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Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

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BraveCanadian said:
I think Selke might be a liiiittle rich.
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Not really. When Mario decided a game was over, there wasn't much the other team could do about it. His defensive play in both the '91 & '92 Cup Finals was stellar. Plus, he scared the hell out of opponents just by being out there...
 
Soundwave said:
No one is touching Gretzky for GOAT.

Or even Jordan IMO, James is a lot recency bias and hype, once the dust settles he's quite far behind Jordan. Jordan has 6 NBA championships as the no.1 option with 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, the highest scoring average in league history.

LeBron has 3 titles with 3 Finals MVPs and 1 scoring title. Yes he rebounds and gets assists, but that doesn't make up for the glaring disparity there.
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James just passed Majic for most triple-doubles in the finals.

James passed Jordan in playoff points, and triple doubles.

James carried a team from 3-1 down to win (only time in history)

James has 7 straight finals appearances (only player to do it)
 
Soundwave said:
No one is touching Gretzky for GOAT.

Or even Jordan IMO, James is a lot recency bias and hype, once the dust settles he's quite far behind Jordan. Jordan has 6 NBA championships as the no.1 option with 6 Finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, the highest scoring average in league history.

LeBron has 3 titles with 3 Finals MVPs and 1 scoring title. Yes he rebounds and gets assists, but that doesn't make up for the glaring disparity there.
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Judging basketball players on scoring titles shows your knowledge of the game. Anyone can lead the league if they shoot enough, there is much more to basketball than just the guy who puts it in the hoop.
 
Another thing not mentioned when comparing players of today to those in the past...is how much talent there is in the league today compared to the past. Today we expect 3rd and 4th line players to put up good numbers. A lot of teams have 3-4 scoring lines. Back then 3rd and 4th lines didn't even compare to the guys in the top 6. So when people say Crosby has to dominate over his peers the way Gretzky did...thats not taken into account.

Nor is the open space to do whatever he wants...goalies...etc. So its a pointless debate.

If we are gonna judge players based on stats alone...Joe montana will be the 50th best QB 5 years down the road. Passing league now and he's getting passed up by multiple qbs each year.
 
I think it is difficult for us to judge where Crosby fits into the all-time greats list due to recency bias. Once his career is over it will be much easier to have the proper sense of historical context.
 
Wild-Sabres said:
Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Orr
Crosby

I can't think of anyone I would solidly put ahead of him at #5.
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Crosby has certainly entered the conversation for 5th all time, but I'm not sure he's there just yet. He'll probably be there by the end of his career, but not yet for me.

He's in the mix for the next best center after Lemieux, but he's in tough...
Jean Beliveau - 7 x top-3 in points, 2 x hart, 10 x all-star team
Howie Morenz - 2 x point leader, 3 x hart
Stan Mikita - 4 x point leader, 2 x Hart, 8 x all-star team

Then you have the top wingers....
Bobby Hull - 3 x point leader, 7 x goal leader, 2 x Hart, 12 x All-star team
Jaromir Jagr - 5 x point leader, 3 x ted Lindsay, 8 x all-star team
Maurice Richard - 5 x goal leader, 1 x hart, 14 x all-star team

Then the defensemen....
Doug Harvey - 7 x Norris, 11 x all-star team
Ray Bourque - 5 x Norris, 19 x all-star team
Eddie Shore - 4 x Hart, 8 x all-star team
Niklas Lidstrom - 7 x Norris, 12 x all-star team

Then the goalies....
Dominik Hasek - 2 x hart, 6 x vezina, 6 x all-star team
Patrick Roy - 3 x vezina, 6 x all-star team

Where does Crosby fit among that list of players? I think a case could be made for anywhere from first to last.
 
edog37 said:
Not really. When Mario decided a game was over, there wasn't much the other team could do about it.
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He just decided not to most of the time then?

His defensive play in both the '91 & '92 Cup Finals was stellar.
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Francis / Trottier took the tough matchups. Be real here.

Plus, he scared the hell out of opponents just by being out there...
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At least this part is true.
 
Dreakmur said:
Crosby has certainly entered the conversation for 5th all time, but I'm not sure he's there just yet. He'll probably be there by the end of his career, but not yet for me.

He's in the mix for the next best center after Lemieux, but he's in tough...
Jean Beliveau - 7 x top-3 in points, 2 x hart, 10 x all-star team
Howie Morenz - 2 x point leader, 3 x hart
Stan Mikita - 4 x point leader, 2 x Hart, 8 x all-star team

Then you have the top wingers....
Bobby Hull - 3 x point leader, 7 x goal leader, 2 x Hart, 12 x All-star team
Jaromir Jagr - 5 x point leader, 3 x ted Lindsay, 8 x all-star team
Maurice Richard - 5 x goal leader, 1 x hart, 14 x all-star team

Then the defensemen....
Doug Harvey - 7 x Norris, 11 x all-star team
Ray Bourque - 5 x Norris, 19 x all-star team
Eddie Shore - 4 x Hart, 8 x all-star team
Niklas Lidstrom - 7 x Norris, 12 x all-star team

Then the goalies....
Dominik Hasek - 2 x hart, 6 x vezina, 6 x all-star team
Patrick Roy - 3 x vezina, 6 x all-star team

Where does Crosby fit among that list of players? I think a case could be made for anywhere from first to last.
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Not one of those resumes makes crosbys look inferior. And crosby is only 29. He will pass all of those players before he retired and has passed majority of them anyways
 
Ageless66 said:
Not one of those resumes makes crosbys look inferior. And crosby is only 29. He will pass all of those players before he retired and has passed majority of them anyways
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Actually, I would disagree. It is obvious that some of them just might be superior to Crosby's resumé...at the moment. Crosby still has lots of time to surpass them. Currently, it would be difficult to justify Crosby above every player on that list.
 
Ageless66 said:
Not one of those resumes makes crosbys look inferior. And crosby is only 29. He will pass all of those players before he retired and has passed majority of them anyways
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So you agree with my post. :)

He doesn't look inferior to those players.... but nor does he look superior. As I said, he could reasonably fit anywhere on that list.

He likely will pass many of them, if he hasn't already, but if he retired tomorrow, where would he rank?
 
Dreakmur said:
Crosby has certainly entered the conversation for 5th all time, but I'm not sure he's there just yet. He'll probably be there by the end of his career, but not yet for me.

He's in the mix for the next best center after Lemieux, but he's in tough...
Jean Beliveau - 7 x top-3 in points, 2 x hart, 10 x all-star team
Howie Morenz - 2 x point leader, 3 x hart
Stan Mikita - 4 x point leader, 2 x Hart, 8 x all-star team

Then you have the top wingers....
Bobby Hull - 3 x point leader, 7 x goal leader, 2 x Hart, 12 x All-star team
Jaromir Jagr - 5 x point leader, 3 x ted Lindsay, 8 x all-star team
Maurice Richard - 5 x goal leader, 1 x hart, 14 x all-star team

Then the defensemen....
Doug Harvey - 7 x Norris, 11 x all-star team
Ray Bourque - 5 x Norris, 19 x all-star team
Eddie Shore - 4 x Hart, 8 x all-star team
Niklas Lidstrom - 7 x Norris, 12 x all-star team

Then the goalies....
Dominik Hasek - 2 x hart, 6 x vezina, 6 x all-star team
Patrick Roy - 3 x vezina, 6 x all-star team

Where does Crosby fit among that list of players? I think a case could be made for anywhere from first to last.
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Jagr, Lidstrom, Hull, Esposito, I get that. Some of the others have 1/3 the resume of Crosby and played less competitive eras.
 
edog37 said:
Not really. When Mario decided a game was over, there wasn't much the other team could do about it. His defensive play in both the '91 & '92 Cup Finals was stellar. Plus, he scared the hell out of opponents just by being out there...
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This...my 80's caps teams had Great defenses and Mario made them all look ridiculous......he was absolutely terrifying in a way you just can't understand unless you watched him consistently. As crazy as his numbers are, even considering cancer and a back so bad he needed help putting on skates, doesn't tell the whole story. Dude was bad.
 
bambamcam4ever said:
Judging basketball players on scoring titles shows your knowledge of the game. Anyone can lead the league if they shoot enough, there is much more to basketball than just the guy who puts it in the hoop.
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It's when you score the points in basketball. Jordan is the greatest closer ever.
 
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