OT: Should Doug Armstrong get fired?

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Last year the Red Wings were 28th in xGA at 5 on 5. The Blues were 29th. The Wings were 31st in scoring chances against while the Blues were 27th. The gap was better for shots against (we were 23rd and they were 30th) and high danger chances (we were 22nd and they were 32nd).

We weren't as bad as the Wings defensively, but we weren't a good defensive team. And our improvement on the blueline happened to be a Red Wing last season. Playing behind a better team should help him, but I'm not remotely confident that his play was all on the D.

His GSAA at 5 on 5 was -10.35 and his goals saved above expected was -11.45 through just 31 games. He faced fewer rush attempts per 60 than Binner or Husso last year (80th most in the NHL, which is below the average) and his average goal distance was middle of the pack. He was still genuinely bad when you control for the quality of shots faced.

Goalies fall off hard in their mid 30s all the time. Halak was a .920 backup in Boston until he was suddenly .905 in his final year there as a 35 year old. Khudobin was a .930 backup who then took the Stars on a run to the final in 2020. The next year he sported a .905 at 34 and then last year he was a disaster when he wasn't on the IR.

I'm hopeful that last year was a one off on a bad team, but I wouldn't bet a ton of money on it. A healthy bounce back from last year could very well be him playing .900-.905 hockey, which isn't all that good.

Red Wings fan here with the eye test stats. Wings played their worst games of the season with Greiss in net. I am not sure if he was unpopular in the locker room OR if they had total confidence in him to bail them out, but almost every game he was the starter were the Wings 'no effort' games. They literally let up and never tried or hustled. It got so bad that I stopped watching Wings games where Greiss started, but not because I didn't have faith in him. He's definitely lost a step from his prime but he still plays well and can stand on his head from time to time.

He may not be better than Husso, but he shouldn't challenge Binny for the starter role and maybe that will help Binny stay in the correct headspace this year.

Greiss behind an NHL defense and Husso on the Wings is going to give a great assessment of both goalies.

 

[Brian39]

goaltending is always a concern. it can sink a team fast. Binner had a very lousy season last year and Chuckie & Husso saved his bacon. We are not close to a playoff team otherwise.

Greiss sucks ass and is a dumpster dive move. This will be another Chad Johnson. Shame on Army for letting Chuckie go.

Husso bailed out the team. Lindgren played very well when here, but he didn't make anything close to the number of appearances needed to save anyone's bacon. If we had simply forfeited each of Lindgren's appearances, the Blues would have finished with 99 points and finished as the top Wild Card team.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Husso bailed out the team. Lindgren played very well when here, but he didn't make anything close to the number of appearances needed to save anyone's bacon. If we had simply forfeited each of Lindgren's appearances, the Blues would have finished with 99 points and finished as the top Wild Card team.

That’s not even turkey bacon!

 

[Reality Czech]

Husso bailed out the team. Lindgren played very well when here, but he didn't make anything close to the number of appearances needed to save anyone's bacon. If we had simply forfeited each of Lindgren's appearances, the Blues would have finished with 99 points and finished as the top Wild Card team.

Just fyi, you're arguing with a parody account.

 

[BlueSeal]

Husso bailed out the team. Lindgren played very well when here, but he didn't make anything close to the number of appearances needed to save anyone's bacon. If we had simply forfeited each of Lindgren's appearances, the Blues would have finished with 99 points and finished as the top Wild Card team.

The truth on Chucky Sideburns is we will never know. His starts should have given him more opportunity here. He was the right guy at the right time and that’s when magic happens. How do we not know that he could have, as easily as he is being dismissed, could have been the guy who could have stopped the Avs when Husso absolutely failed? Chucky had everything at the right time - team had his back and played for him and his game was sound. I’ll take a reminder dialed in to the moment over whatever resume someone else has done before.

But that’s me. And argue or not, right or wrong, we’ll never know.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

The truth on Chucky Sideburns is we will never know. His starts should have given him more opportunity here. He was the right guy at the right time and that’s when magic happens. How do we not know that he could have, as easily as he is being dismissed, could have been the guy who could have stopped the Avs when Husso absolutely failed? Chucky had everything at the right time - team had his back and played for him and his game was sound. I’ll take a reminder dialed in to the moment over whatever resume someone else has done before.

But that’s me. And argue or not, right or wrong, we’ll never know.

Yeah but you'll get a sense this year since he's got a backup job. Will he rise to prominence and prove Dizee correct or will he become Oscar Dansk 2.0? We should know before Christmas.

 

[TheDizee]

when chucky sideburns is spitting out a .920 save pct behind a worst D than we have, you all will be made fools of

this was a bigger loss than perron. there is no substitute for good goaltending. we went welfare shopping and got a nice EBT card in Greiss.

welfare goaltending is NEVER the answer. we will pay the price.

 

[Meatball]

So, Dizee prophecy thread part 2?

Got it.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

when chucky sideburns is spitting out a .920 save pct behind a worst D than we have, you all will be made fools of

this was a bigger loss than perron. there is no substitute for good goaltending. we went welfare shopping and got a nice EBT card in Greiss.

welfare goaltending is NEVER the answer. we will pay the price.

It's welfare love section 8!

 

[Reality Czech]

when chucky sideburns is spitting out a .920 save pct behind a worst D than we have, you all will be made fools of

this was a bigger loss than perron. there is no substitute for good goaltending. we went welfare shopping and got a nice EBT card in Greiss.

welfare goaltending is NEVER the answer. we will pay the price.

It was amusing at first but every comedy bit has a shelf life. Time to find a new schtick.

 

[TK 421]

when chucky sideburns is spitting out a .920 save pct behind a worst D than we have, you all will be made fools of

this was a bigger loss than perron. there is no substitute for good goaltending. we went welfare shopping and got a nice EBT card in Greiss.

welfare goaltending is NEVER the answer. we will pay the price.

 

[oPlaiD]

Armstrong is a genius, he called a hit on Scandella's hip to clear up cap space without paying a pick to move him.

 

[TheDizee]

 

[Ranksu]

 

[TheDizee]

once again i nailed it months before it happened

never EVER f*** with leadership and team chemistry. and if you do, dont EVER reward one trick ponies and total lazy bums/leaderless cogs like Kyrou with a massive contract. armstrong will learn this the hard way

 

[TheDizee]

Keep the coach and fire the GM. The Gm is responsible for these idiotic deals and signings.

 

[Majorityof1]

tom stillman needs to make money so rebuilding or retooling is not in the blues interest..

but army needs to go, really bad asset manangement and contracts .. let all the heart and soul guys go.. Husso was a huge mistake letting him go ..

perron > leddy ..I dont care what handiness or what side he plays on leddy, saad, krug, accari etc all bruin and hawk cast offs and scrubs

everyone talking about how great this roster is, they are a conteder blah blah blah .. do these peope even watch other nhl games/teams..tommy boy blowing skome up the arse needing his post season revenue is all that is.. the blues roster is terrible and looks like a bottom feeder team, this is no surprise to me honestly. I was never one to think we almost beat colorado .. we were lucky to go the 6 games with them in my opinion as they outclassed us in all aspects of the game and will do so for at least another 4-5 years.

It is absolutely classless of you to attack Stillman and the Blues ownership group. They are funding a mid-market team to spend to the cap. So what if they need playoff revenue if it allows us to spend to the cap and try to be competitive. Is the ownership group supposed to lose millions so you can get high and bitch about how they are screwing up the rebuild? I don't know why they don't jump at that opportunity.

 

[Xerloris]

tom stillman needs to make money so rebuilding or retooling is not in the blues interest..

but army needs to go, really bad asset manangement and contracts .. let all the heart and soul guys go.. Husso was a huge mistake letting him go ..

perron > leddy ..I dont care what handiness or what side he plays on leddy, saad, krug, accari etc all bruin and hawk cast offs and scrubs

everyone talking about how great this roster is, they are a conteder blah blah blah .. do these peope even watch other nhl games/teams..tommy boy blowing skome up the arse needing his post season revenue is all that is.. the blues roster is terrible and looks like a bottom feeder team, this is no surprise to me honestly. I was never one to think we almost beat colorado .. we were lucky to go the 6 games with them in my opinion as they outclassed us in all aspects of the game and will do so for at least another 4-5 years.

Maybe you should tell us how cool you are because you like weed since your hockey comments seem to be a weak spot.

 

[Ranksu]

So eventually Army's moves start to show up result wise. When you breakdown enough leader group it will lost chemistry.

 

[Ranksu]

It is absolutely classless of you to attack Stillman and the Blues ownership group. They are funding a mid-market team to spend to the cap. So what if they need playoff revenue if it allows us to spend to the cap and try to be competitive. Is the ownership group supposed to lose millions so you can get high and bitch about how they are screwing up the rebuild? I don't know why they don't jump at that opportunity.

I don't know how long Stillman and other owners look where this team heading. We are rock bottom now. Ofc this early of season, but if something doesn't improve before Xmas there will be big moves.

Army should be in hot seat now. Team has downgrade every season after won Cup.

Well it's Army's team so full credit to him, build it and crash it down. It's just shame what we had is in million pieces. Absolutely shitshow.

 

[centipede2233]

Outside observer and neutral fan, I’ve followed stlouis pretty closely since they’re cup run. I regard Doug armstrong a top 10 likely top 5 GM in the league. It’s almost impossible to bat 1.000 as a gm in the nhl under a cap system. It’s kind of like baseball, you hit one out of 3 pitches as a baseball and your a hall of fame.

here is my critique:

drafting under Armstrong looks strong AF:
- Snuggerud, Neighbours, bokk (helped you get Faulk), R.Thomas and T.Thompson (helped you get RoR)

Trades
- Schenn trade was good, Buchnevich trade was awesome. I don’t see any glaring bad trades maybe small losses

Signings
- had to let go of Piet he was outbid by Vegas, I didn’t like the 3rd contract to binnington 6x6 as typically goalies decline fast once they get that 3rd contract but your in a bind when he helped you get a cup. hard to fault D.A. The kyrou and Thomas contracts seem overpriced based on play atm, but based on the seasons they had last year and they’re importance moving forward as key players, the contracts seem appropriate to me. Some onus lies on the players here to deliver.

D.A. Managed to put out the Tarasenko fire of wanting to be traded and retain a productive winger.

in conclusion he has done a very good job imho. He has made mistakes but like I mentioned above some mistakes are unavoidable.

 

[TheDizee]

Outside observer and neutral fan, I’ve followed stlouis pretty closely since they’re cup run. I regard Doug armstrong a top 10 likely top 5 GM in the league. It’s almost impossible to bat 1.000 as a gm in the nhl under a cap system. It’s kind of like baseball, you hit one out of 3 pitches as a baseball and your a hall of fame.

here is my critique:

drafting under Armstrong looks strong AF:
- Snuggerud, Neighbours, bokk (helped you get Faulk), R.Thomas and T.Thompson (helped you get RoR)

Trades
- Schenn trade was good, Buchnevich trade was awesome. I don’t see any glaring bad trades maybe small losses

Signings
- had to let go of Piet he was outbid by Vegas, I didn’t like the 3rd contract to binnington 6x6 as typically goalies decline fast once they get that 3rd contract but your in a bind when he helped you get a cup. hard to fault D.A. The kyrou and Thomas contracts seem overpriced based on play atm, but based on the seasons they had last year and they’re importance moving forward as key players, the contracts seem appropriate to me. Some onus lies on the players here to deliver.

D.A. Managed to put out the Tarasenko fire of wanting to be traded and retain a productive winger.

in conclusion he has done a very good job imho. He has made mistakes but like I mentioned above some mistakes are unavoidable.

that contract to kyrou was dumb to give, especially when you look at his numbers since the all star break last season.

armstrong was a fool to give Kyrou that.

 

[TheDizee]

fire him

 

[Mike Liut]

Without Army, we’d still be cup-less

 

[BlueDream]

Without Army, we’d still be cup-less

We can’t say that for sure.