OT: Should Doug Armstrong get fired?

[Bluesguru]

Didn't Scandella play hurt last year? And now he's going to be a 3rd pairing defenseman since we got Leddy now? It's all good IMO.

It would be ideal to move him only because we need to find ice time for Mikkola and Perunovich and the Blues could also use another righty defenseman in the mix as well. I think Bortuzzo is our 3rd best righty and that's it. Guys will be playing on their off side a lot this year.

 

[TheDizee]

Didn't Scandella play hurt last year? And now he's going to be a 3rd pairing defenseman since we got Leddy now? It's all good IMO.

It would be ideal to move him only because we need to find ice time for Mikkola and Perunovich and the Blues could also use another righty defenseman in the mix as well. I think Bortuzzo is our 3rd best righty and that's it. Guys will be playing on their off side a lot this year.

problem is hes paid like top 4 dman

same reason krug's contract sucks. hes paid like top 2 dman.

 

[Ranksu]

Wonder what team spend most of money in defense in NHL?

 

[Mohko]

Wonder what team spend most of money in defense in NHL?

Seems to be Boston with

DEFENSE (8 - $31,925,000)

Per CapFriendly

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Wonder what team spend most of money in defense in NHL?

1) Boston
2) Colorado
3) St. Louis
4) Nashville
5) Minnesota

 

[Louie the Blue]

Didn't Scandella play hurt last year? And now he's going to be a 3rd pairing defenseman since we got Leddy now? It's all good IMO.

It would be ideal to move him only because we need to find ice time for Mikkola and Perunovich and the Blues could also use another righty defenseman in the mix as well. I think Bortuzzo is our 3rd best righty and that's it. Guys will be playing on their off side a lot this year.

I get why people want to see Mikkola (speed, size), but at this point, I don't see him beyond what he is, which is maybe a bottom pairing guy if things go well. He hasn't shown anything other than that or a 7D. He's 26.

Perunovich needs more time to show what he can do. I think he can at least show he doesn't need to be sheltered with rolling 7 defensemen like he was in the POs. Once he does that, then it's a different story.

problem is hes paid like top 4 dman

same reason krug's contract sucks. hes paid like top 2 dman.

Krug's contract isn't even bad. It's that the collective composition of the top 4 is weird. I'd argue Krug and Faulk are performing at the levels we expect them to be performing at as is Leddy (he probably exceeded expectations after he was acquired). Parayko really hasn't performed at the level we've wanted him to (be a 100% replacement for Pietrangelo defensively).

 

[BlueSeal]

I get why people want to see Mikkola (speed, size), but at this point, I don't see him beyond what he is, which is maybe a bottom pairing guy if things go well. He hasn't shown anything other than that or a 7D. He's 26.

Perunovich needs more time to show what he can do. I think he can at least show he doesn't need to be sheltered with rolling 7 defensemen like he was in the POs. Once he does that, then it's a different story.

Krug's contract isn't even bad. It's that the collective composition of the top 4 is weird. I'd argue Krug and Faulk are performing at the levels we expect them to be performing at as is Leddy (he probably exceeded expectations after he was acquired). Parayko really hasn't performed at the level we've wanted him to (be a 100% replacement for Pietrangelo defensively).

Since the back injury Colt has never been the same. The guy we thought he would develop into isn’t to be.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Since the back injury Colt has never been the same. The guy we thought he would develop into isn’t to be.

Disagree. His mobility last year looked back to pre injury level. He doesn’t have offense we had hoped or mean streak we might like, but it’s not due to back.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Disagree. His mobility last year looked back to pre injury level. He doesn’t have offense we had hoped or mean streak we might like, but it’s not due to back.

Beginning of the year I disagree, but after the ASB he turned it on and everything looked to start clicking and his back looked good.

 

[The Note]

Since the back injury Colt has never been the same. The guy we thought he would develop into isn’t to be.

Depends on what your expectations were. Anyone hoping he would be some sort of Pronger-esque defenseman were always likely to be disappointed. I don’t view Parayko as highly as most on here but I think he’s towards the bottom of the list of concerns for this defense and how it’s constructed.

 

[BlueDream]

Since the back injury Colt has never been the same. The guy we thought he would develop into isn’t to be.

Well he’s a top pairing defenseman and was a major part of our Stanley Cup.

I get frustrated with him too, but he’s a grand slam of a 3rd round pick.

 

[abel17]

To be clear, I don't think he should go and it's not really debatable he's among the top 5-10 GMs in the game.

However, my problem with DA is he is almost always in a 'holding' pattern after a good season. I realize we're right up against the cap but that has been the case for a while though (although admittedly not quite to this extent).

We only see the elite DA after disappointing seasons.

2015-2016 to the WCF

2016-2017 99 pt season and 2nd round loss to the Predators in the playoffs. DA trades Reaves for Sundqvist and a 1st (Klostin) and makes a great trade for Schenn dumping Lehtera in the process.

2017-2018 we have another step back missing the playoffs and DA pulls off the ROR robbery and re-signs Perron at $4m AAV.

2018-2019 Cup Winner and he follows that up by trading for Faulk but I think he was hedging on Pietrangelo with the Faulk trade. That being said, the Faulk trade has been his most successful transaction after a 'good' season (realize this was more than a good season but labeling each season as successful or not based on preseason expectations for this exercise).

2019-2020 Elite regular season but can season can only be described as a disappointment following the bubble playoffs. Signs Krug in the offseason which was the aggressive BA I like to see but again, this move seemed to be a knee jerk reaction to Petro leaving.

2020-2021 Not good - rough regular season and sweep by the Avs. BA signs Saad and pulls off the the Buchnevich robbery. He was also aggressive in speculating on Logan Brown.

2021-2022 Good season - Blues seemed like the only team that could've beaten the Avs had Binner stayed healthy and he follows that up by re-signing Leddy, sign a backup goalie, Thomas extension. Don't see how the Blues do not take a step back next season which means I guess we should expect the elite, aggressive Army again next offseason.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

To be clear, I don't think he should go and it's not really debatable he's among the top 5-10 GMs in the game.

However, my problem with DA is he is almost always in a 'holding' pattern after a good season. I realize we're right up against the cap but that has been the case for a while though (although admittedly not quite to this extent).

We only see the elite DA after disappointing seasons.

2015-2016 to the WCF

2016-2017 99 pt season and 2nd round loss to the Predators in the playoffs. DA trades Reaves for Sundqvist and a 1st (Klostin) and makes a great trade for Schenn dumping Lehtera in the process.

2017-2018 we have another step back missing the playoffs and DA pulls off the ROR robbery and re-signs Perron at $4m AAV.

2018-2019 Cup Winner and he follows that up by trading for Faulk but I think he was hedging on Pietrangelo with the Faulk trade. That being said, the Faulk trade has been his most successful transaction after a 'good' season (realize this was more than a good season but labeling each season as successful or not based on preseason expectations for this exercise).

2019-2020 Elite regular season but can season can only be described as a disappointment following the bubble playoffs. Signs Krug in the offseason which was the aggressive BA I like to see but again, this move seemed to be a knee jerk reaction to Petro leaving.

2020-2021 Not good - rough regular season and sweep by the Avs. BA signs Saad and pulls off the the Buchnevich robbery. He was also aggressive in speculating on Logan Brown.

2021-2022 Good season - Blues seemed like the only team that could've beaten the Avs had Binner stayed healthy and he follows that up by re-signing Leddy, sign a backup goalie, Thomas extension. Don't see how the Blues do not take a step back next season which means I guess we should expect the elite, aggressive Army again next offseason.

This analysis needs to be weighed against what happened with the projected salary cap and what other contending teams did at the same time. Even this offseason, most of the serious contenders have gotten worse, which was a necessity as they dealt with a flat cap. In that regard, I don't think Armstrong's quiet offseasons reflect complacency as much as they reflect him being up against cap constraints.

You can call Perron a cap casualty, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. But the Blues have not been adding picks to ship away a roster player like Toronto has done, or put a well-liked productive first line player on waivers as Vegas has done. His cap maneuvers are a lot less dramatic.

 

[BlueSeal]

This analysis needs to be weighed against what happened with the projected salary cap and what other contending teams did at the same time. Even this offseason, most of the serious contenders have gotten worse, which was a necessity as they dealt with a flat cap. In that regard, I don't think Armstrong's quiet offseasons reflect complacency as much as they reflect him being up against cap constraints.

You can call Perron a cap casualty, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. But the Blues have not been adding picks to ship away a roster player like Toronto has done, or put a well-liked productive first line player on waivers as Vegas has done. His cap maneuvers are a lot less dramatic.

Truth.

My thing on Army is, since our window is open now that he should make the moves to maximize our chances. A holding pattern eats precious time. So far he’s done great but it’s true that he does his best work when the situation (read: his job) is desperate.

Saying that, he’s been a wizard with his moves and acquisitions.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Truth.

My thing on Army is, since our window is open now that he should make the moves to maximize our chances. A holding pattern eats precious time. So far he’s done great but it’s true that he does his best work when the situation (read: his job) is desperate.

Saying that, he’s been a wizard with his moves and acquisitions.

I can't imagine his job has ever been in jeopardy. He has done fantastic job.

 

[BlueSeal]

I can't imagine his job has ever been in jeopardy. He has done fantastic job.

I never said 'in jeopardy', I said 'desperate' as in, if this sort of thing continued, it would become in jeopardy. We've had a few situations like that, mainly 17-18 and being the worst team in December in 2019. THAT went epically well but imagine if we didn't pull it out and just didn't make the playoffs. They even went so far as to consider that season lost, which helped make so many things go right.

I think Army does a fine job, but he tends to step up his game and really pull rabbits out of the hat when the team starts suffering or when things go absolutely wayward. And it's not a stretch to make a correlation between the team's competitive ability level and his job.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I never said 'in jeopardy', I said 'desperate' as in, if this sort of thing continued, it would become in jeopardy. We've had a few situations like that, mainly 17-18 and being the worst team in December in 2019. THAT went epically well but imagine if we didn't pull it out and just didn't make the playoffs. They even went so far as to consider that season lost, which helped make so many things go right.

I think Army does a fine job, but he tends to step up his game and really pull rabbits out of the hat when the team starts suffering or when things go absolutely wayward. And it's not a stretch to make a correlation between the team's competitive ability level and his job.

I think you are wrong. I've never seen him make "desperate" moves. Most GMs would have blown up team in December 2018. Heck, I probably would have. But he didn't. He believed in the team he had built. He got rid of loser coach and crappy backup goalie and team caught fire. Because he was patient and didn't overreact we won the Cup.

 

[Reality Czech]

I never said 'in jeopardy', I said 'desperate' as in, if this sort of thing continued, it would become in jeopardy. We've had a few situations like that, mainly 17-18 and being the worst team in December in 2019. THAT went epically well but imagine if we didn't pull it out and just didn't make the playoffs. They even went so far as to consider that season lost, which helped make so many things go right.

I think Army does a fine job, but he tends to step up his game and really pull rabbits out of the hat when the team starts suffering or when things go absolutely wayward. And it's not a stretch to make a correlation between the team's competitive ability level and his job.

All a GM can really do is put his team in a position to succeed, it's not like the GM can win or lose games on his own. It's his job to get the pieces necessary to compete, but obviously up to the coach and players to make it work. I doubt there is any time Army is just sitting in his office thinking "Oh, I don't need to do anything right now." But it's not in our best interests to force a move, and it requires more patience than the average fan has. It might seem to you that he's in a "holding pattern" but there are so many factors that go into making moves. A lot of fans seem to think Army can just snap his fingers and acquire the player they want on a whim, but that isn't how it works.

 

[parliamentlite]

There are 32 teams. Multiply that by 4 and we get 128.

Scandella is currently the 95th highest paid defenseman in the NHL, which would by definition be a top 4 defenseman's salary.

I don't dislike Scandella. He's perfectly fine for what he is. The issues are how much he's paid is preventing the Blues from making better improvements to the defense and the role that he's best suited for ends up being a problem given how the top 4 collectively is constructed with Leddy and Krug.

Going to have to recalibrate these numbers after FA is over. Plus the need to compare teams that are in the mix vice those that aren't.

I'd love the Blues to shed that contract posthaste.

 

[parliamentlite]

To be clear, I don't think he should go and it's not really debatable he's among the top 5-10 GMs in the game.

However, my problem with DA is he is almost always in a 'holding' pattern after a good season. I realize we're right up against the cap but that has been the case for a while though (although admittedly not quite to this extent).

We only see the elite DA after disappointing seasons.

2015-2016 to the WCF

2016-2017 99 pt season and 2nd round loss to the Predators in the playoffs. DA trades Reaves for Sundqvist and a 1st (Klostin) and makes a great trade for Schenn dumping Lehtera in the process.

2017-2018 we have another step back missing the playoffs and DA pulls off the ROR robbery and re-signs Perron at $4m AAV.

2018-2019 Cup Winner and he follows that up by trading for Faulk but I think he was hedging on Pietrangelo with the Faulk trade. That being said, the Faulk trade has been his most successful transaction after a 'good' season (realize this was more than a good season but labeling each season as successful or not based on preseason expectations for this exercise).

2019-2020 Elite regular season but can season can only be described as a disappointment following the bubble playoffs. Signs Krug in the offseason which was the aggressive BA I like to see but again, this move seemed to be a knee jerk reaction to Petro leaving.

2020-2021 Not good - rough regular season and sweep by the Avs. BA signs Saad and pulls off the the Buchnevich robbery. He was also aggressive in speculating on Logan Brown.

2021-2022 Good season - Blues seemed like the only team that could've beaten the Avs had Binner stayed healthy and he follows that up by re-signing Leddy, sign a backup goalie, Thomas extension. Don't see how the Blues do not take a step back next season which means I guess we should expect the elite, aggressive Army again next offseason.

Don't disagree with the analysis but your proof seems to lie solely in what happened this offseason.
Who has been doing better in the W column while keeping the cap controlled?

 

[parliamentlite]

League wide, I think we've reached critical mass.

There's more dollars in cap overages than there are in cap allowances.

Somehow this doesn't hurt the Blues this year.

Wonder how that is....

(Edit: we will be picking in the top 10 next year at this rate)

 

[AjaxManifesto]

David Perron 'still in a little bit of shock' over 'hurtful' Blues departure

The 34-year-old could have seen himself living in St. Louis in the future, but doesn't know if that's possible anymore.

theathletic.com

I let my Athletic subscription lapse (didn't use it as much as I thought I would).

Anyone have a summary of the article?

DP57 is my favorite Blue. He was with the team 3 times, he liked being here, he helped us win the Cup, he was always a gamer, and he wanted to retire a Blue. $4.75m AAV over 2 years didn't seem like a huge ask by DP and his commitment was never in doubt these last seasons.

I'm still butthurt that DA did this to DP57. I think DA is a ruthless businessman. Any humanity is severed in order to maximize the deal and give him flexibility to move people at a moment's notice. Everyone is expendible. Some agree with this and say it is the way of professional sports and all business for that matter. Okay, probably so. But I also look at this as simple entertainment and part of that equation for me is the human side: loyalty, camaraderie, sportsmanship, team culture, organization culture, etc. My eyes are now seeing what has always been there and it's not as pretty as when I was blissfully ignorant. My love for this corporate franchise is not what it was. I guess I'm with DP...shocked and saddened. Call me naive, but the magic left the room for me.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

David Perron 'still in a little bit of shock' over 'hurtful' Blues departure

The 34-year-old could have seen himself living in St. Louis in the future, but doesn't know if that's possible anymore.

theathletic.com

I let my Athletic subscription lapse (didn't use it as much as I thought I would).

Anyone have a summary of the article?

DP57 is my favorite Blue. He was with the team 3 times, he liked being here, he helped us win the Cup, he was always a gamer, and he wanted to retire a Blue. $4.75m AAV over 2 years didn't seem like a huge ask by DP and his commitment was never in doubt these last seasons.

I'm still butthurt that DA did this to DP57. I think DA is a ruthless businessman. Any humanity is severed in order to maximize the deal and give him flexibility to move people at a moment's notice. Everyone is expendible. Some agree with this and say it is the way of professional sports and all business for that matter. Okay, probably so. But I also look at this as simple entertainment and part of that equation for me is the human side: loyalty, camaraderie, sportsmanship, team culture, organization culture, etc. My eyes are now seeing what has always been there and it's not as pretty as when I was blissfully ignorant. My love for this corporate franchise is not what it was. I guess I'm with DP...shocked and saddened. Call me naive, but the magic left the room for me.

Summary- DP sad. Wanted to be a Blue. Loved being a Blue. After $4mm offer last summer never got another offer. Understands its a business and why team prioritized defense, but thinks if team wanted to make it work they could have. But they didn't. And he's sad.

I get it. I loved DP too. I will miss him. Him signing in Detroit hit me like punch in gut. But we have kids ready to play in top 9 and needed to spend on D and flat cap sucks.

 

[Ranksu]

Frigging Marco Scandella is more important than Perron.

 

[BlueSeal]

Frigging Marco Scandella is more important than Perron.

Well, we do have kids ready to come up, so we don’t need DP but keep Scandella. Now watch people come attack me for -this- post.

Hell, I don’t care, we should have signed DP and chucked Scandella. There, I said it.