Should Toronto trade away our 1st to ditch Murray?

[Kiwi]

We're in the middle of the most important playoff run this team has had in decades, how are people thinking about the offseason lol

Because this isn't game day and we can think of more than one thing at a time?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Should we trade away the 1st for someone to pick up Murray's contract?

 

[leafsfan5]

Because this isn't game day and we can think of more than one thing at a time?

But the offseason decisions are inherently shaped by what happens these next few weeks

 

[francis246]

Woll needs waivers and Samsonov has become our starter

I'm not losing either one of them for that bandaid

He's got to go

Carry 3 goaltenders. Why do we need 2 extra dmen?

 

[tmlms13]

Robidas Island needs peeps.

Him and Muzzin can be roommates

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I believe even if the Bruins dip out of the playoffs in the first round the best that pick can be is 28th.

I'm almost certain You're wrong about that.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I'm almost certain You're wrong about that.

I mean I didn't look into it too hard but please tell me more. Not being sarcastic

 

[34]

Let’s worry about getting through Tampa here now.

Dubas will find a way to dump him after the Leafs win the Cup this season . (Fingers crossed lol)

 

[Byron Bitz]

The first is Boston 1st round pick so it is extremely low

It will be $4.687m in cap savings (but keep in mind Kerfoot is probably gone so that will be $3.5m off the books)

I'd like to resign ROR and Acciari for sure

Should we trade away the 1st for someone to pick up Murray's contract?

Why would it cost more than our deal with Ottawa when it’s now a smaller contract to move than when we acquired it?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I mean I didn't look into it too hard but please tell me more. Not being sarcastic

I can't say for but it obviously goes 1-16 and then I think It's the order in which you are elminated from the playoffs.

So if somehow Boston was the first team elminated, they pick would be 17th.

 

[Sypher04]

I can't say for but it obviously goes 1-16 and then I think It's the order in which you are elminated from the playoffs.

So if somehow Boston was the first team elminated, they pick would be 17th.

Pretty sure it’s all the teams eliminated in round 1 and 2 are pooled and ordered based on finish in the regular season standings. So, at best Boston pick could be 28th.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I can't say for but it obviously goes 1-16 and then I think It's the order in which you are elminated from the playoffs.

So if somehow Boston was the first team elminated, they pick would be 17th.

Boston won their division and was the presidents trophy winner.

 

[Sypher04]

View attachment 694058
Boston won their division and was the presidents trophy winner.

Interesting, they must have changed it fairly recently. I’m pretty sure they at least used to pool rounds 1&2 and take standings order. Effectively works out fairly similar overall and no difference for Boston

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Robidas Island needs peeps.

Precisely this.

Or could he not be sent down? (don't know if there's a NMC)

Anyway, enough with the trading 1st round picks, figure something else out.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The answer is easily no.

If it even comes down to the Leafs needing to cap dump him, it won't cost us our 1st or even a 2nd. The buyout is a better option than doing either of those things.

Or even just retaining another 50%. The goalie market sucks. You have Jarry, Korpisalo, and Hill plus a bunch of mid-30's goalies who, for the most part, are over the hill and are maybe going to enter the cheap backup carrousel for teams like the Rangers and Tampa or will just flat out retire. Otherwise, you long-shots like Nedeljkovic/Lyon/Stolarz who have never really looked promising outside of very brief stints.

Jarry, Korpisalo, and Hill are going to make solid bank and 2.3 mill is probably less than some of those inferior older goalies are going to make next year... So teams would have interest if it only costs them a mid-late round pick. Trade market is also fairly bare unless Boston is forced to move one of their two guys or Arizona decides to move Vejmelka. However in both of those cases, they'd likely need an external replacement so the market balance would remain unchanged.

2.3 mill in dead cap next year is not a huge deal when we will still have almost 18 mill to use (after Muzzin goes on LTIR or is dumped to a team like ARI for nothing since he will only have 2 mill in salary left after we pay his bonus) and most of our defense and top 9 is already signed with that. We could easily afford to bring back Samsonov, ROR, Acciari, Kampf, or whoever else we want to bring back and build out a pretty solid bottom 6 without even considering any of our cheap prospects or Euro UFA signings that may happen starting next week (Okulov is probably the only one who would crack our team outright but someone like Haman Aktell or Dronov could be a solid competitor for Timmins and we need to get someone who can do that).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

no more throwing away 1st rounders to get rid of someone. Use him on LTIR for all I care, send him to Robidas Island that was created by Lou.

We already don't have much assets; no need to dump him.

This post is so wrong that It's bordering on a straight up lie.

The tean hasn't traded a prospect of ANY significance in, 4 years unless you think Joey Anderson is that dude, and until this year hadn't traded any prospects in that time period.

They have 1st round picks in 2023, 2024, and the 2025 is top 10 protected, if the pick slides to 2026, It's 2026 who cares?

They are missing a couple 2nds and 3rds what are you talking about?

 

[ULF_55]

How much is $8 million worth?

Disregard the Cap for a moment, can he still play, or are you asking a team to give you $8mm in real money for something of value?

 

[Antropovsky]

Why would it cost more than our deal with Ottawa when it’s now a smaller contract to move than when we acquired it?

He also wasn't that bad. Just injury bug. If a team is rebuilding and needs a #1B short term goalie, he's a good low risk option for price and term.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I said move down 20 spots from Boston's 1st to Tampa's 2nd. I would make that trade to get rid of Murray so we can keep all 3 of O'Reilly, Schenn and Bunting or a Bunting equivalent. Now you might not like Bunting, and we could debate that, but having a 27 year old, 50 point LW guy or an equivalent cap hit player is worth much more then keeping 3 goalies, when Murray isn't good. Moving down 20 spots to keep a 50 point player is worth it.

Why are we keeping Bunting? That's not a question I would have asked this time last year, or coming into this year.

There was a time when I would have said, and did say we needed to keep him.

Then he started choosing to be an idiot, and he's suspended 3 games because he chose to be an idiot.

He's not needed

 

[SeaOfBlue]

This post is so wrong that It's bordering on a straight up lie.

The tean hasn't traded a prospect of ANY significance in, 4 years unless you think Joey Anderson is that dude, and until this year hadn't traded any prospects in that time period.

They have 1st round picks in 2023, 2024, and the 2025 is top 10 protected, if the pick slides to 2026, It's 2026 who cares?

They are missing a couple 2nds and 3rds what are you talking about?

I guess they are talking about picks?

Since Dubas has taken over he has selected in:
2/5 first rounds
5/5 2nd rounds
4/5 3rd rounds (but had 2 3rds in one year so really he made 5 picks)
4/5 4th rounds (but have actually made 6 picks in those rounds)
5/5 5th rounds
3/5 6th rounds (but 5 actual picks)
4/5 7th rounds (but 7 actual picks)

Young-ish NHLers he's traded away: Kapanen, Johnsson, Sandin, Dermott, Moore, Brown, Sparks, Malgin (also acquired him), Anderson (ish, but also acquired him), Leivo, Barabanov (also acquired him)...
Young-ish NHLers he has acquired: Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Timmins, Samsonov, Bunting
Prospects he's traded away: Durzi, Grundstrom, Abramov, Hallander (after also acquiring him), Douglas, Marchment (although he was fairly old at that point), Korshkov (also somewhat old), Lindgren, Dzierkals, Borgman, Rosen... And I scraped the barrel on some of those last ones. Other than the first two and maybe Abramov/Hallander (who were borderline top 15 prospects in our pool when they were moved), the rest were either busting or older depth guys in the AHL by the time we moved them.
Prospects brought in (outside of drafting): Kallgren, Steeves, Ellis, McMann, Kressler, and Petruzzelli... Not including ones he brought in as AGM like Holl and Moore.

Considering we are a competing team, not really seeing too much more given away than we have brought in, and this does not include drafting at all (Robertson, Knies, Holmberg, Kral, and Abruzzese all knocking on the door with a few others like Niemela, Hirvonen, Villeneuve not far behind).

 

[PromisedLand]

This post is so wrong that It's bordering on a straight up lie.

The tean hasn't traded a prospect of ANY significance in, 4 years unless you think Joey Anderson is that dude, and until this year hadn't traded any prospects in that time period.

They have 1st round picks in 2023, 2024, and the 2025 is top 10 protected, if the pick slides to 2026, It's 2026 who cares?

They are missing a couple 2nds and 3rds what are you talking about?

I guess they are talking about picks?

Since Dubas has taken over he has selected in:
2/5 first rounds
5/5 2nd rounds
4/5 3rd rounds (but had 2 3rds in one year so really he made 5 picks)
4/5 4th rounds (but have actually made 6 picks in those rounds)
5/5 5th rounds
3/5 6th rounds (but 5 actual picks)
4/5 7th rounds (but 7 actual picks)

Young-ish NHLers he's traded away: Kapanen, Johnsson, Sandin, Dermott, Moore, Brown, Sparks, Malgin (also acquired him), Anderson (ish, but also acquired him), Leivo, Barabanov (also acquired him)...
Young-ish NHLers he has acquired: Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Timmins, Samsonov, Bunting
Prospects he's traded away: Durzi, Grundstrom, Abramov, Hallander (after also acquiring him), Douglas, Marchment (although he was fairly old at that point), Korshkov (also somewhat old), Lindgren, Dzierkals, Borgman, Rosen... And I scraped the barrel on some of those last ones. Other than the first two and maybe Abramov/Hallander (who were borderline top 15 prospects in our pool when they were moved), the rest were either busting or older depth guys in the AHL by the time we moved them.
Prospects brought in (outside of drafting): Kallgren, Steeves, Ellis, McMann, Kressler, and Petruzzelli... Not including ones he brought in as AGM like Holl and Moore.

Considering we are a competing team, not really seeing too much more given away than we have brought in, and this does not include drafting at all (Robertson, Knies, Holmberg, Kral, and Abruzzese all knocking on the door with a few others like Niemela, Hirvonen, Villeneuve not far behind).

Context:
Matthews, Marner, Nylander will all get raises combined they will will be close enough to JT's cap hit when it comes off the books i.e. we are not "gaining" 11 AAV in cap space when JT is off the books. Approx: approx 2 to 3 AAV increases for both Matthews/Marner and abotu 3 to 4 AAV increase for Willy the range is about 7 AAV to 10 AAV in total; i.e. most of JT's AAV is gone towards paying for their raises.

Even if cap was to rise; you will be competing with other teams in the UFA market to fill the roster i.e. out bidding others just raises cap hit

players on the roster will require raises themselves: ex: Liljegren; etc.

You need cheap ELCs to come in and help out; which you can't do unless you have top picks in the draft.

Bottom Line: throwing away 1st rounder to get rid of Murray is not a good play

 

[ULF_55]

Bottom Line: throwing away 1st rounder to get rid of Murray is not a good play

Just for details and clarity:

1. The Toronto Maple Leafs' first-round pick went to the Chicago Blackhawks as the result of a trade on July 7, 2022, that sent a second-round pick in 2022 (38th overall) to Toronto in exchange for Petr Mrazek and this pick.[17]

So trading Murray in a similar move would not be trading a 1st. rounder for nothing.

Yeah, it would be nice to keep the very late (30ish) pick to use, likely to trade back for more picks, in the draft, but all the details of that transaction would have to be included, not just state "traded a 1st. to more Mrazek" and think that is the entire story.

If moving the 1st. with Murray lands O'Rielly, I'd be fine with it.

 

[Menzinger]

How much is $8 million worth?

Disregard the Cap for a moment, can he still play, or are you asking a team to give you $8mm in real money for something of value?

6* million technically (Ottawa covers 25% of salary as well as aav)

 

[TMLegend]

Whatever happens with Murray I'm sure Dubas will be lauded as a genius for it whichever angle they take. Provided he's still here if course.

 

[ULF_55]

6* million technically (Ottawa covers 25% of salary as well as aav)

I wondered about that.

But that's still a fair chunk of change unless he can play.

I think he'll play and be off and on IR and LTIR.

To bad he doesn't have signing bonuses.

How much retention for each round of the draft?
1st. rounder no retention
3rd. rounder 2024 1.6 retention
5th. rounder 2.6 retention
,,,