OT: Should Doug Armstrong get fired?

[AjaxManifesto]

I hate watching this team now.

Blow it up.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I hate watching this team now.

Blow it up.

Blow it up.

 

[Reality Czech]

Outside observer and neutral fan, I’ve followed stlouis pretty closely since they’re cup run. I regard Doug armstrong a top 10 likely top 5 GM in the league. It’s almost impossible to bat 1.000 as a gm in the nhl under a cap system. It’s kind of like baseball, you hit one out of 3 pitches as a baseball and your a hall of fame.

here is my critique:

drafting under Armstrong looks strong AF:
- Snuggerud, Neighbours, bokk (helped you get Faulk), R.Thomas and T.Thompson (helped you get RoR)

Trades
- Schenn trade was good, Buchnevich trade was awesome. I don’t see any glaring bad trades maybe small losses

Signings
- had to let go of Piet he was outbid by Vegas, I didn’t like the 3rd contract to binnington 6x6 as typically goalies decline fast once they get that 3rd contract but your in a bind when he helped you get a cup. hard to fault D.A. The kyrou and Thomas contracts seem overpriced based on play atm, but based on the seasons they had last year and they’re importance moving forward as key players, the contracts seem appropriate to me. Some onus lies on the players here to deliver.

D.A. Managed to put out the Tarasenko fire of wanting to be traded and retain a productive winger.

in conclusion he has done a very good job imho. He has made mistakes but like I mentioned above some mistakes are unavoidable.

Common sense and rational thought are not welcome in this thread or on this forum. You are dismissed.

I hate watching this team now.

Blow it up.

So stop watching. You've been a killjoy since DP57 left. No need to make yourself (and the rest of us) miserable.

 

[TheDizee]

I hate watching this team now.

Blow it up.

Same. Very unlikeable team. I supported losing years worse than this because the team was likeable. This team is not that.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I was thinking about team trajectory since the Cup win in 18/19. I can't say it has been all downhill. But the window is pretty much closed.

18/19 - Cup

19/20 - Started well, JBo illness, COVID, bubble playoffs, the team was ILL PREPARED, Petro leaves

20/21 - Playoff loss in 1st round to COL??? Tank wants OUT.

21/22 - High scoring season, sign Leddy, playoff loss in 2nd round to COL. Binny got hurt and COL was very good. No shame. Best season since the Cup win.

22/23 - Perron not re-signed, Leddy signed, big contracts for 18 and 25. Bipolar season start. Team psyche is fragile like an egg. Misery. I hate watching this team right now.

 

[TheDizee]

I was thinking about team trajectory since the Cup win in 18/19. I can't say it has been all downhill. But the window is pretty much closed.

18/19 - Cup

19/20 - Started well, JBo illness, COVID, bubble playoffs, the team was ILL PREPARED, Petro leaves

20/21 - Playoff loss in 1st round to COL??? Tank wants OUT.

21/22 - High scoring season, sign Leddy, playoff loss in 2nd round to COL. Binny got hurt and COL was very good. No shame. Best season since the Cup win.

22/23 - Perron not re-signed, Leddy signed, big contracts for 18 and 25. Bipolar season start. Team psyche is fragile like an egg. Misery. I hate watching this team right now.

If covid did not happen, that team probably wins the west in all honesty. Why the league decided to resume the season 6 months later is beyond stupid and the bubble was boring hockey.

 

[TruBlu]

There's no need to burn the team down. We're actually in a good spot to start stocking up prospects/picks at the TDL. ROR and Tanks value goes up by the day after the beginning of the new year. Our defenseman problem needs addressed in the offseason and we need to start piecing together a new core group. We can be right back in a new cup window in a few years if the right moves are made this season and offseason. I'm confident DA sees that as well. We are not in a position to make a hockey trade to shake things up, no coaching changes, etc. This season is a goner. On the plus side, although we'll be out of the running for the postseason, we'll have a lot of exciting stuff going on between the TDL and draft.

 

[TheDizee]

For all the people who said I was wrong or crazy. Not so crazy huh now.

He needs to go.

 

[PJJJP]

Great! We have Chiarelli waiting in the wings as Armstrong's right hand man, ready to step in and take charge of the franchise

 

[TheDizee]

Capitals’ Charlie Lindgren named NHL’s First Star of the Week

Capitals goaltender Charlie Lindgren earned his first career Star of the Week award after going 4-0-0 in net last week.

sports.yahoo.com

EVERYONE HE LETS GO IS A STAR AND EVERYONE HE SIGNS OR KEEPS IS A GIANT TURD. FIRE ARMSTRONG ALREADY

 

[TheDizee]

lol. hes completely jeopardized our future and in the present he ruined team chemistry by dumpster diving and shafting perron

this dude needs to be fired.

 

[Xerloris]

lol. hes completely jeopardized our future and in the present he ruined team chemistry by dumpster diving and shafting perron

this dude needs to be fired.

What you're saying is you want our GM to be Peter Chiarelli. Stop being a knee jerk reactionary. You're better than that. Or are you?

 

[TheDizee]

homestand from hell of 3-4 is mainly due to armstrong

 

[BlueSeal]

he ruined team chemistry

Absolutely agree with this.

 

[LogosBlue]

I was thinking about team trajectory since the Cup win in 18/19. I can't say it has been all downhill. But the window is pretty much closed.

18/19 - Cup

19/20 - Started well, JBo illness, COVID, bubble playoffs, the team was ILL PREPARED, Petro leaves

20/21 - Playoff loss in 1st round to COL??? Tank wants OUT.

21/22 - High scoring season, sign Leddy, playoff loss in 2nd round to COL. Binny got hurt and COL was very good. No shame. Best season since the Cup win.

22/23 - Perron not re-signed, Leddy signed, big contracts for 18 and 25. Bipolar season start. Team psyche is fragile like an egg. Misery. I hate watching this team right now.

Also, reflecting back over this time period, i can't remember another general manager who dismantled the roster of a cup team quite so fast and methodically. Our current roster is a shadow of the 18/19 cup run.

 

[Xerloris]

Also, reflecting back over this time period, i can't remember another general manager who dismantled the roster of a cup team quite so fast and methodically. Our current roster is a shadow of the 18/19 cup run.

Ya man, I can't believe Armstrong forced Jbo to have a heart attack and retire, then he forced Steen to get a back injury and retire, then he forced Gunnerson to get a knee injury and retire, then he forced Bozak to get f***ing old and useless and retire and then he told AP that we were not going to even offer him the biggest contract in team history and to go f*** himself in free agency. f*** that guy for doing all of that to this team.

 

[Ranksu]

All went down after Pietro let go. Bad moves after bad moves by Army.

Send Army to Siperia.

 

[TK 421]

I like Doug Armstrong even though the currently constructed defense sucks. I want him in charge of the retool and I'm excited to see what returns he can get for our UFA's.

That being said... if he trades for Chychrun I will get a pitchfork and join the angry mob.

 

[LogosBlue]

Ya man, I can't believe Armstrong forced Jbo to have a heart attack and retire, then he forced Steen to get a back injury and retire, then he forced Gunnerson to get a knee injury and retire, then he forced Bozak to get f***ing old and useless and retire and then he told AP that we were not going to even offer him the biggest contract in team history and to go f*** himself in free agency. f*** that guy for doing all of that to this team.

Your right Xerloris, DA had nothing to do with our current situation:

Alex Petrangelo - #1 D-man, walks for nothing
Joel Edmundson - #3 D-man, traded to Car. with a first
Vince Dunn - #3 D-man given to the Kraken

Pat Maroon - 4th line grinder - heart & soul guy - Let walk for nothing - won two more cups
David Perron - 1st line sniper - Let walk for nothing
Zach Sanford - Traded for Brown who is a waste of ice time (and shouldn't have a spot on an NHL roster)
Jaden Swartz - Top 6 forward - Let walk for nothing

And here is the thing that gets me. When looking at UFA's that he let walk, there wasn't much salary difference or term difference in price/years. And DA made other moves that could have covered the difference. Also, I didn't want to give Petro a FNT but when you hand them out like candy to lesser or inferior players, i got a problem with that. All these moves / non-moves did not work out in our favor.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Your right Xerloris, DA had nothing to do with our current situation:

Alex Petrangelo - #1 D-man, walks for nothing
Joel Edmundson - #3 D-man, traded to Car. with a first
Vince Dunn - #3 D-man given to the Kraken

Pat Maroon - 4th line grinder - heart & soul guy - Let walk for nothing - won two more cups
David Perron - 1st line sniper - Let walk for nothing
Zach Sanford - Traded for Brown who is a waste of ice time (and shouldn't have a spot on an NHL roster)
Jaden Swartz - Top 6 forward - Let walk for nothing

And here is the thing that gets me. When looking at UFA's that he let walk, there wasn't much salary difference or term difference in price/years. And DA made other moves that could have covered the difference. Also, I didn't want to give Petro a FNT but when you hand them out like candy to lesser or inferior players, i got a problem with that. All these moves / non-moves did not work out in our favor.

I'm going to say this as someone who both agrees and disagrees with decisions Army has made.

Letting Pietrangelo walk-Disagree with Army
This is probably the worst thing on the board you said.

Trading Edmundson and Bokk for Faulk- Agree
Faulk was and is the Better player currently, acting like Bokk is done kind of big loss is funny, dude is a failure as a prospect.

Dunn- disagree with Army
Krug should have been left exposed, I don't see Seattle picking Krug in the expansion draft.

Maroon- ehhh
I would have loved to have him back, but he went to a stacked Tampa Bay team.

Perron-disagree with Army
We should have found a way to keep him.

Sanford- this is a joke right?
Dude was hated by almost everyone here, we all wanted him and his contract gone, we got what we wanted.

Schwartz(my favorite player) - not our choice
Schwartz was still grieving from the loss of his father, was reported not even wanting to come back to playing hockey. He played out his contract, and signed a deal close to home to be closer to family.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We were going to lose a good player to Seattle, no matter what we did. Army tried to trade Dunn, we were only being offered a 3rd, so Army decided losing Dunn was better than losing 2 players and only getting a 3rd.

 

[BrokenFace]

I wouldn't fire Armstrong. I think people are forgetting that our cup win came at the tail end of our window, not the start. We were an older team that won a cup then correctly made compete-now decisions. I don't like that AP wasn't resigned, but we all have our opinions about that. We were doubling down on an older core right as covid stalled the cap. Now we're at the end of that window and need to adjust, and I think that was inevitable by now no matter who was running things. Despite all this, we've still been drafting and developing well and we haven't been dealing 1st round picks every year for half-solutions. I also look around the league and see a lot of incompetence from a lot of front offices. Who would we all even feel happy with as a replacement for Army?

The normal cycle is for teams to suck, get better via the draft and extra cap space, commit cap money to the better players while contending, then regress as those players get older and the draft picks get later/traded. No team is immune to this and firing a successful GM because older players on big contracts are finally regressing is a mistake IMO. Especially when that GM has been doing well adding young players with late 1st round picks.

The only teams that contend nearly every year for a decade have multiple future HoFers on their roster. Army made us one of those teams, and got us a cup, with Pietro being the closest thing we had to a HoFer. My preference would be to give him a chance to do some rebuilding rather than someone else. Lots of GMs can't even get the suck and improve through the draft part right.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I wouldn't fire Armstrong. I think people are forgetting that our cup win came at the tail end of our window, not the start. We were an older team that won a cup then correctly made compete-now decisions. I don't like that AP wasn't resigned, but we all have our opinions about that. We were doubling down on an older core right as covid stalled the cap. Now we're at the end of that window and need to adjust, and I think that was inevitable by now no matter who was running things. Despite all this, we've still been drafting and developing well and we haven't been dealing 1st round picks every year for half-solutions. I also look around the league and see a lot of incompetence from a lot of front offices. Who would we all even feel happy with as a replacement for Army?

The normal cycle is for teams to suck, get better via the draft and extra cap space, commit cap money to the better players while contending, then regress as those players get older and the draft picks get later/traded. No team is immune to this and firing a successful GM because older players on big contracts are finally regressing is a mistake IMO. Especially when that GM has been doing well adding young players with late 1st round picks.

The only teams that contend nearly every year for a decade have multiple future HoFers on their roster. Army made us one of those teams, and got us a cup, with Pietro being the closest thing we had to a HoFer. My preference would be to give him a chance to do some rebuilding rather than someone else. Lots of GMs can't even get the suck and improve through the draft part right.

100%.

 

[Majorityof1]

I have been highly critical of several Armstrong decisions. I have been very concerned about how he left Dallas in a huge hole. I am still concerned about that. I have never wanted him fired though. He definitely earned a ton of slack for the cup win.

However, given where we are now, he has to have a short leash. He has never needed to fully rebuild, or severely retool a team. He is great at pushing a good team to great. He is unparralleled at extending the window of a good team. However, those type of moves eventually catch up to you. He left Dallas in a piss poor stater by doing so. I am very, very worried about what he does with this team.

We are not a good team that needs a little push to become great. We are an ok team that is too severely flawed to become great without a serious re-working. I have never seen Army do that. He has earned his chance to try, but we have to be mindful of the possibility that it just isn't in his skillset to do so. I don't want to give him 3-4 years to dig us into a deep hole because he won the cup once here.

 

[Frenzy31]

I have been highly critical of several Armstrong decisions. I have been very concerned about how he left Dallas in a huge hole. I am still concerned about that. I have never wanted him fired though. He definitely earned a ton of slack for the cup win.

However, given where we are now, he has to have a short leash. He has never needed to fully rebuild, or severely retool a team. He is great at pushing a good team to great. He is unparralleled at extending the window of a good team. However, those type of moves eventually catch up to you. He left Dallas in a piss poor stater by doing so. I am very, very worried about what he does with this team.

We are not a good team that needs a little push to become great. We are an ok team that is too severely flawed to become great without a serious re-working. I have never seen Army do that. He has earned his chance to try, but we have to be mindful of the possibility that it just isn't in his skillset to do so. I don't want to give him 3-4 years to dig us into a deep hole because he won the cup once here.

I would say prior to going into the cup year, he had competely restructured the team of the past couple of seasons. We retooled completely and moved away from the Backes/Staz group after getting to the Western Conference Finals.

He moved Shatty/Staz at the deadline for assets. He added key pieces to the team via trade - Schenn/ROR as he moved onto Tarasenko, Schwartz core.

I think he has done a great job of identifying NHL talent in bargain shopping. I think this team is in a much better place the Dallas was when he left. We have real solid young talent is Thomas/Kyrou. We are not in the bottom 10 any more for prospects, despite constantly drafting in the bottom 10 of the first round.

Remember, we missed the playoffs the season after we traded for Schenn. And that was with a very good team, including Pie.....

I think you are expecting him to not move ROR/Tarasenko and retool/rebuild. I think we need to see what he does at the trade deadline, what moves he makes at the draft, and how he addresses the team next year.