Short on talent, Kings are in need of overhaul

[deaderhead28]

Short on talent, Kings are in need of overhaul

Adam Gretz


Feb 16,2018

With their teams falling out of the playoff race and the NHL trade deadline just around the corner the New York Rangers and Ottawa Senators have sent the message to their fans that changes are probably coming to their roster.
The mindset is simple: The team’s aren’t good enough to win as currently constructed and it is probably time to hit the reset button and start over. It might mean a step backwards in the short-term for what will — hopefully — be a stronger, more consistent and competitive organization in the not-too-distant future.

Click on the link below to read more:

Short on talent, Kings are in need of overhaul

Click to read more...

 

[KingsFan7824]

There's no reset button with large contracts that nobody wants. It is what it is until Brown, Quick, and Kopitar run out.

 

[Bandit]

Who is Adam Gretz?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who is Adam Gretz?

He is a crossbreed of Adam Banks and Wayne Gretzky.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

This is great click bait for the doom and gloom group Enjoy I will continue my cup half full approach

 

[deaderhead28]

As much as some believe there's a solution of winning another cup with this core,there's not.Kings can't afford to give up high end prospects or draft picks.The few long contracts are hurting chances to fix this team then Blake goes out and dumpsters dives for another higher bad contract.Even giving up roster players worth anything would cause holes.This team isn't clicking and unmotivated.This team has no leadership stepping up and leading.The roster is not capable of a chance at the cup.King17 and others maybe right, it's time to sale at the deadline and retool before Doughty bolts.

 

[KingsCourt]

This is great click bait for the doom and gloom group Enjoy I will continue my cup half full approach

While i do agree with you, the play of Pearson and Toffoli is concerning

 

[deaderhead28]

This is great click bait for the doom and gloom group Enjoy I will continue my cup half full approach

Doom and Gloom?No it's just looking at the reality of the situation.Or repeat the same mistakes as Lombardi did by not selling while you can and retooling the roster and the minors.You think Doughtys frustrated now lol, wait until this summer and he doesn't resign cause Blake is understandably unwilling or can't make the trades that would improve the roster.Its not a blame game,it's just the condition the team and farm to is in.

 

[regulate]

While the author mentions Carter, the reality is that we lost our leading scorer from the previous year and it's a steep hurdle for any NHL team to recover from. I'm glad we're still in the mix.

 

[deaderhead28]

While the author mentions Carter, the reality is that we lost our leading scorer from the previous year and it's a step hurdle for any NHL team to recover from. I'm glad we're still in the mix.

Issue is we had Carter the last few years and still missed out on the playoffs.Many give the excuse for Kings troubles cause of the injury to Carter.The Kings actually won what like 8 games straight or something without Carter?The reality is with Carters eventual return to the lineup it's not going to fill the other holes on this roster.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Doom and Gloom?No it's just looking at the reality of the situation.Or repeat the same mistakes as Lombardi did by not selling while you can and retooling the roster and the minors.You think Doughtys frustrated now lol, wait until this summer and he doesn't resign cause Blake is understandably unwilling or can't make the trades that would improve the roster.Its not a blame game,it's just the condition the team and farm to is in.

This team is making changes since the start of 2016 year Greene king gaborik Budaj McNabb Stoll Lucic Purcell Suderi Setogushi Latta Shore Scheen nolan Mcbain Cammy jokinen Weal and more i can't remember gone. This team is making moves it has players coming. This year alone we had 6 or 7 rookies score there first goals. Kempe Brodzinski Iafallo all making this team as rookies. Amadio LaDue getting real shots. Vilardi and Clague coming for sure I also think Luff and watson will make the kings 2 years out. This the team is moving in the right direction maybe not as fast as we all would like but i see this year as better then last year and as long as there is forward progress i will remain optimistic

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

In need of a rebuild

 

[deaderhead28]

Many of those players haven't been on this team before 2016 or were role players or dumpster diving playersthe last few years.Budaj was a good back up.I would say the Trying Gabby for Phanuef as a positive either.They traded one player who is old and slowing down bad contract for another old and slow player with a higher amount contract that can still kinda move due to the fact he isn't a fwd.Kings screwed up keeping Forbort and leaving McNabb unprotected.I wouldn't be celebrating to much.

 

[deaderhead28]

In need of a rebuild

I would like this if I had a like button.It disappeared last night and hasn't been seen since.

 

[Magicman]

Quick, name the last team to win 2 or more cups, ship off all the core for a rebuild and then win another cup within 10 seasons?

Not keep some core players like the goalie and a few stars but get rid of the whole lot. Like allot around here want to do.

It has never happened. Let that sink in for a moment.

Pittsburgh may be close, but it was 14 seasons between cup wins. And all the players drafted in 94-2000, I don't believe a single one was on the 2007 cup winner. So they basically went thru 2 re-builds before 2007. Then another 9 seasons before pay dirt with basically keeping a player or 2 and their 2 biggest stars from 2007 and re-tooling across the board. Players GM and coaches.

The Detroit teams just re-tooled with veterans in the 90's. Jersey retooled as did Montreal from 86 to 93. But since Montreal shipped off Roy, and "Rebuilt", not a sniff.

Edmonton has not won since the late 80's, Islanders, nope. Colorado 16 seasons and counting. Toronto, it's been 60 seasons and counting, Chicago, nope only 1 win in 61 then a mere 49 or so seasons until another win. Rangers, nope only 1 win since 54, so it's 23 seasons and counting. Boston, 72 then 39 or so seasons. Philly is still waiting as well.

Rebuilding is not the magic bullet so many think it is. In fact history tells us it's better to re-tool.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Many of those players haven't been on this team before 2016 or were role players or dumpster diving playersthe last few years.Budaj was a good back up.I would say the Trying Gabby for Phanuef as a positive either.They traded one player who is old and slowing down bad contract for another old and slow player with a higher amount contract that can still kinda move due to the fact he isn't a fwd.Kings screwed up keeping Forbort and leaving McNabb unprotected.I wouldn't be celebrating to much.

Its plugging holes until your your prospects can fill roles This team was bad at trusting there own prospect to play that is why the team had to dumpster dive as u call it to fill holes Blake is trusting the ahl more then Lombardi did. This is needed we need cheap players to balance out the expensive contracts we are left with. However players are going to need a season or two to get used to the nhl over ahl. I believe that we negelated this process and why we are in this predicament now. This is that season. I see the progress there is a method to this madness.

As far as the Gaborik trade i think Dion has done more in his one game then Gabby done in his last 3 Lets go to the stats to see if i was correct. Dion played 18 mins 56 secs.
gaborik played 13 mins 34 scs against carolina
played 7 mins 35 secs lighting
was a healthy scratched since feb 1

scoring dion one goal
gaborik none (last point jan 15 last goal dec 30)

Dion had 3 block shots and 3 shots
gaborik had one shot aand no block shots

Looks like i was right in two game cause he was a healthy scratch in some before that. The point is Dion is going to be playing Gaborik was ineffective and not in the lineup most nights. For the difference of roughly 400k ill take the playing player 10 out of 10 times aiec
Have they made mistakes sure show me one team that hasn't Forbort showed more then McNabb did last year Kings couldn't predict he would regress I defy u to say you would see that coming. In fact if i recall right you said urself u would protect Forbort over him.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings just need to hold onto their picks and prospects and do a good job of drafting and developing. Change takes time.

The nice thing about having Kopitar and possibly Doughty locked up is that you're bringing up your prospects in a stable envoirment. For example we can let Vilardi play in the NHL next year with out throwing him to the wolves. (If he's ready).

 

[deaderhead28]

Quick, name the last team to win 2 or more cups, ship off all the core for a rebuild and then win another cup within 10 seasons?

Not keep some core players like the goalie and a few stars but get rid of the whole lot. Like allot around here want to do.

It has never happened. Let that sink in for a moment.

Pittsburgh may be close, but it was 14 seasons between cup wins. And all the players drafted in 94-2000, I don't believe a single one was on the 2007 cup winner. So they basically went thru 2 re-builds before 2007. Then another 9 seasons before pay dirt with basically keeping a player or 2 and their 2 biggest stars from 2007 and re-tooling across the board. Players GM and coaches.

The Detroit teams just re-tooled with veterans in the 90's. Jersey retooled as did Montreal from 86 to 93. But since Montreal shipped off Roy, and "Rebuilt", not a sniff.

Edmonton has not won since the late 80's, Islanders, nope. Colorado 16 seasons and counting. Toronto, it's been 60 seasons and counting, Chicago, nope only 1 win in 61 then a mere 49 or so seasons until another win. Rangers, nope only 1 win since 54, so it's 23 seasons and counting. Boston, 72 then 39 or so seasons. Philly is still waiting as well.

Rebuilding is not the magic bullet so many think it is. In fact history tells us it's better to re-tool.

This team has no assets to retool in a quick order.The core can't wait three years either.The fact Blake is unable to make a real meaningful trade to overhaul this roster without the picks or prospects and without creating more holes by trading roster players, it's just not a unfortunate reality and windows closing due to age.

Quick is 32,
Kopitar will be 31,
Jeff Carter 33,
Martinez will be 31,
Brown is 33,
Phanuef will be 33
Thompson is 33
Lewis 31
That is a lot to overcome.

 

[deaderhead28]

The Kings just need to hold onto their picks and prospects and do a good job of drafting and developing. Change takes time.

The nice thing about having Kopitar and possibly Doughty locked up is that you're bringing up your prospects in a stable envoirment. For example we can let Vilardi play in the NHL next year with out throwing him to the wolves. (If he's ready).

Doughty will bolt if the team rebuilds.Make a decision to rebuild then sell high with Doughty if you can't resign him this summer.If he wants to stay then resign the man.Kings are stuck with Kopi's contract same with Quicks unless Kings gives up a lot to have another team to take those deals.

 

[Fishhead]

Like it's easy to just rebuild. All articles like this are based on that flawed premise. A lot of things go into being a winner, and none of it is easy. You have to draft well, then you have to develop correctly. Then you have to balance your lineup, have good chemistry, and bring in leadership if it's not there.

You could trade Doughty, Carter, Kopitar, etc., but who are you going to trade them to? With the cap options are limited. You need a team that will give you fantastic, young cost-controlled players, but without those young players on their roster, they can't afford a top player in the first place. First rounders you get for stars usually aren't worth squat, because the teams they go to are going to be successful. Bottom feeders with lottery picks aren't in the market for a superstar, so you are stuck picking late in the draft. Top draft positions help obviously, but then again, look at the Oilers, Islanders, and Sabres who have seen zero success despite drafting high for the last 5 years.

The Kings best bet is to try and trim the fat where they can, keep an eye on the development of guys like Vilardi, Kempe, and Clague, and get a better read on where the organization is. In the meantime, just try and get into the playoffs while you evaluate. Vilardi is looking great, he's got the size and skill to be a star. Add a young gun like that to this roster along with a healthy Carter and the scoring woes lessen greatly.

I'm usually on the rebuild wagon, but there are too many variables right now. Taking another season or two with this core to see if they can get it done isn't a big deal, there's no reason to rush into a rebuild when they are no guarantee of success.

 

[deaderhead28]

Like it's easy to just rebuild. All articles like this are based on that flawed premise. A lot of things go into being a winner, and none of it is easy. You have to draft well, then you have to develop correctly. Then you have to balance your lineup, have good chemistry, and bring in leadership if it's not there.

You could trade Doughty, Carter, Kopitar, etc., but who are you going to trade them to? With the cap options are limited. You need a team that will give you fantastic, young cost-controlled players, but without those young players on their roster, they can't afford a top player in the first place. First rounders you get for stars usually aren't worth squat, because the teams they go to are going to be successful. Bottom feeders with lottery picks aren't in the market for a superstar, so you are stuck picking late in the draft. Top draft positions help obviously, but then again, look at the Oilers, Islanders, and Sabres who have seen zero success despite drafting high for the last 5 years.

The Kings best bet is to try and trim the fat where they can, keep an eye on the development of guys like Vilardi, Kempe, and Clague, and get a better read on where the organization is. In the meantime, just try and get into the playoffs while you evaluate. Vilardi is looking great, he's got the size and skill to be a star. Add a young gun like that to this roster along with a healthy Carter and the scoring woes lessen greatly.

I'm usually on the rebuild wagon, but there are too many variables right now. Taking another season or two with this core to see if they can get it done isn't a big deal, there's no reason to rush into a rebuild when they are no guarantee of success.

Unfortunately the ie core if you consider Quick Kopi,Brown,Carter,and Doughty,all but Doughty are in their 30's.Tough sale to say were going to try to win in the next few years with a old core.Gotta sale now and get top prospects and picks to rebuild or to get already young established players.

 

[KINGS17]

This is great click bait for the doom and gloom group Enjoy I will continue my cup half full approach

I don't even have to read it as I am sure he just read this board and summarized my best stuff.

You keep on enjoying having sunshine blown up your skirt. On pace to have won 1 playoff game in the last 4 seasons. The last playoff series win was in June of 2014, ancient history.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings just need to hold onto their picks and prospects and do a good job of drafting and developing. Change takes time.

The nice thing about having Kopitar and possibly Doughty locked up is that you're bringing up your prospects in a stable envoirment. For example we can let Vilardi play in the NHL next year with out throwing him to the wolves. (If he's ready).

Underrated point. Many recent lottery teams don't have the insulation for their prospects--particularly d-men--who are fast-tracked directly into the NHL and subsequently falter. Hell, Arizona is getting rid of Max Domi, what year of rebuild are they on now?

It's inevitable with how bad the bottom of the Pacific has been that at some point, those youngsters are going to surpass the Kopitars and Getzlafs, the Doughtys and Burns/Vlasics. That doesn't even mean you did anything wrong, father time comes for everyone. But Blake gets almost carte blanche from me this year and I'll have a more concrete feeling on rebuild vs. retool at the start of next season but right now retooling a la Bruins is looking good.

Also love the people underselling the Carter absence. Not even Tampa Bay surpassed their injury issues to make the playoffs last year. Missing a 60-point two-way center on a bubble team could be a death sentence. Adding one at the deadline is a pipedream for most teams but he's incoming and for free. Perk up.

 

[KINGS17]

Underrated point. Many recent lottery teams don't have the insulation for their prospects--particularly d-men--who are fast-tracked directly into the NHL and subsequently falter. Hell, Arizona is getting rid of Max Domi, what year of rebuild are they on now?

It's inevitable with how bad the bottom of the Pacific has been that at some point, those youngsters are going to surpass the Kopitars and Getzlafs, the Doughtys and Burns/Vlasics. That doesn't even mean you did anything wrong, father time comes for everyone. But Blake gets almost carte blanche from me this year and I'll have a more concrete feeling on rebuild vs. retool at the start of next season but right now retooling a la Bruins is looking good.

Also love the people underselling the Carter absence. Not even Tampa Bay surpassed their injury issues to make the playoffs last year. Missing a 60-point two-way center on a bubble team could be a death sentence. Adding one at the deadline is a pipedream for most teams but he's incoming and for free. Perk up.

Which was one of the elements of Dean's plan he got 100% correct. The teams you mention never heard of a bridge contract. Hell, even Dean was tempted to bring Jonthan Bernier in the year after he was drafted, but what did he do instead.

Rebuilds done correctly, with the right philosophy and approach have a better chance of succeeding. They didn't bring in Voynov or Muzzin too soon, and history I think shows they didn't do Jack Johnson at least a half season to marinate in the NHL.

This retool only works if Vilardi, Clague, and probably even Cal Peterson are the real deals in pretty short order.

 

[Fishhead]

Unfortunately the ie core if you consider Quick Kopi,Brown,Carter,and Doughty,all but Doughty are in their 30's.Tough sale to say were going to try to win in the next few years with a old core.Gotta sale now and get top prospects and picks to rebuild or to get already young established players.

So who is going to give top prospects right now? I can't think of many teams. In theory, that's how it works, but in reality it's different.