so I don't look at those on resumes. For comparison lemieux "only" has 5 first team all stars at center and he is a de facto top 4 player ever
Click to expand...

Being the 2nd best centre in the world is also elite.

An important thing that we haven't really discussed yet is the is competition for those votes. Lemieux finished behind Gretzky a few times, behind Messier a few times, and behind a peak Yzerman once. Beliveau and Mikita took 1st teams from each other at times. Richard and Howe went head to head, and also had Bathgate and Geoffrion to deal with. Harvey had Kelly and Gadsby. etc, etc....

During Crosby's career, who's the next best center? Probably Joe Thornton, maybe Evgeni Malkin.
 
Last edited:
Dreakmur said:
Being the 2nd best centre in the world is also elite.

An important thing that we haven't really discussed yet is the is competition for those votes. Lemieux finished behind Gretzky a few times, behind Messier a few times, and behind a peak Yzerman once. Beliveau and Mikita took 1st teams from each other at times. Richard and Howe went head to head, and also had Bathgate and Geoffrion to deal with. Harvey had Kelly and Gadsby. etc, etc....

During Crosby's career, who's the next best center? Probably Joe Thornton, maybe Evgeni Malkin.
Click to expand...

Malkin>>>Thornton
 
Chairman Maouth said:
I'm not sure, but are you suggesting that Crosby's body of work is more impressive because he plays in a more diluted league?
Click to expand...

I used to think it was a diluted league but now not so much. The talent level is so much higher these days. You drop Crosby back in the pre-expansion era & he would crush those guys. Those guys wouldn't have the stamina to keep up with him. Now you have talent from all over the world which wasn't the case back then. I'm stating that Crosby's body of work is more impressive because he plays in a far greater diversified league.
 
armani said:
I see some recency bias (or simple ignorance wrt Jagr of two-three decades ago) in some of the posts here, having watched Lemieux, Jagr, and Crosby through out their prime.

Crosby has one more cup as the captain and has been Pittsburgh's de facto best player. Jagr was never the best player during Lemieux cup wins, cuz Lemieux. But that doesn't change the fact that Jagr is the better, more dangerous player to either Crosby or Malkin. I don't see Pittsburgh winning three cups without one of Crosby or Malkin - these guys are both franchise centres and league leaders in points.

Crosby means a lot to the Pens success, him and Malkin won more cups together than Lemieux and Jagr. I understand that. But that doesn't change the fact that both Lemieux and Jagr were better players in their careers.

Crosby's not top-10 at this point, but he does have a good few prime years left to improve his legacy.
Click to expand...

It wasn't Lemieux & Jagr who drove those Cups...it was Lemieux & Francis...
 
BraveCanadian said:
He just decided not to most of the time then?
Francis / Trottier took the tough matchups. Be real here.
.
Click to expand...

It was well known that Lemieux was adverse to defensive play, but he's the one who went to Scotty Bowman during the Washington series & suggested the left wing lock.

I'm trying to understand how Lemieux on Bourque was a lesser matchup even though Mario made him look a fool.

Trots was a third liner by that point. Francis did get tough matchups when Lemieux went down but Mario drew the tough assignments.
 
edog37 said:
I used to think it was a diluted league but now not so much. The talent level is so much higher these days. You drop Crosby back in the pre-expansion era & he would crush those guys. Those guys wouldn't have the stamina to keep up with him. Now you have talent from all over the world which wasn't the case back then. I'm stating that Crosby's body of work is more impressive because he plays in a far greater diversified league.
Click to expand...

Yes if you take Crosby from today with all the improvements as an athlete no **** he'd beat all those guys, but if you give him the standards of the time I'm not so sure he'd be head and shoulders better than the other candidates for top 5 and 10 all time
 
Ageless66 said:
4 first team at center is very elite. I don't really care about 2nd team all stars so I don't look at those on resumes. For comparison lemieux "only" has 5 first team all stars at center and he is a de facto top 4 player ever
Click to expand...

So you don't actually care you're just trying to find the right angle to push Crosby
 
edog37 said:
I used to think it was a diluted league but now not so much. The talent level is so much higher these days. You drop Crosby back in the pre-expansion era & he would crush those guys.
Click to expand...
Of all people, Crosby, with his history of injuries? More likely, he would get crushed. Without a helmet, with Lindsay and Howe laying two-handers at him, he wouldn't last a week.

Those guys wouldn't have the stamina to keep up with him.
Click to expand...
Shifts were two minutes long then, not 45 seconds. So I wouldn't be so sure.

Now you have talent from all over the world which wasn't the case back then. I'm stating that Crosby's body of work is more impressive because he plays in a far greater diversified league.
Click to expand...
Pre-1960 there were very few people outside NHL who could compete against the pros. Bobrov, Guryshev, a couple of others... In the 60s Soviet hockey made major advances.

It was well known that Lemieux was adverse to defensive play, but he's the one who went to Scotty Bowman during the Washington series & suggested the left wing lock.
Click to expand...
Whattahell? Source, please?

I'm trying to understand how Lemieux on Bourque was a lesser matchup even though Mario made him look a fool.
Click to expand...
I think he is saying that Francis and Trottier were tasked with containing the opposition's biggest stars. Not Lemieux.

Trots was a third liner by that point. Francis did get tough matchups when Lemieux went down but Mario drew the tough assignments.
Click to expand...
That's what third-liners do. Play against the opposition's biggest offensive threats.

but remember, original 6 fan bases feel a special level of entitlement...a big reason I can't stand any of those teams...
Click to expand...
OK then. Off you go.
 
Last edited:
Revelation said:
Crosby on his best day couldn't hold Messier's ego, come on
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you.


Messier was never, at any point, the best player in the league. Let alone for a long stretch like Crosby has been. But hey, he played forever during the highest scoring era so some people think he's in the same class as Howe, what a joke. Messier doesn't even belong in the top 20.

Both his Hart wins were a complete joke. The first one should have went to Gretzky, who easily outscored him in 6 less games. The second was an even bigger joke, he was outscored 131 to 107 by Lemieux, who played in 15 fewer games. Not to mention he finished 6th in scoring. Hell, his own teammate was only 5 points behind him and that was defenseman Brian Leetch!
 
Last edited:
If you have a history of concussions how does that make you injury prone to "two-handers" from Gordie Howe? Is he going to repeatedly hit Crosby in the head with his stick? Is that supposed to be the really awesome amazing hockey that today's loser players aren't capable of doing?
 
Don'tcry4mejanhrdina said:
Fixed it for you.


Messier was never, at any point, the best player in the league. Let alone for a long stretch like Crosby has been. But hey, he played forever during the highest scoring era so some people think he's in the same class as Howe, what a joke. Messier doesn't even belong in the top 20.

Both his Hart wins were a complete joke. The first one should have went to Gretzky, who easily outscored him in 6 less games. The second was an even bigger joke, he was outscored 131 to 107 by Lemieux, who played in 15 fewer games. Not to mention he finished 6th in scoring. Hell, his own teammate was only 5 points behind him and that was defenseman Brian Leetch!
Click to expand...

His first one should have gone to Ray Bourque. If I remember right, the voters from Edmonton deliberately left Bourque off their ballots completely, which game Messier the narrow win.

Messier did a lot of things beyond scoring. If he was even close to Greztky or Lemieux in scoring, he may have actually had the better season.
 
edog37 said:
It was well known that Lemieux was adverse to defensive play, but he's the one who went to Scotty Bowman during the Washington series & suggested the left wing lock.

I'm trying to understand how Lemieux on Bourque was a lesser matchup even though Mario made him look a fool.

Trots was a third liner by that point. Francis did get tough matchups when Lemieux went down but Mario drew the tough assignments.
Click to expand...

Dude stop. Mario was not great defensively.

Francis was their matchup center.
 
The commitment to fitness and health by a guy like Crosby is eons ahead of players from the 80's glory days, get real. Time machine Messier to now and Crosby would destroy Messier, as would many other guys in the league.
 
I didn't know that Lemieux couldn't tie his own skates, so wandered on over to his Wikipedia page only to discover that he contributed to both Clinton and Trump in their pursuit of the presidency (though separate campaigns).

I don't necessarily are about politics, just thought that was odd.
 
Sentinel said:
Of all people, Crosby, with his history of injuries? More likely, he would get crushed. Without a helmet, with Lindsay and Howe laying two-handers at him, he wouldn't last a week.
Click to expand...

Yeah he would & he would give it right back. A lot of guys on here say Crosby hands cheap shots out, what do you think Howe & Lindsay were doing? Plus Crosby is about Howe's size & towers over Lindsay...

Sentinel said:
Shifts were two minutes long then, not 45 seconds. So I wouldn't be so sure.
Click to expand...

They are shorter now because the game is much faster & all the players are extremely well conditioned. Coaches want a certain tempo. Howe could never keep up in today's game..

Sentinel said:
Pre-1960 there were very few people outside NHL who could compete against the pros. Bobrov, Guryshev, a couple of others... In the 60s Soviet hockey made major advances.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Those guys played against a smaller talent pool than today's players.

Sentinel said:
Whattahell? Source, please?

I lived it but here you go...

https://books.google.com/books?id=5...onepage&q=lemieux told bowman to trap&f=false

It's a well known fact that Lemieux could not stand Bowman & rode him out of town...
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom