Should Carey Price’s number be retired?

[WeThreeKings]

Do you think quick isn't going to the hall of fame? I'd wager that he is.

He absolutely should

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Do you think quick isn't going to the hall of fame? I'd wager that he is.

He will. Deservedly so.

But he got a big boost on those teams.

 

[JianYang]

He will. Deservedly so.

But he got a big boost on those teams.

It seems to me that the poster was inferring that price is a product of media hype and that he is on the same level as quick who doesn't have the same hype.

Hype or no hype, quick is going to the hall of fame. I'm just saying that the spotlight or lack thereof won't make a difference here.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I see zero contradiction with saying that the Price is a HOF and that he shouldn't get his jersey retired. Cups mean a lot for the latter and shouldn't particularly matter for the former.

I have zero problem admitting that even if he'd won an extra three games (and subsequent Conn Smythe) against Tampa, 31 would go to the rafters. But he didn't, so it shouldn't.

If he’d won against Tampa, I’d have put him in that tier one group. Absolutely incredible run.

Makes me sad that we didn’t win a cup with him. At least he got Olympic gold.

 

[GrandBison]

You said Cournoyer and Savard are better. Tell me how.

Savard’s career is similar to Price in that it should’ve been better than it was but he got hurt. Price has better Vezina and Hart placements than Savard has Norris’s… I don’t think that it’s overwhelming towards Serge. Roadrunner? Great player but I don’t think his resume is as good. You think differently? Okay… why?

How is Price’s career not at least comparable to them?

If Price would have been better in 2021 final, he'd have a Conn-Smythe like Savard and Cournoyer (and Gainey).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If Price would have been better in 2021 final, he'd have a Conn-Smythe like Savard and Cournoyer (and Gainey).

He would’ve won the Smythe for sure. It was too tall an order. Tampa was a powerhouse and we got curb stomped. We were completely overmatched.

Either way, great run. Just a fantastic way for him to cap his career with us. Too bad he couldn’t have played longer but he had a great career here.

 

[ReHabs]

A circumstantial honour then essentially means being in the right place at the right time over and above the player's individual work... as if they are celebrating a team through an individual honour which is kind of strange.

That’s how it is. They were in the right place at the right time… to deliver the ultimate prize to the fans. Don’t forget the last part.

I don't think that is the primary intention when they induct guys in the hof or retire their jerseys. What it does is show certain biases rooted for players being in a better team situation.

HHOF and Jersey Retirements are different. In Montreal being a HOFer is a precondition for getting considered for the rafters.

Price didn’t redefine what it’s like to play goalie, he didn’t redefine what it’s like to win in Montreal. There is no statement made when you see his name in the rafters. It’s more a “what could have been…” rather than anything else.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price didn’t redefine what it’s like to play goalie, he didn’t redefine what it’s like to win in Montreal.

On this point I think you’re wrong. Price was highly influential on the next generation of goaltenders. I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say he redefined the position.

I’d like to hear @WeThreeKings thoughts on this though.

As for Price not getting retired because he didn’t win a cup, I disagree with that argument but I can understand it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

on this I think you’re wrong. Price was highly influential on the next generation of goaltenders. I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say he redefined the position.

I’d like to hear @WeThreeKings thought on this though.

Quick is the one who brought RVH into popularity and pretty much the entire goalie landscape shifted to try to pick it up. So that piece actually belongs to Quick the way the Butterfly traces back to Roy.

However, what Price did influence in the goaltending position (picking the reins from Brodeur) was the puck handling piece but more than that, similar to Dryden, the temperament. That nothing bothers me, I'm never rattled, I'm economical and I'm in control aura.

Most goalies will look at that era and be influenced by Lundqvist Price and Quick.

But I've made my point already. Price deserves his number retired. First ballot hall of famer. Has the hardware. Was the best player every year he played a healthy season on the Habs. Had playoff success. And is at the top, if not the top, of every major goaltending category in franchise history.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Quick is the one who brought RVH into popularity and pretty much the entire goalie landscape shifted to try to pick it up. So that piece actually belongs to Quick the way the Butterfly traces back to Roy.

However, what Price did influence in the goaltending position (picking the reins from Brodeur) was the puck handling piece but more than that, similar to Dryden, the temperament. That nothing bothers me, I'm never rattled, I'm economical and I'm in control aura.

Most goalies will look at that era and be influenced by Lundqvist Price and Quick.

But I've made my point already. Price deserves his number retired. First ballot hall of famer. Has the hardware. Was the best player every year he played a healthy season on the Habs. Had playoff success. And is at the top, if not the top, of every major goaltending category in franchise history.

Price seemed to have more of a stand up hybrid style though. Some Roy in him for sure.

As for the puck handling, he was as good as Brodeur, Hextall, DiPietro and highly aggressive at going after the puck. He was like a 3rd blueliner and totally negated dump and chase attacks. Look what happened after he went down in the 2014 playoffs.

 

[nhlfan9191]

That’s how it is. They were in the right place at the right time… to deliver the ultimate prize to the fans. Don’t forget the last part.

HHOF and Jersey Retirements are different. In Montreal being a HOFer is a precondition for getting considered for the rafters.

Price didn’t redefine what it’s like to play goalie, he didn’t redefine what it’s like to win in Montreal. There is no statement made when you see his name in the rafters. It’s more a “what could have been…” rather than anything else.

He did redefine how the position is played. Every youth goalie coach in North America followed the Carey Price model for years which is high efficient edge work and no wasted movement. You’re seeing the results of it at the pro level now.

 

[BLONG7]

That’s how it is. They were in the right place at the right time… to deliver the ultimate prize to the fans. Don’t forget the last part.

HHOF and Jersey Retirements are different. In Montreal being a HOFer is a precondition for getting considered for the rafters.

Price didn’t redefine what it’s like to play goalie, he didn’t redefine what it’s like to win in Montreal. There is no statement made when you see his name in the rafters. It’s more a “what could have been…” rather than anything else.

Price has been idolized by young goaltenders everywhere..............many have said they wanted to emulate Price. His technique was second to none, and did change the way young goalies play the game.....ask Carter Hart of the Flyers.

Price is a polarizing subject for most habs fans.....it's sad to see the organization build a team out in front of Monty and Primeau and what could have been if we had Hughes 10 years ago.....with Price healthy.

 

[Sorinth]

Voted yes but I have a very different view of what a jersey retirement should be about. To me it's all about a long term emotional connection with the fans. If you're the face of the franchise for a generation of fans you should get your jersey retired. Price was that, and talk about X many cups, Y many awards and Z levels of production just cheapen the whole idea of jersey retirement.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You can't make sense with The Bombshelll guy................he told us Mesar would get 200 pts playing Jr hockey so..........................not much credibility.

To each his own.....

I’m not trying to put anyone in their place. I’m simply challenging people to back up what they say.

I think people don’t realize just how good a career Price has had. I’ve heard people try to boil his career down to a couple of good years. It’s absolute nonsense.

Take a real look at his resume and compare it to that tier two group. He’s not out of place at all. Serge Savard for example is a full on legendary player. He deserves his number being retired and having his place in the HOF. Have a look at his resume vs Price’s. Is it that much better? Is it at least somewhat comparable? I don’t think Price is out of place in that group.

My hope is that people actually take a look with an open mind. This isn’t a Saku Koivu discussion, it’s a legit HOFer we’re talking about.

 

[GrandBison]

I’m not trying to put anyone in their place. I’m simply challenging people to back up what they say.

I think people don’t realize just how good a career Price has had. I’ve heard people try to boil his career down to a couple of good years. It’s absolute nonsense.

Take a real look at his resume and compare it to that tier two group. He’s not out of place at all. Serge Savard for example is a full on legendary player. He deserves his number being retired and having his place in the HOF. Have a look at his resume vs Price’s. Is it that much better? Is it at least somewhat comparable? I don’t think Price is out of place in that group.

My hope is that people actually take a look with an open mind. This isn’t a Saku Koivu discussion, it’s a legit HOFer we’re talking about.

It's Lapointe more than Savard that is the outlier. I think Price will get his number up there, even if, for different factors, his contribution to the team glory is rather thin. A lot of hockey will be played until there and let's just hope we raise a real banner before the 31.

 

[JianYang]

That’s how it is. They were in the right place at the right time… to deliver the ultimate prize to the fans. Don’t forget the last part.

HHOF and Jersey Retirements are different. In Montreal being a HOFer is a precondition for getting considered for the rafters.

Price didn’t redefine what it’s like to play goalie, he didn’t redefine what it’s like to win in Montreal. There is no statement made when you see his name in the rafters. It’s more a “what could have been…” rather than anything else.

So to you, it's about cups. That is what I assume you are referring to as the ultimate prize. I disagree. If you want to celebrate a team achievement, you shouldn't be doing it by retiring an individual's jersey.

As for hhof versus jersey retirement, I have already stated before that hhof induction is one of the prerequisites for being considered for jersey retirement in Montreal. I think all those jerseys retired have that in common. Where I was going with that comparison again is that they are honoring an individual. It should be repeated, I'm not sure if Price's number should be retired. I'll have to let that stew for a few years, but an hof induction is a must for at least being being considered.

My main contention at this point is for those who think he shouldn't even be CONSIDERED for the hof, which I think is the biggest stretch of all.

 

[Natey]

Durnan was not the best player on his team let alone the best player in the league.

Neither was Price.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's Lapointe more than Savard that is the outlier. I think Price will get his number up there, even if, for different factors, his contribution to the team glory is rather thin. A lot of hockey will be played until there and let's just hope we raise a real banner before the 31.

I'm not trying to find outliers or say Price (or any other player) is better than this guy or that guy. I think there are two tiers of players and I think Price belongs in that second tier. I'm not trying to tear down Savard or Lapointe or any other guy. Lapointe for example has six top five Norris finishes. That's pretty damn good. Nothing outside of those six years awards wise but he also was on six cup winners. A pretty great resume.

How far off is Price? Seven top ten Vezina finishes (including one win.) Four top five finishes. Two top ten Hart (including a win) two other top 20 finishes. Both guys have great playoff resumes. Compare that to Lapointe's six top five Norris finishes, Savard's four top five Norris finishes and a Smythe. All are great resumes. I don't think Price is out of place being honoured with those guys. He doesn't have the cups but his accomplishments are pretty incredible considering the teams he was on.

Again, the only reason to keep him out is not having a cup. If that's a dealbreaker, so be it. But the resume is there for retirement. And considering that he did it on bad teams, it's even more impressive that he has the resume that he does.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Neither was Price.

Nonsense.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So to you, it's about cups. That is what I assume you are referring to as the ultimate prize. I disagree. If you want to celebrate a team achievement, you shouldn't be doing it by retiring an individual's jersey.

As for hhof versus jersey retirement, I have already stated before that hhof induction is one of the prerequisites for being considered for jersey retirement in Montreal. I think all those jerseys retired have that in common. Where I was going with that comparison again is that they are honoring an individual. It should be repeated, I'm not sure if Price's number should be retired. I'll have to let that stew for a few years, but an hof induction is a must for at least being being considered.

My main contention at this point is for those who think he shouldn't even be CONSIDERED for the hof, which I think is the biggest stretch of all.

HOF lock. Probably first year. The only reason it may not be is the insane class he's a part of. All the players he's up against had long healthy careers. Getzlaff, Thorton, Keith and Chara are all eligble. That's the best class I can remember. Only four can go in at once.

 

[Bombshell11]

I think people don’t realize just how good a career Price has had. I’ve heard people try to boil his career down to a couple of good years. It’s absolute nonsense.

You're overrating his career

Take a real look at his resume and compare it to that tier two group. He’s not out of place at all.

He won 7 series throughout 11 playoffs and lost 9. You remove 2021, he's at 4 -8.

Its a very poor resume and has no business with the other great players.

Serge Savard for example is a full on legendary player. He deserves his number being retired and having his place in the HOF. Have a look at his resume vs Price’s. Is it that much better? Is it at least somewhat comparable? I don’t think Price is out of place in that group.

Savard won the sc 8 times, Conn Smyth once. We're also rewarding the results right?

If Price had a better career and actually won scs in his prime, most likely Subban would be getting his jersey retired as well. You don't win stanley cups alone. In LA there's a bunch of players from that era who will be deserving of a jersey retirement, its not just Quick or just Kopitar for ex.

My hope is that people actually take a look with an open mind. This isn’t a Saku Koivu discussion, it’s a legit HOFer we’re talking about.

Koivu connected with the fans, he never got booed. Was the captain for 10 years... if there;s one player we screwed up with it is Koivu... he played with totally garbage teams and that was all due to Molson abstaining from investing money into the team at a time where stuff was still kind of affordable. The molson centre was quite empty and that was hurting the team's financials.

Price was booed quite alot, he played in the cap era, the team was spending at max capacity.




All in all i get it, he could have done better... we definitly had a window with Price, Subban on the team. It sucks that the coach and GM din't get it and it sucks they screwed us up by sabotaging the chemistry of the team. It sucks they never traded for a top 1st line center and were playing Desharnais instead.

I get it, it sucks and i see where you're coming from but his career alone was not enough.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Savard won the sc 8 times, Conn Smyth once. We're also rewarding the results right?

Gilbert Dionne won a cup. Is he better than Marcel because of it?

Show your work.

 

[Bombshell11]

Nonsense.

Subban was better every other year aside for 2014, are you actually contesting that?

Gilbert Dionne won a cup. Is he better than Marcel because of it?

Show your work.

Come on man, this is not the argument. Savard was part of the core of the team. We're comparing core players to core players

 

[Natey]

Nonsense.

Yes, your post was most definitely nonsense. At no point was Price the best player in the league for an entire season.

One night? Sure. So was Jan Bulis.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Come on man, this is not the argument. Savard was part of the core of the team. We're comparing core players to core players

Stop dodging. Show your work.

Actually compare the resumes. Take a look and tell us why he's not as good. And don't come back with 'but he has more cups.' You might as well say that Gilbert Dionne is better than Marcel if you're going to do that.

I'm not going to reply to your one liners. Make a coherent argument if you want a reply.