Short on talent, Kings are in need of overhaul

[KINGS17]

But you don't even get the chance to be first round fodder if you're dealing with those injuries, just like a 'legit contender' had the chance to meet us at the first tee.

I can more or less understand and agree with everything else you've said but the idea that Carter isn't a difference maker is...let's just say you won't find a whole lot of hockey fans anywhere that agree with that.

Carter makes a difference to the Kings, a small difference. Put him on a cup contender in need of top six depth, and he makes a bigger difference.

 

[kingsfan28]

Reading the article a little more closely, there is no mention of Quick’s injury.

Two significant injuries have hampered this team. I do think they would have made the playoffs the last two years without those injuries.

Yeah , he left that BIG point out of his click bait article. Funny how he offered no explanation on how they plan on getting better. All I kept reading was old,old old. Guess what, the Ducks, aside from their defensive depth are in worse shape than the Kings. They have nobody coming in to replace Getzlaf, Perry or Kesler. Perry is fading faster than a UK pop star.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes, this is the re-load people are counting on to put the aging core back on top.

Reload yes, but all of those guys need to learn how to be a pro, the quickest way to ruin them is to destroy their confidence by throwing them up on the big team and say, play, but you are our saviour etc. That is the idiocy that LA was doing before, and it did nothing for them.

Depending on those guys is one thing, but advocating that you trade everyone but a handful of guys and then have those guys step in next year is lunacy.

 

[KINGS17]

Reload yes, but all of those guys need to learn how to be a pro, the quickest way to ruin them is to destroy their confidence by throwing them up on the big team and say, play, but you are our saviour etc. That is the idiocy that LA was doing before, and it did nothing for them.

Depending on those guys is one thing, but advocating that you trade everyone but a handful of guys and then have those guys step in next year is lunacy.

All I can say is you know the environment in place when Luc Robitaille was with the Kings, and Luc was not a fan of Dean Lombardi. To be fair though, I don't think Dean had much use for Luc either.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Carter makes a difference to the Kings, a small difference. Put him on a cup contender in need of top six depth, and he makes a bigger difference.

That seems like an oxymoron to me.

I guess I'm just circling back around to where I started, Carter is a top center in this league and most teams feel the loss of a 60-pt two-way center. I guess to me I feel like he makes a bigger difference to this roster in particular (due to lack of scoring depth especially) than people around here and outside want to give credit for.

I remember once upon a time we were just hoping to stay afloat with him gone and well, imo, we've done that and more.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yes, this is the re-load people are counting on to put the aging core back on top.

Not true at all. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true.

And a rebuild is more likely to force young players into the NHL before they're ready.

 

[KINGS17]

Not true at all. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true.

And a rebuild is more likely to force young players into the NHL before they're ready.

A rebuild done correctly does not force young players into the NHL before they are ready. See the model followed by Dean Lombardi. Players who never saw the minors were Kopitar and Doughty (one an all-star, the other a generational talent), Jack Johnson (sure could have used at least a half season in the AHL), and Kyle Clifford (a man child with incredible strength). The rest of them Martinez, Muzzin, Lewis, Quick, Bernier, Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, etc. all spent substantial time in the AHL.

Not forcing young kids into the NHL before their time is the whole point of bridge contracts given to established NHL vets like Handzus, and many others. A proper rebuild takes time and patience.

 

[KINGS17]

double post

 

[KINGS17]

That seems like an oxymoron to me.

I guess I'm just circling back around to where I started, Carter is a top center in this league and most teams feel the loss of a 60-pt two-way center. I guess to me I feel like he makes a bigger difference to this roster in particular (due to lack of scoring depth especially) than people around here and outside want to give credit for.

I remember once upon a time we were just hoping to stay afloat with him gone and well, imo, we've done that and more.

For the Kings, Carter doesn't counterbalance the large lack of depth and quality. A contending team that needs one more quality forward...and Carter makes a huge difference.

You have an extremely low bar when it comes to judging the Kings. They are a black hole team, with or without Jeff Carter.

 

[johnjm22]

Simmonds also went directly to the NHL.

Letting Clifford go straight to the NHL was a mistake.

 

[KINGS17]

Simmonds also went directly to the NHL.

Letting Clifford go straight to the NHL was a mistake.

Thanks, I forgot Simmonds. Most however did go through the AHL.

 

[johnjm22]

Dean's best attribute was patience. Which was something the organization lacked for a long time before Dean came along.

It's funny that the critism of Dean around here is that he was trading away / squandering futures assets. Before 2012 most of the critism of Dean on this board was that he wouldn't make enough moves to improve the team. He was "sitting on his hands." I remember how furious people here were when Drury and Gomez signed with the Rangers.

DL did many things I didn't agree with, but philosphically I understand what he was going for; be patient and hord picks/prospects until you can contend. Once you're a contender sell the farm to try and win now because your Stanley Cup window is short.

 

[kingsfan28]

Simmonds also went directly to the NHL.

Letting Clifford go straight to the NHL was a mistake.

Both had good training camps and stayed. I still think both could've used a year in the AHL before being thrown into the Crawford meat grinder.

 

[LAKings88]

This team is different with Carter.

Hopefully he comes in strong.

This stretch and next year’s start will determine if a rebuild is needed.

Two players I most wonder about now are Pearson and Toffoli.

Wondering if a hockey trade needs to happen with one or both of them.

 

[King'sPawn]

A rebuild done correctly does not force young players into the NHL before they are ready. See the model followed by Dean Lombardi. Players who never saw the minors were Kopitar and Doughty (one an all-star, the other a generational talent), Jack Johnson (sure could have used at least a half season in the AHL), and Kyle Clifford (a man child with incredible strength). The rest of them Martinez, Muzzin, Lewis, Quick, Bernier, Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, etc. all spent substantial time in the AHL.

Not forcing young kids into the NHL before their time is the whole point of bridge contracts given to established NHL vets like Handzus, and many others. A proper rebuild takes time and patience.

Just because a player spent time in the minors doesn't mean they were brought up before they were NHL ready.

See: Oscar Moller, Ted Purcell... a couple players Lombardi brought up too early

 

[KINGS17]

Just because a player spent time in the minors doesn't mean they were brought up before they were NHL ready.

See: Oscar Moller, Ted Purcell... a couple players Lombardi brought up too early

...or could it be see two players who didn't have what it took to make it in the NHL. I don't know why you are arguing this point. I gave you plenty of examples where he was patient and let youngsters develop while having veteran placeholders on the roster until they were ready. Placeholders like Modry, Dallman and Blake for example. There are many more examples just go back and look at the rosters from 2006 through 2010.

Let's see how what Robitaille and Blake are going to do affects the young players the Kings are going to be trying to develop. Will they screw them up because they think the team is a contender and in a win now situation? Luc's personal history indicates it's a strong possibility. Not sure what Blake will do.

 

[King'sPawn]

...or could it be see two players who didn't have what it took to make it in the NHL. I don't know why you are arguing this point. I gave you plenty of examples where he was patient and let youngsters develop while having veteran placeholders on the roster until they were ready. Placeholders like Modry, Dallman and Blake for example. There are many more examples just go back and look at the rosters from 2006 through 2010.

Let's see how what Robitaille and Blake are going to do affects the young players the Kings are going to be trying to develop. Will they screw them up because they think the team is a contender and in a win now situation? Luc's personal history indicates it's a strong possibility. Not sure what Blake will do.

I'm arguing that a rebuild is more likely to throw kids into the NHL than the retool approach you are demonizing.

A retool if done wrong can set a team back, but you will NOT see kids thrown in the NHL nearly as much as a rebuild, because rebuild inherently is all about building around young players.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm arguing that a rebuild is more likely to throw kids into the NHL than the retool approach you are demonizing.

A retool if done wrong can set a team back, but you will NOT see kids thrown in the NHL nearly as much as a rebuild, because rebuild inherently is all about building around young players.

I don't agree. With a rebuild the way it was done under Lombardi the kids were protected and brought along at the correct pace. Dean did it with his "bridge contracts" which were often discussed here. Now if Blake and Robitaille screw up the development of some of these kids it will be because they are still trying to "contend", and move them into the NHL too soon. The Kings don't have the cap space to retool with veteran players.

Now it's quite possible they screw up in a rebuild as well, but Lombardi has already shown the way on how to do it correctly.

 

[Fishhead]

It's really hard to get a read on this team without Carter, because forwards are playing out of their slots. It will be interesting to see how Pearson and Toffoli respond to Carter's return, they've always had good chemistry. Not that they shouldn't get it done on their own, but it might be the shot in the arm they need.

 

[tsanuri]

It's really hard to get a read on this team without Carter, because forwards are playing out of their slots. It will be interesting to see how Pearson and Toffoli respond to Carter's return, they've always had good chemistry. Not that they shouldn't get it done on their own, but it might be the shot in the arm they need.

Toffoli is still on a 26 goal pace over 82 games. Pearson is the one who's production is much lower. Only 14 goal pace.
But not having what i would consider a top 5 second line center could do that. They have a rookie that has filled in very well but he's miles behind Carter.