Shea Theodore Out Until Playoffs

[WhataKnight]

And notice the narative is always that the player stays "injured" until the end of the regular seasons, and not the player has returned early because playoffs.

It’s kinda like a Mandela Effect.

Example: everyone keeps repeating the narrative that Stone didn’t rupture his spleen, allowing Vegas to perform Cap gymnastics….neatly glossing over how obviously gassed both he and Hertl looked on the ice at the end of a single seven game series.

If it’s always cheating to stay out until the POs to people, the concept of rushing to come back isn’t a visible spot on the horizon.

I’ll also add that we lost a freaking awesome player in a high-stakes exhibition tournament one of our guys a backed out on of his own accord. I’m upset Theodore’s injured first, rolling my eyes thinking “here we go again” second, and waiting to see what comes of it third.

We lost a stud defenseman. This isn’t a “confetti moment.”

 

[AvroArrow]

NHLPA will never agree to any of these.

Ask the team that lost in the Stanley Cup finals because of their opponent circumventing the cap, it's becoming a massive issue. This will be the 3rd time Vegas has pulled this stunt. Player deemed far too hurt for game 82, perfectly healthy for the playoffs.

I don't see why players would be opposed to the 1st proposal.

Players placed on LTIR must be activated by game 82 otherwise he is ineligible to play for the playoffs. You're making the playoffs and expecting the player back ? Cool manage your cap appropriately.

You're saying it's unfair that you can't spend up to the cap ? Cool put the player on LTIR, you now have his cap space free to acquire other players to spend up to the cap.

You want to be able to add players equal to the cap of the player that is on LTIR + Get the player on LTIR back ? No.

The best time to implement this is now, with the rising cap it will be easy to introduce. If the cap goes up 5M and we implement this, GMs should be smart and don't spend up to the entire maximum cap, stay 5Mish under so you have flexibility in case of injuries.

It’s kinda like a Mandela Effect.

Example: everyone keeps repeating the narrative that Stone didn’t rupture his spleen, allowing Vegas to perform Cap gymnastics….neatly glossing over how obviously gassed both he and Hertl looked on the ice at the end of a single seven game series.

If it’s always cheating to stay out to people, the concept of rushing to come back isn’t a visible spot on the horizon.

Nobody is denying his injury, not sure who you saw claiming he didn't injure his spleen. They are questioning when he actually became healthy. It's obvious to anyone to that he was healthy well before the playoffs started, but was kept on LTIR so they could circumvent the cap.

Far too injured for the most meaningless game of the season, game 82, when the playoffs were clinched. Perfectly healthy for the most violent and difficult time of the year, the playoffs.

 

[Schennanigans]

Lmao. Vegas needs a * next to their name.

 

[WhataKnight]

I’d certainly argue that the bolded makes my point.

He had three points in that series and did not look like himself at all towards the end of that series. He rushed back, and was visibly not perfectly healthy.

Nobody is denying his injury, not sure who you saw claiming he didn't injure his spleen. They are questioning when he actually became healthy. It's obvious to anyone to that he was healthy well before the playoffs started, but was kept on LTIR so they could circumvent the cap.

Far too injured for the most meaningless game of the season, game 82, when the playoffs were clinched. Perfectly healthy for the most violent and difficult time of the year, the playoffs.

 

[hangman005]

I’d certainly argue that the bolded makes my point.

He had three points in that series and did not look like himself at all towards the end of that series. He rushed back, and was visibly not perfectly healthy.

Frankly I'd say he was sub 50% aside from being in the right spot to get a couple of tips he was a liability. I know I was thinking towards the end, that a completely unproven in the playoffs Dorofeyev couldn't be any worse.

 

[hangman005]

I think the fundamental complaint is that if a player is healthy enough to play in the playoffs, they are also healthy enough to play in the regular season.

That makes the assumption the player is healthy to play in playoffs, but because it's playoffs players want to play whether they are healthy enough or not, Look at Tkachuck the year we beat them, No way in hell was he healthy for Game 4, but it's the playoffs, heck it was the Final, he was playing, if Florida won that game, he probably toughs it out for game 5.

 

[AvroArrow]

I’d certainly argue that the bolded makes my point.

He had three points in that series and did not look like himself at all towards the end of that series. He rushed back, and was visibly not perfectly healthy.

Healthy enough to play in the most physical part of the year though. Everyone gets banged up in the playoffs, guys play with broken bones and torn ligaments every year.

You guys just can't admit your team repeatedly abuses the same loophole to circumvent the cap. We had a cap implemented for a reason, so larger market teams like Toronto for example, couldn't just buy every single free agent and spend 2x or 3x more on their roster than the rest. And also because it provided cost certainty for owners, and smaller market teams wouldn't fold because bigger teams would just outbid them for every star player.

Either just get rid of the cap, or fix LTIR. I prefer the latter and provided what I think is the best solution to doing so. Teams wouldn't be penalized for losing a guy to injury, and guys that are hurt near the end of the year could still be activated in a cap compliant roster and play in the playoffs.

 

[Zerotonine]

So Vegas is getting Rantanen?? Or is there truth behind the Marchand rumor lol pick your poison i guess.

Yet the Oilers will be the ones investigated when Kane comes back game 1 of the playoffs

 

[gstommylee]

Healthy enough to play in the most physical part of the year though. Everyone gets banged up in the playoffs, guys play with broken bones and torn ligaments every year.

You guys just can't admit your team repeatedly abuses the same loophole to circumvent the cap. We had a cap implemented for a reason, so larger market teams like Toronto for example, couldn't just buy every single free agent and spend 2x or 3x more on their roster than the rest. And also because it provided cost certainty for owners, and smaller market teams wouldn't fold because bigger teams would just outbid them for every star player.

Either just get rid of the cap, or fix LTIR. I prefer the latter and provided what I think is the best solution to doing so. Teams wouldn't be penalized for losing a guy to injury, and guys that are hurt near the end of the year could still be activated in a cap compliant roster and play in the playoffs.

You have no idea how unions work. They hate the idea of restricting players. The only reason why the NHLPA eventually agreed to the cap was cause players were going to lose money. NHL isn't getting rid of the cap and second NHLPA will never approve any rule change that restricts healthy players from being able to play. Any attempt do either that basically causes another lost season or another long work stoppage...

So Vegas is getting Rantanen?? Or is there truth behind the Marchand rumor lol pick your poison i guess.

Yet the Oilers will be the ones investigated when Kane comes back game 1 of the playoffs

lol Vegas can't afford Rantanen...

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I don't see the issue, Vegas isn't breaking any rules.

There was a Quranic story (i think) where the Israelites were not to fish on the Sabbath as per God's orders. So they decided to freeze the water on Friday and all the fish that got frozen were then collected on a Saturday.

The Israelites saw no issue with this, as they didn't break any rules.

God turned them all into monkeys.

 

[K1984]

First of all the NHL won't let teams use LTIR just for the sake of using it. Second of all there has been ZERO rule breaking. What is actually rule breaking is putting a healthy guy on LTIR. No doctor would risk his medical lisence by making up an injury and lying to the league about it.

Ever consider that time line of injuries do happen to sometimes lineup to where the player is cleared to play when the playoffs happen. There is nothing against the rules of what vegas is doing. Injuries happen and the rules do ALLOW for a team to put a player on LTIR when they can't afford to replace the hurt player which AGAIN the NHL has to sign off on it and use that cap space to replace said player or add additional players to the roster to the max of that cap hit.


If NHL actually ingored abuse of LTIR and it comes back to find out that there being some legit case of medical forgery and made up reports just so teams can LTIR someone, there can be some very very huge legal immplications both against the league, team and the doctors. Medical fraud is very much ILLEGAL.

It really shouldn’t complicated to understand that it’s possible that going on LTIR is legitimate, but holding them on there until coincidentally Game 1 every single season isn’t.

 

[WhataKnight]

Healthy enough to play in the most physical part of the year though. Everyone gets banged up in the playoffs, guys play with broken bones and torn ligaments every year.

You guys just can't admit your team repeatedly abuses the same loophole to circumvent the cap. We had a cap implemented for a reason, so larger market teams like Toronto for example, couldn't just buy every single free agent and spend 2x or 3x more on their roster than the rest. And also because it provided cost certainty for owners, and smaller market teams wouldn't fold because bigger teams would just outbid them for every star player.

Either just get rid of the cap, or fix LTIR. I prefer the latter and provided what I think is the best solution to doing so. Teams wouldn't be penalized for losing a guy to injury, and guys that are hurt near the end of the year could still be activated in a cap compliant roster and play in the playoffs.

Again, Stone came back EARLY. LOL

Get it straight, please. The need to cling to that narrative dips credibility.

 

[gstommylee]

It really shouldn’t complicated to understand that it’s possible that going on LTIR is legitimate, but holding them on there until coincidentally Game 1 every single season isn’t.

None of us are medical experts. How do you know they are even 100% healthy by the time playoffs happen... Just cause one plays doesn't mean he's 100% HEALTHY. Players play in playoffs hurt a lot.

This whole idea of "fixing" something is stupid... Fans would be pissed if its their star player that has to be miss the entire playoffs cause of an long term injury in which has a "timeline" of being healthy again by the time playoffs start. DO you think oiler fans would be happy if that was mcdaivid that has to miss the entire playoffs over a injury that cost him most of the season? Again union would NEVER approve restricting the players from being able to play.

 

[K1984]

Again union would NEVER approve restricting the players from being able to play. So you want mcdavid to miss the entire playoffs cause he missed game 82 due to having a long term injury causing him to miss most of the season? I don't think so.

That’s not what I said, but keep moving the goal posts.

Also not complicated to figure out that the players would have to be complicit.

 

[WhataKnight]

 

[gstommylee]

nvm

 

[SJSharksfan39]

If the NHL is adamant about playing international Hockey (And they should), they have to do something about the schedule. Hockey teams should not be playing 4 game weeks and as many back to backs as they do. I like seeing all the teams come to play the Sharks, but maybe that needs to be adjusted. Maybe they do a Baseball kind of schedule where you play all the teams, but in the opposite conference you only play them once and then the next year when you play them it's in the opposite building. There are too many games and the season is too long as is.

 

[FissionFire]

'Once is by chance
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is a pattern'

This holds some value in a court of law so I assume it should here as well. The LTIR loophole isnt the issue; the NHLs lack of public honesty involving injuries is

I dont believe baseball, football, basketball, or soccer allow for teams to generalize players' specific injuries or timelines if they arent personal. Maybe this should change!

HIPAA laws mean that teams can’t disclose anything without player consent, not even the fact that someone is injured. It has to be bargained into the CBA if the owners want to be able to disclose injuries in detail. I doubt owners care enough to fight for that.

 

[WhataKnight]

Frankly I'd say he was sub 50% aside from being in the right spot to get a couple of tips he was a liability. I know I was thinking towards the end, that a completely unproven in the playoffs Dorofeyev couldn't be any worse.

THIS. Neither he nor Tomas Hertl looked as though they ready for the ‘the most physical part of the year’ they came back to try and help against a strong Dallas roster. Failed, but pushed for 7 games

Thanks for corroborating; I knew what I was looking at in that series as far as his health went- hopefully this pushes back against any attempts to gaslight.

 

[gstommylee]

If the NHL is adamant about playing international Hockey (And they should), they have to do something about the schedule. Hockey teams should not be playing 4 game weeks and as many back to backs as they do. I like seeing all the teams come to play the Sharks, but maybe that needs to be adjusted. Maybe they do a Baseball kind of schedule where you play all the teams, but in the opposite conference you only play them once and then the next year when you play them it's in the opposite building. There are too many games and the season is too long as is.

NHL tried that years ago and the fans didn't like it. Fans want to see every player especially star players. Star players gets butts in seats. but having less games vs other conference = divisional games becoming stale.

NHL Is not reducing total number games nor should fans want NHL to reduce the number of games cause that just means ticket prices just become even higher to cover the difference of revenue from playing less games which also means even more empty seats... NHL actually wants to increase games to 84 just to get make division games be = 4 games vs 7 teams.

HIPAA laws mean that teams can’t disclose anything without player consent, not even the fact that someone is injured. It has to be bargained into the CBA if the owners want to be able to disclose injuries in detail. I doubt owners care enough to fight for that.

there is a reason why injuries are vague to upper body or lower body they don't want players targeting those areas trying to possible knock them out of the game.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

And notice the narative is always that the player stays "injured" until the end of the regular seasons, and not the player has returned early because playoffs.

Why are they remaining on LTIR when they can play through their injuries though? If they're medically cleared to play, which is the only way they'd be allowed to play, even in the PO, they should not be on LTIR. How can you argue that the optics aren't just complete shit in this case?

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

Doing it again. Looool. Gary's team was lucky enough to receive help with Lehner's contract.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

NHL tried that years ago and the fans didn't like it. Fans want to see every player especially star players. Star players gets butts in seats. but having less games vs other conference = divisional games becoming stale.

NHL Is not reducing total number games nor should fans want NHL to reduce the number of games cause that just means ticket prices just become even higher to cover the difference of revenue from playing less games which also means even more empty seats... NHL actually wants to increase games to 84 just to get make division games be = 4 games vs 7 teams.

Then there are definitely going to be more injuries. And if Fans really want more games, then stop crying about player safety when they are part of the issue when it relates to player safety.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Welcome to Vegas, Trevor Zegras

Welcome to Zegras, Trevor Vegas?

 

[Armourboy]

Why are they remaining on LTIR when they can play through their injuries though? If they're medically cleared to play, which is the only way they'd be allowed to play, even in the PO, they should not be on LTIR. How can you argue that the optics aren't just complete shit in this case?

There in lies the issue with it.

No one is arguing that they aren't legit injuries, the problem is that every season they never seem to heal enough until game 1 of the playoffs. That is what people are calling BS on.

Stone for example obviously was still not right, my question on that is then why was he allowed to come back in the first place? There shouldn't be regular season healthy and playoff healthy. If that injury is bad enough to keep you out of regular season games then you have zero business being allowed to play playoff games either. " But its the playoffs " should never be a good enough medical reason.

The Stone example is why anyone arguing NHPLA anything is doing so from a hypocritical point, because apparently the NHLPA is perfectly ok with players who are injured playing when they shouldn't be. If its ok for the NHLPA to let them play hurt, then its not any crazier to expect them to be on the roster ( which is different than playing ) on Game 82.