Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[ShaneFalco]

Fire Keefe go with an interim until the right coach can be hired
Should have happened last year

 

[ACC1224]

He knows how to execute a tank. Building a team, not so much. Again, there is a reason we have not won in 56 years and we not only suck on the ice when it counts, we suck off the ice as well. Empty SBC arena is the only way to get the idiots to wake up and that is not happening. Bend over, cough and accept your fate.

What would they do differently once awake?

 

[Mess]

As bad a Dubas was as a GM, Keefe was even worse as a coach, got outcoached by everyone he faced year after year, and ended up embarassing Leaf Nation as a result.

There is a lot for Leafs new GM to clean up including the coach, but they're simply higher priority issues to deal with at present, so that can be placed on the backburner for now. .

Keefe can be fired at anytime when BT has a coach out there he wants to replace him with.

The only thing good about Keefe staying is that it gives the players some stability knowing the system in place, while the roster upheaval and turnover process begins.

 

[ToneDog]

As bad a Dubas was as a GM, Keefe was even worse as a coach, get outcoached by everyone he faced year after year.

There is a lot for Leafs new GM to clean up including the coach, but they're simply higher priority issues to deal with at present, so that can be placed on the backburner for now. .

Keefe can be fired at anytime when BT has a coach out there he wants to replace him with.

The only thing good about Keefe staying is that it gives the players some stability knowing the system in place, while the roster upheaval and turnover process begins.

That should give Leafs fans tons of confidence. Doesn't give me "plan the parade" vibes.

 

[PromisedLand]

He knows how to execute a tank. Building a team, not so much. Again, there is a reason we have not won in 56 years and we not only suck on the ice when it counts, we suck off the ice as well. Empty SBC arena is the only way to get the idiots to wake up and that is not happening. Bend over, cough and accept your fate.

lol i sort of agree and want to cry

 

[PromisedLand]

That is what we should have done last yr. Nothing

I had said not to do anything and stay status-quo as these guys haven't shown any capability to get it done in the post season so mortgaging the future was never a wise thing to do. But dubas wanted to save his job I guess so he traded everything. I was really pissed.

 

[PromisedLand]

Keep what draft picks we have
Sign UFA's that fit
Schenn 2 mil for 3 yrs
Bertuzzi 5 mil for 5 yrs
Acurri 1.3 mil for 3 yrs
Hathaway 1.5 mil for 2 yrs
OEL 2 mil for 2 yr
ORielly 5 mil for 3 yrs

Trade
Murray or buyout
Hopefully Muzzin retires or LTIR

Yea but there are constraints.... what is matthews/nylnader (if they both re-sign) AAV going to be in a cap world; can we fit these guys in this cap world. Samsonov is also RFA so thats another issue.

Muzzin is done IMO; he will go on LTIR. Murray trade as long as we don't have to add is going to be alright IMO; buying him out is probably not a good idea in a cap crunch; unless we decide we will use next 2 years as re-tooling and forget about playoffs then buying him out is fine as long as his buy out allows us to sign decent depth which can then be flipped on TDL for picks/prospects

TBD of course. Dubas has really left a BIG MESS for us

 

[Trapper]

Let's see.... core staying.... Keefe staying... Is it too early to change my username to 57 Years No Cup?

Depending on what we pay the core next, you might want to up that.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Are the Maple Leafs really about to run it back … again?

Is bringing almost everything back next year enough with how little progress has been made when it truly matters?

theathletic.com

When Nick Cousins crushed their season in overtime of Game 5 against the Panthers, big change felt inevitable for the Maple Leafs.

The status of head coach Sheldon Keefe was suddenly up in the air. So was the future of the four biggest stars on the team and of course, the general manager without a contract, Kyle Dubas.

More than a month later, only Dubas is gone and it’s looking likelier than not that the Leafs may be (mostly) running it all back again.

The fact that Brad Treliving, Dubas’ replacement as GM, has been interviewing assistant coaching candidates to replace Spencer Carbery means that Keefe is indeed coming back next season. That much is clear now. The only remaining question is whether Treliving will extend Keefe’s expiring contract — and if so, for how long.

Does the Leafs GM simply tack on a year in what would look a lot like only a token show of faith? Or does he make a more meaningful commitment to the coach he didn’t hire, one that would stamp out any questions about Keefe’s future? Is ownership willing to make that kind of financial commitment to Keefe now that Mike Babcock’s eight-year deal is finally about come to an end?

A one-year extension probably wouldn’t do much to alter the perception of Keefe’s status. A rough start for the Leafs next fall and questions about Keefe’s job security will take off, just like they did last fall when Keefe was asked, after the 10th game of the season, about his job being on the line.

Treliving, notably, kept Bob Hartley around as Flames coach when he took over as Calgary’s GM in 2014. Hartley proceeded to win the Jack Adams Award as coach of the year. Often forgotten is what came next: Treliving fired Hartley after the following season.

As a coach that his GM didn’t hire, Keefe’s fate may always linger uncertainly in the air, just as it did with Babcock after Dubas took over as GM.

There’s a legitimate argument for bringing Keefe back for his fifth season as Leafs coach.

He coached the two most productive regular season teams in Leafs history and holds the second-best points percentage (.678) of any active NHL coach. He also became the first coach since Pat Quinn to lead the Leafs into the second round.

Spin that last part another way though and Keefe, coaching a team with perennial Stanley Cup aspirations, has produced just one playoff series win in four postseasons. That win came in a series that saw the Leafs often outplayed by the Lightning.

The Leafs then struggled to score in the second round in what’s been a trend with Keefe-coached Leaf teams. Before he was fired, Dubas alluded to the need for the Leafs to “build in different offensive principles that can allow us to produce more at those key moments.”

Bringing Keefe back wouldn’t seem quite as notable were the Leafs making substantial change at the top of the roster after a seventh straight playoff failure, the prospect of which becomes less and less likely as July 1 nears and the stars gain more control over their futures.

 

[myleafs]

We'll get 'em next year

or the year after....or the year after that...then Im pretty sure it will be the year after that......Maybe we can bring Dubas back after Trelivings deal and reunite the whole band after that.

Let’s see him come back dropping thirty pounds. He’s the head coach and I don’t care what anyone says watching him balloon like that isn’t exactly a great look to his players, when he’s preaching commitment and hard work. Lean and mean Sheldon, set a tone.

you mean like this guy?

 

[myleafs]

I agree with you in principle.

That said, as long as Treliving is not mortgaging the future this year or the next I say we ride it out.

Reasons:
- As far as I am concerned, I am convinced that Leafs are not going to have any playoff success until Tavares is on the cap/roster.
- I think the best approach is for the Leafs to plan for the year when Tavares is off the cap.
- Meanwhile, keep collecting assets, draft well and remain status-quo i.e. boring off-season and boring TDL (unless of course there is a deal we can't refuse at all and we win the deal)

In the scenario, I described above you let Keefe be here for 2 years until Tavares is on teh cap come what may; once Tavares is off the cap you dump Keefe and hire a new coach with new vision, use Tavares' cap on constructive roster building.

All of it IMO starts with not overpaying Matthews/Willy and deciding on Marner whether or not we should dump him. if Marnar at 11 AAV is already over price imagine how overpriced he would be on his next deal.

We just gotta be patient until Tavares is off the cap. Treliving better not F it up though

Oh so only 2 more year then? Sweet, Im so excited...guess I should pull out an old favorite.......

 

[myleafs]

Let's see.... core staying.... Keefe staying... Is it too early to change my username to 57 Years No Cup?

I would go with 57 beers, No cup

 

[myleafs]

The only thing good about Keefe staying is that it gives the players some stability knowing the system in place, while the roster upheaval and turnover process begins.

I can see it now....

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm not a Keefe fan. I am not that happy either with this decision.

It just seems like this is about Shanahan preservation and not anything else. Shanny is on his 4th GM, and 3rd coach since he's been here. He obviously wants this team to keep competing and feels that Keefe is ok.

Removing the GM, the Coach, and possibly some of the core is a scorched earth move. Toronto is still in the compete for the cup window.

I am disappointed about Keefe, but I don't blame Shanny one bit for keeping Keefe around.

 

[horner]

Yea but there are constraints.... what is matthews/nylnader (if they both re-sign) AAV going to be in a cap world; can we fit these guys in this cap world. Samsonov is also RFA so thats another issue.

Muzzin is done IMO; he will go on LTIR. Murray trade as long as we don't have to add is going to be alright IMO; buying him out is probably not a good idea in a cap crunch; unless we decide we will use next 2 years as re-tooling and forget about playoffs then buying him out is fine as long as his buy out allows us to sign decent depth which can then be flipped on TDL for picks/prospects

TBD of course. Dubas has really left a BIG MESS for us

Forgot about Sammy

Oh so only 2 more year then? Sweet, Im so excited...guess I should pull out an old favorite.......

Trade one of Nylander mathews or marner

 

[fahad203]

I'm not a Keefe fan. I am not that happy either with this decision.

It just seems like this is about Shanahan preservation and not anything else. Shanny is on his 4th GM, and 3rd coach since he's been here. He obviously wants this team to keep competing and feels that Keefe is ok.

Removing the GM, the Coach, and possibly some of the core is a scorched earth move. Toronto is still in the compete for the cup window.

I am disappointed about Keefe, but I don't blame Shanny one bit for keeping Keefe around.

I totally blame Shanny. Coach should have been fired long time ago, long before Dubas
There's nothing special about Keefe. Even with an another AHL coach, this team will make the playoffs on it's own. It's the playoffs that counts

Part of management is confidence which leads to credbility. The team and fan base has lost confidence in Keefe, therefore, he has no credibiilty left

If they dont' fire him now, they wont' get another opportunity until next year, which will be a waste of another year
Lets be honest, we are goign to be good in regular season.

 

[PromisedLand]

Oh so only 2 more year then? Sweet, Im so excited...guess I should pull out an old favorite.......

if you don't want to wait 2 more years then IMO Keefe should be fired and one of matthews, nylander, marner have to be traded b/c we for sure know Tavares won't be traded he has full nmc and he isn't going anywhere.

in this scenario you hope the assets we get back from the trade are good enough to cover up for the high AAV declining asset in Tavares and the new coach actually holds players accountable equally so that there is a "team" mentality that develops in the locker room where everyone's on ice play is subject to same yardstick.

I think the safest and intelligent thing to do is to wait out Tavares' contract; he is done. He can't do much 5 on 5 and in playoff hockey 5on5 hockey is king.

 

[myleafs]

if you don't want to wait 2 more years then IMO Keefe should be fired and one of matthews, nylander, marner have to be traded b/c we for sure know Tavares won't be traded he has full nmc and he isn't going anywhere.

in this scenario you hope the assets we get back from the trade are good enough to cover up for the high AAV declining asset in Tavares and the new coach actually holds players accountable equally so that there is a "team" mentality that develops in the locker room where everyone's on ice play is subject to same yardstick.

I think the safest and intelligent thing to do is to wait out Tavares' contract; he is done. He can't do much 5 on 5 and in playoff hockey 5on5 hockey is king.

So just keep it the same and wait out Tavares contract?....I just vomited a little in my mouth. Its not even about winning a trade, its about changing the culture and team makeup. Sometimes a shakeup for the sake of a shakeup is needed contrary to what some think...imo

 

[PromisedLand]

So just keep it the same and wait out Tavares contract?....I just vomited a little in my mouth. Its not even about winning a trade, its about changing the culture and team makeup. Sometimes a shakeup for the sake of a shakeup is needed contrary to what some think...imo

we have no other option. Ideally you deal tavares b/c he is an anchor but he has full nmc/ntc. that leaves one of matthews/marner/nylnader that you trade and you also have to get rid of the coach if you still want to continue going for it.

There are 5 big problems for the Leafs

1) Tavares contract -> declining asset that has 11 AAV cap hit and is not good enough 5on5 for his cap hit. Can't deal him b/c he has full nmc/ntc

2) Coaching: Keefe has shown he can't do much in the playoffs to motivate, adjust or outthink opposition coaching. Simple example: Against tampa he broke matthews-marner not because he wanted to but cooper forced his hand as tavares was struggling. Against Panthers he didn't!!! He couldn't even adjust to the coaching tactics for freakin PoMo.

3) Cap crunch and upcoming contracts for Matthews/Nylander. Once they get paid (if they both re-sign) there won't be much left for quality depth (froward or defense); you can't compete in the playoffs with the same roster composition. There is enough evidence to suggest that they can't raise their game enough to compensate for not having quality depth.

4) Defense isn't big and nasty enough to play hardnose hockey putting the fear of god in opposition forwards. Moreover, we have offensive D-man in Lily that Keefe refuses to use correctly.

5) Goalie situation: Samsonov SV% was trash in the playoffs; Vasy sucked even mroe than Sammy and so we got the win. We can't win with that kind of goal tending either. Woll is a TBD.

Smart thing to do is to wait out Tavares' contract and not mortgage future to compete now IMO

 

[myleafs]

we have no other option. Ideally you deal tavares b/c he is an anchor but he has full nmc/ntc. that leaves one of matthews/marner/nylnader that you trade and you also have to get rid of the coach if you still want to continue going for it.

There are 3 big problems for the Leafs

1) Tavares contract -> declining asset that has 11 AAV cap hit and is not good enough 5on5 for his cap hit. Can't deal him b/c he has full nmc/ntc

2) Coaching: Keefe has shown he can't do much in the playoffs to motivate, adjust or outthink opposition coaching. Simple example: Against tampa he broke matthews-marner not because he wanted to but cooper forced his hand as tavares was struggling. Against Panthers he didn't!!! He couldn't even adjust to the coaching tactics for freakin PoMo.

3) Cap crunch and upcoming contracts for Matthews/Nylander. Once they get paid (if they both re-sign) there won't be much left for quality depth (froward or defense); you can't compete in the playoffs with the same roster composition. There is enough evidence to suggest that they can't raise their game enough to compensate for not having quality depth.

Smart thing to do is to wait out Tavares' contract and not mortgage future to compete now IMO

I dont neccessarily disagree with everything you said but I dont understand how a team like Vegas can make the moves they have since they have been in the league but somehow we are just stuck with what we have for fear of making a bad trade or god forbid let our coach go for a different voice etc. The way things seem to be unfolding, is there anyone who is excited about next year?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I dont neccessarily disagree with everything you said but I dont understand how a team like Vegas can make the moves they have since they have been in the league but somehow we are just stuck with what we have for fear of making a bad trade or god forbid let our coach go for a different voice etc. The way things seem to be unfolding, is there anyone who is excited about next year?

At present, not in the least

 

[ToneDog]

I dont neccessarily disagree with everything you said but I dont understand how a team like Vegas can make the moves they have since they have been in the league but somehow we are just stuck with what we have for fear of making a bad trade or god forbid let our coach go for a different voice etc. The way things seem to be unfolding, is there anyone who is excited about next year?

The usual suspects???

 

[myleafs]

The usual suspects???

I had the speed dial blame on Dubas but if things just stay status quo then Shanny will be added.

 

[ToneDog]

I had the speed dial blame on Dubas but if things just stay status quo then Shanny will be added.

Yeah it is looking more and more that the 3 amigos were not the only ones bending Kyle over.

 

[BallardEra]

I had the speed dial blame on Dubas but if things just stay status quo then Shanny will be added.

Perhaps Shanahan has always been calling the shots and Treliving is the next puppet in line?