Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[ACC1224]

Wasting a year “evaluating” or “saving a bullet” is absolutely garbage and lacks the balls needed to win it all. Vegas went through head coaches like it was nothing until they found the right guy to lead them to the Cup. Florida fired their head coach after a President’s Trophy winning season with zero care because he failed in the playoffs. Gallant led the Rangers to the Conference Finals last year, did that matter when they got trounced in round 1 this year? Nope, they told him to f*** off because it wasn’t good enough. Bowness coached the Stars to a Cup Final and after two seasons of failing to meet expectations they canned him. Only here could the head coach get routinely outclassed by his peers and get rewarded with a contract extension.

If the Leafs are hoping Keefe is like Bednar they’ve got another think coming. At least Jared and the Avalanche could win a f***ing round before they won it all. It took Sheldon 4 seasons before he and the Leafs finally won 4 games in the same playoff year, before getting ousted real quick in the second round. All the regular season success is meaningless, especially since the team is capable of getting home ice advantage and has an abysmal home record under Sheldon in the playoffs.

It’s asinine. I couldn’t give less of a f*** if it’s “smart” for Treliving to hold off on firing him because it ensures his job security, I don’t give a care about his job security. I care about this team winning when it matters, which Sheldon is incapable of getting them to do. The idea of wasting another season of this cores prime being coached by a complete nimrod makes me sick. Another year of Tavares getting older and slower, another year where Mitch gets closer to UFA, a wasted year of Matthews and Nylander before their presumed raises kick in. Wasting Brodie’s last year, Gio’s last year. Just one more season to light on fire.

Not removing him today doesn’t guarantee he finishes the season.

 

[BallardEra]

You already know what they’re going to do, I don’t know if anyone remembers but they were talking about the stats on a mid season coaching change leading to deep runs earlier into Dubas’ tenure. I’d put money on the idea that Shanny thinks the team and philosophy is fine, they just need him to pull the right levers at the right time to galvanize the group around a mid-season coaching change.

Yep. Shanahan knows it did wonders when they replaced Babcock with Keefe mid-season as Keefe spurred the boys on an insane playoff run.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yep. Shanahan knows it did wonders when they replaced Babcock with Keefe mid-season as Keefe spurred the boys on an insane playoff run.

View attachment 719301

Covid hit that year and foiled his plan, they surely would have won it all if they still had a few more games and most importantly Shanny would look like a genius. Remember how clear it was made that it was specifically him that fired Babcock and not Dubas?

 

[BallardEra]

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Wasting a year “evaluating” or “saving a bullet” is absolutely garbage and lacks the balls needed to win it all. Vegas went through head coaches like it was nothing until they found the right guy to lead them to the Cup. Florida fired their head coach after a President’s Trophy winning season with zero care because he failed in the playoffs. Gallant led the Rangers to the Conference Finals last year, did that matter when they got trounced in round 1 this year? Nope, they told him to f*** off because it wasn’t good enough. Bowness coached the Stars to a Cup Final and after two seasons of failing to meet expectations they canned him. Only here could the head coach get routinely outclassed by his peers and get rewarded with a contract extension.

If the Leafs are hoping Keefe is like Bednar they’ve got another think coming. At least Jared and the Avalanche could win a f***ing round before they won it all. It took Sheldon 4 seasons before he and the Leafs finally won 4 games in the same playoff year, before getting ousted real quick in the second round. All the regular season success is meaningless, especially since the team is capable of getting home ice advantage and has an abysmal home record under Sheldon in the playoffs.

It’s asinine. I couldn’t give less of a f*** if it’s “smart” for Treliving to hold off on firing him because it ensures his job security, I don’t give a care about his job security. I care about this team winning when it matters, which Sheldon is incapable of getting them to do. The idea of wasting another season of this cores prime being coached by a complete nimrod makes me sick. Another year of Tavares getting older and slower, another year where Mitch gets closer to UFA, a wasted year of Matthews and Nylander before their presumed raises kick in. Wasting Brodie’s last year, Gio’s last year. Just one more season to light on fire.

Blinking at your first opportunity to set the cultural tone to keep a bullet in the chamber should be strike one already, shows that he either fundamentally doesn’t understand the job or Shanny is pulling the strings.

You already know what they’re going to do, I don’t know if anyone remembers but they were talking about the stats on a mid season coaching change leading to deep runs earlier into Dubas’ tenure. I’d put money on the idea that Shanny thinks the team and philosophy is fine, they just need him to pull the right levers at the right time to galvanize the group around a mid-season coaching change.

The one counter I would make is that I am not really convinced there is an upgrade out there right now, or that there ever was one.

And I think if you are going for the change for the sake of change, then you may as well just wait. If you do not like the pool now, then it can only get better with time, and firing a guy mid-season probably sends more of a message to your club than firing him before training camp... And firing Keefe should be more about a message to those core guys especially (unfortunately for a second time; although a lot more is placed at their own feet than the first time around).

At this point, the best coach is whichever one can not mess up the rest of the team while getting the core guys to show up... Or whichever coach eventually benefits from that happening naturally. It is not like these guys struggled to have opportunities to be difference makers or were held back. They just did not hold up their end.

Maybe Treliving sees it the same way and does not want to give them an (another) out.

 

[ACC1224]

View attachment 719305

IMO, any NHL caliber coach would have a similar regular season record. Many of those would have a better playoff record though.

 

[Stephen]

If Jon Cooper was looking for a job right now you don't hesitate at all letting Keefe go. But it all comes down to making change for the sake of making change, and if there aren't great options out there, it's not necessary... otherwise you're going to get a less than ideal candidate, roll with them for a while and then other names will popup.

Plus if the Leafs go in the ditch at any point, they'll be able to use that bullet then.

I am curious to see how he'll behave without a boss-partner-in-crime who makes him apologize to Mitch though. Don't think the key to his flaws is necessarily the motivation piece, but what will he look like when there isn't a GM to override him when sending a message?

 

[BallardEra]

I am curious to see how he'll behave without a boss-partner-in-crime who makes him apologize to Mitch though. Don't think the key to his flaws is necessarily the motivation piece, but what will he look like when there isn't a GM to override him when sending a message?

This is exactly why he is the wrong choice for coach. Maybe it was Shanahan who wanted him to walk back the comments? Maybe it was Dubas?

Either way, he lost respect from many players in that room when he did that so if he comes back now talking "tough" with an edge, those same players will be laughing at him.

 

[3blizzard4]

Keefe: I would like to apologize to the players for not getting fired.

 

[andora]

Wasting a year “evaluating” or “saving a bullet” is absolutely garbage and lacks the balls needed to win it all. Vegas went through head coaches like it was nothing until they found the right guy to lead them to the Cup. Florida fired their head coach after a President’s Trophy winning season with zero care because he failed in the playoffs. Gallant led the Rangers to the Conference Finals last year, did that matter when they got trounced in round 1 this year? Nope, they told him to f*** off because it wasn’t good enough. Bowness coached the Stars to a Cup Final and after two seasons of failing to meet expectations they canned him. Only here could the head coach get routinely outclassed by his peers and get rewarded with a contract extension.

If the Leafs are hoping Keefe is like Bednar they’ve got another think coming. At least Jared and the Avalanche could win a f***ing round before they won it all. It took Sheldon 4 seasons before he and the Leafs finally won 4 games in the same playoff year, before getting ousted real quick in the second round. All the regular season success is meaningless, especially since the team is capable of getting home ice advantage and has an abysmal home record under Sheldon in the playoffs.

It’s asinine. I couldn’t give less of a f*** if it’s “smart” for Treliving to hold off on firing him because it ensures his job security, I don’t give a care about his job security. I care about this team winning when it matters, which Sheldon is incapable of getting them to do. The idea of wasting another season of this cores prime being coached by a complete nimrod makes me sick. Another year of Tavares getting older and slower, another year where Mitch gets closer to UFA, a wasted year of Matthews and Nylander before their presumed raises kick in. Wasting Brodie’s last year, Gio’s last year. Just one more season to light on fire.

100%

Blinking at your first opportunity to set the cultural tone to keep a bullet in the chamber should be strike one already, shows that he either fundamentally doesn’t understand the job or Shanny is pulling the strings.

You already know what they’re going to do, I don’t know if anyone remembers but they were talking about the stats on a mid season coaching change leading to deep runs earlier into Dubas’ tenure. I’d put money on the idea that Shanny thinks the team and philosophy is fine, they just need him to pull the right levers at the right time to galvanize the group around a mid-season coaching change.

200%

 

[PromisedLand]

Wasting a year “evaluating” or “saving a bullet” is absolutely garbage and lacks the balls needed to win it all. Vegas went through head coaches like it was nothing until they found the right guy to lead them to the Cup. Florida fired their head coach after a President’s Trophy winning season with zero care because he failed in the playoffs. Gallant led the Rangers to the Conference Finals last year, did that matter when they got trounced in round 1 this year? Nope, they told him to f*** off because it wasn’t good enough. Bowness coached the Stars to a Cup Final and after two seasons of failing to meet expectations they canned him. Only here could the head coach get routinely outclassed by his peers and get rewarded with a contract extension.

If the Leafs are hoping Keefe is like Bednar they’ve got another think coming. At least Jared and the Avalanche could win a f***ing round before they won it all. It took Sheldon 4 seasons before he and the Leafs finally won 4 games in the same playoff year, before getting ousted real quick in the second round. All the regular season success is meaningless, especially since the team is capable of getting home ice advantage and has an abysmal home record under Sheldon in the playoffs.

It’s asinine. I couldn’t give less of a f*** if it’s “smart” for Treliving to hold off on firing him because it ensures his job security, I don’t give a care about his job security. I care about this team winning when it matters, which Sheldon is incapable of getting them to do. The idea of wasting another season of this cores prime being coached by a complete nimrod makes me sick. Another year of Tavares getting older and slower, another year where Mitch gets closer to UFA, a wasted year of Matthews and Nylander before their presumed raises kick in. Wasting Brodie’s last year, Gio’s last year. Just one more season to light on fire.

I agree with you in principle.

That said, as long as Treliving is not mortgaging the future this year or the next I say we ride it out.

Reasons:
- As far as I am concerned, I am convinced that Leafs are not going to have any playoff success until Tavares is on the cap/roster.
- I think the best approach is for the Leafs to plan for the year when Tavares is off the cap.
- Meanwhile, keep collecting assets, draft well and remain status-quo i.e. boring off-season and boring TDL (unless of course there is a deal we can't refuse at all and we win the deal)

In the scenario, I described above you let Keefe be here for 2 years until Tavares is on teh cap come what may; once Tavares is off the cap you dump Keefe and hire a new coach with new vision, use Tavares' cap on constructive roster building.

All of it IMO starts with not overpaying Matthews/Willy and deciding on Marner whether or not we should dump him. if Marnar at 11 AAV is already over price imagine how overpriced he would be on his next deal.

We just gotta be patient until Tavares is off the cap. Treliving better not F it up though

 

[Racer88]

Not removing him today doesn’t guarantee he finishes the season.

While this is true he is also likely to have a good regular season and crap the bed in the playoff yet again. Unless he has a bad start to the season he most likely will be the coach heading into the playoffs and yet another wasted year

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

If Jon Cooper was looking for a job right now you don't hesitate at all letting Keefe go. But it all comes down to making change for the sake of making change, and if there aren't great options out there, it's not necessary... otherwise you're going to get a less than ideal candidate, roll with them for a while and then other names will popup.

Plus if the Leafs go in the ditch at any point, they'll be able to use that bullet then.

I am curious to see how he'll behave without a boss-partner-in-crime who makes him apologize to Mitch though. Don't think the key to his flaws is necessarily the motivation piece, but what will he look like when there isn't a GM to override him when sending a message?

The Leafs problem is they wait until the playoffs to go in the ditch so Keefe can ride the talent through the regular season and they don't know if he has learned anything until they lose in the post season again.

So do they extend him now or keep him lame? I'm not sure how you identify the ideal candodate. Did anyone think Paul Maurice would be a great option? Some times you don't need a great coach, just the right coach for the lineup you have. Its not like this club didn't have 100pts before Keefe came along.

Maybe they are convinced there was a fatal flaw in the lineup and they are committed to that as the needed change. I hope there is a plan.

 

[horner]

The Leafs problem is they wait until the playoffs to go in the ditch so Keefe can ride the talent through the regular season and they don't know if he has learned anything until they lose in the post season again.

So do they extend him now or keep him lame? I'm not sure how you identify the ideal candodate. Did anyone think Paul Maurice would be a great option? Some times you don't need a great coach, just the right coach for the lineup you have. Its not like this club didn't have 100pts before Keefe came along.

Maybe they are convinced there was a fatal flaw in the lineup and they are committed to that as the needed change. I hope there is a plan.

The fatal flaw is that there are no leaders in the core , I mean no ORielly , Toews and extra .they are all the in the playoffs sometimes you need to get your nose dirty.

 

[LeafEgo]

Tree should get a bit of breathing room here. If there are no good long term options available right now going into the regular season with a regular season coach isn't the end of the world.

It might take some time to fix the damage and get all the right pieces in place. Five years of Dubie won't be remedied in one offseason.

 

[horner]

I agree with you in principle.

That said, as long as Treliving is not mortgaging the future this year or the next I say we ride it out.

Reasons:
- As far as I am concerned, I am convinced that Leafs are not going to have any playoff success until Tavares is on the cap/roster.
- I think the best approach is for the Leafs to plan for the year when Tavares is off the cap.
- Meanwhile, keep collecting assets, draft well and remain status-quo i.e. boring off-season and boring TDL (unless of course there is a deal we can't refuse at all and we win the deal)

In the scenario, I described above you let Keefe be here for 2 years until Tavares is on teh cap come what may; once Tavares is off the cap you dump Keefe and hire a new coach with new vision, use Tavares' cap on constructive roster building.

All of it IMO starts with not overpaying Matthews/Willy and deciding on Marner whether or not we should dump him. if Marnar at 11 AAV is already over price imagine how overpriced he would be on his next deal.

We just gotta be patient until Tavares is off the cap. Treliving better not F it up though

That is what we should have done last yr. Nothing

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs problem is they wait until the playoffs to go in the ditch so Keefe can ride the talent through the regular season and they don't know if he has learned anything until they lose in the post season again.

So do they extend him now or keep him lame? I'm not sure how you identify the ideal candodate. Did anyone think Paul Maurice would be a great option? Some times you don't need a great coach, just the right coach for the lineup you have. Its not like this club didn't have 100pts before Keefe came along.

Maybe they are convinced there was a fatal flaw in the lineup and they are committed to that as the needed change. I hope there is a plan.

Having watched the entire Dubas-Keefe project, there's a pretty long shopping list of warning signs this team won't flip a switch and turn into Tampa 2.0.

 

[TorontoTrades]

If Q is approved to return and we keep Keefe im going to be disappointed. We should be changing coach regardless. How does Keefe not have the most blame.. his job is to get the team ready to play and make adjustments.

 

[EGL22]

Matthews loves playing for Keefe and he already lost his BFF Dubas.
Ongoing contract talks might get rattled with a Keefe firing so keep him around until they are sure which way the Auston dice roll.

Then they have enough info to decide his fate.

 

[horner]

Matthews loves playing for Keefe and he already lost his BFF Dubas.
Ongoing contract talks might get rattled with a Keefe firing so keep him around until they are sure which way the Auston dice roll.

Then they have enough info to decide his fate.

I get what you are saying but this isn't Mathews team if this rattles his cage so be it . Again we haven't won anything .

 

[horner]

I agree with you in principle.

That said, as long as Treliving is not mortgaging the future this year or the next I say we ride it out.

Reasons:
- As far as I am concerned, I am convinced that Leafs are not going to have any playoff success until Tavares is on the cap/roster.
- I think the best approach is for the Leafs to plan for the year when Tavares is off the cap.
- Meanwhile, keep collecting assets, draft well and remain status-quo i.e. boring off-season and boring TDL (unless of course there is a deal we can't refuse at all and we win the deal)

In the scenario, I described above you let Keefe be here for 2 years until Tavares is on teh cap come what may; once Tavares is off the cap you dump Keefe and hire a new coach with new vision, use Tavares' cap on constructive roster building.

All of it IMO starts with not overpaying Matthews/Willy and deciding on Marner whether or not we should dump him. if Marnar at 11 AAV is already over price imagine how overpriced he would be on his next deal.

We just gotta be patient until Tavares is off the cap. Treliving better not F it up though

Keep what draft picks we have
Sign UFA's that fit
Schenn 2 mil for 3 yrs
Bertuzzi 5 mil for 5 yrs
Acurri 1.3 mil for 3 yrs
Hathaway 1.5 mil for 2 yrs
OEL 2 mil for 2 yr
ORielly 5 mil for 3 yrs

Trade
Murray or buyout
Hopefully Muzzin retires or LTIR

 

[fahad203]

View attachment 719305

This is exactly what his agent is selling to the leafs. Look at the numbers, they are decent

Now lets look at the facts

Losing to Montreal being up 3-1
Until this year he was 0-7 in closing out series clinching games
Losing to Zamboni driver
Almost getting swept by the florida panthers

Data/Stat doesn't show those do they

This dude is a fraud. He would never be able to step a foot in Vegas, Boston had he had that kind of record

 

[geo25]

#FireShanahan

This moron has no clue how to build a team.

Bingo!

 

[ToneDog]

#FireShanahan

This moron has no clue how to build a team.

He knows how to execute a tank. Building a team, not so much. Again, there is a reason we have not won in 56 years and we not only suck on the ice when it counts, we suck off the ice as well. Empty SBC arena is the only way to get the idiots to wake up and that is not happening. Bend over, cough and accept your fate.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Let's see.... core staying.... Keefe staying... Is it too early to change my username to 57 Years No Cup?