Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part VI

[fasterthanlight]

If Vanek and Jokinen are okay with 1 year deals why not be in on both while simultaneously trying to get rid of Ward and Boedker?

 

[DrFeelgood]

Any line projections with the current roster/callups?

I wouldn't mind seeing something like

Pavelski - Thornton - Hansen
Labanc - Couture - Meier
Boedker/Karlsson - Hertl - Donskoi
Boedker/Karlsson - Tierney - Ward

 

[hohosaregood]

Any line projections with the current roster/callups?

I wouldn't mind seeing something like

Pavelski - Thornton - Hansen
Labanc - Couture - Meier
Boedker/Karlsson - Hertl - Donskoi
Boedker/Karlsson - Tierney - Ward

I put mine up on some other thread. I'm looking to split up the Joes still.

Couture-Thornton-Labanc/Donskoi
Meier-Hertl-Pavelski
Hansen/Boedker-Carpenter-Donskoi/Labanc
Boedker/Hansen-Tierney-Karlsson

Kind of hoping for a center upgrade though.

 

[Dicdonya]

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year. Hertl needs to play in the top 6. Depending on how the roster rounds out I think put him back with the Joes, or if a good winger finds his way onto the team, have him center cooch.

Last year he was wasted on the third line, and our team failed in large part because of low scoring. We still have tons of bottom 6 players, and a lack of top 6 players. Time to load up the top two lines and let the bottom 6 shake themselves out.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Meier-Couture-Donskoi
Hansen-Hertl-Boedker
Karlsson-Tierney-Carpenter/Ward

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Heed

 

[KirbyDots]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Meier-Couture-Donskoi
Hansen-Hertl-Boedker
Karlsson-Tierney-Carpenter/Ward

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Heed

I could live with this if we don't add to the top 6. Still think we must make a trade.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Meier-Couture-Donskoi
Hansen-Hertl-Boedker
Karlsson-Tierney-Carpenter/Ward

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Heed

Fully healthy, this lineup could still compete an entire 82 games and then playoffs. The deciding factor to me will be Meier, Labanc, Hansen, Donskoi and Boedker's scoring outputs combined. We have to have them rise up and over achieve.
I

 

[pappaf2]

I could live with this if we don't add to the top 6. Still think we must make a trade.

Gabriel landeskog come on down

 

[Jwec]

Hansen could score 20 and put 40ish points. Boedker probably scores over 35-points, possibly over 40. Also I think Labanc can score something like 20+20 but it is also possible that he needs time on AHL. Meier I think will need one more year at AHL.

But you know what. There is one player I definitely would target. And that is James Neal. We lack goalscoring and he would bring that massively. Duchene would be other guy I would be very interested but seems like Colorado is keeping him after all.

So trade for Neal and then maybe sign Jokinen.

Labanc/Jokinen-Thornton-Pavelski
Neal-Couture-Hansen
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Carpenter-Ward

Tierney as trade chip to get Neal.

Actually another fun scenario what DW could do and I would love it. Get Henrique from NJ. Henrique would be perfect 3rd line C and would free Hertl to play on our first line and then he could sign Jokinen/Jagr and lines would be.

Hertl-Thornton-Pavs
Labanc-Couture-Hansen
Jokinen/Jagr-Henrique-Donskoi
Karlsson-Carpenter-Boedker
Ward

Boedker could

Tierney again used as trade chip.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Hansen could score 20 and put 40ish points. Boedker probably scores over 35-points, possibly over 40. Also I think Labanc can score something like 20+20 but it is also possible that he needs time on AHL. Meier I think will need one more year at AHL.

But you know what. There is one player I definitely would target. And that is James Neal. We lack goalscoring and he would bring that massively. Duchene would be other guy I would be very interested but seems like Colorado is keeping him after all.

So trade for Neal and then maybe sign Jokinen.

Labanc/Jokinen-Thornton-Pavelski
Neal-Couture-Hansen
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Carpenter-Jokinen

Tierney as trade chip to get Neal.

I ****ing hate James Neal, but I'd take him.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I ****ing hate James Neal, but I'd take him.

Vegas will demand a 1st rounder for Neal and possibly more. I don't want to trade a 1st for a rental.

 

[Jwec]

I ****ing hate James Neal, but I'd take him.

Yeah. He is very dirty player and I don't like him as player much but he definitely would be great add to our team. And I get that his price would be 1st rounder and something BUT we could always try to extend him. Also something must be done. Our young guys could fill the void what Patty left if everything goes perfectly but I think because we have cap space and still our key players back we should improve our team.

Btw also that Hansen trade is looking better now that we lost Marleau. Hansen has extremely good contract and he at least will be useful player who has offensive contribution too.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Fully healthy, this lineup could still compete an entire 82 games and then playoffs. The deciding factor to me will be Meier, Labanc, Hansen, Donskoi and Boedker's scoring outputs combined. We have to have them rise up and over achieve.
I

It's time though. I'm tired of the rinse and repeat cycle for young kids wherein they come in, get a lot of icetime, do fairly well, then get recycled to the minors or bottom 6 roles throughout their career.

Think about it:

Karlsson comes in, is put on the top two lines and gets 24 points in 53 games during his rookie campaign in 2014-2015. We all rave and say hooray, we found a gem! A 23 year old talented Euro winger. Guess what happens? He is then demoted to bottom 6 minutes for the next 2 years, never really reaching his peak as a player. Now there's no hope for him to turn into anything more.

Tierney comes in, scores 21 points in 43 games, we all rave and say hooray! A homegrown 20 year old center is going to take some major steps forward! What happens? He gets pushed back down the lineup (probably rightfully so, but still) until he is now a questionable #3C long-term or a great #4C. That's his ceiling now.

Donskoi comes in, scores 36 points in 76 games, has a great playoff run, and everyone hoots and hollers about how we've found another gem. Now he's already had one bad season with middling production. Are we going to force him into the bottom 6 like we do everyone else who comes in and has a great rookie season? Can't wait.

Nieto comes in, scores 24 points in 66 games, shows some skill, some speed, and is a raw project but could actually develop into a top 6 forward with some patience. Guess what happens? Same thing that always happens, Sharks change him out, demote him, screw up his role until he's now a PKer? Then waive him and lose him. Maybe he'll recover in Colorado but we'll see.


Next is Labanc, and it's going to happen. If you watched the Sharks, when Labanc was on, you could tell he has the talent of a top 6 NHL player. He was not consistent, however he still put up 20 points in 55 games, and hustled every game. But guess what's going to happen to him? He will NEVER become consistent as a top 6 player where his skills really are, because we will demote him next year to the AHL or bottom 6 duty. He will stagnant, and that'll be it. Goodbye future top 6 player.


Now we've been lucky that Hertl still has enough skill and hockey IQ to weather this storm, because it happened to him too. When was Hertl his best? When did we all go, that's a top line player, FOR SURE. His first year. Just like everyone else on this list, he had a great first year (better than everyone else really). But then what happened? Well besides some injury woes, he became the team's default bottom 6 center. So now we're left wondering what will Hertl become instead of knowing for sure by now, his 4th year in the league.

 

[weastern bias]

Couture-xxxx-xxxx

I honestly don't understand lineups that project Couture as a winger, he's arguably been the best center on our roster for the last 3 years, and I've found him underwhelming in the few instances we have tried him on the wing

 

[Lorty]

Habs fan here.


Once Thornton retires (I assume it's his last year? Considering the contract... but I might be wrong), what will be your plan on the C depth chart? Will Pavelski play #1C, Couture #2C and Hertl #3C? Are you confident with your wingers?


Right now, the Habs are stacked on the wing, but need a top 6 C badly. Would trading Pavelski for say, Pacioretty, be a good idea for you guys?


Pacioretty - Couture - X

Your second best LW - Hertl - X


Yes/no ?

 

[hohosaregood]

I honestly don't understand lineups that project Couture as a winger, he's arguably been the best center on our roster for the last 3 years, and I've found him underwhelming in the few instances we have tried him on the wing

You're probably right but I've always found him to play really well together with Thornton and I'd be cool with them doing the 2 Centers thing with them together instead of Pavelski.

 

[KirbyDots]

It's time though. I'm tired of the rinse and repeat cycle for young kids wherein they come in, get a lot of icetime, do fairly well, then get recycled to the minors or bottom 6 roles throughout their career.

Think about it:

Karlsson comes in, is put on the top two lines and gets 24 points in 53 games during his rookie campaign in 2014-2015. We all rave and say hooray, we found a gem! A 23 year old talented Euro winger. Guess what happens? He is then demoted to bottom 6 minutes for the next 2 years, never really reaching his peak as a player. Now there's no hope for him to turn into anything more.

Tierney comes in, scores 21 points in 43 games, we all rave and say hooray! A homegrown 20 year old center is going to take some major steps forward! What happens? He gets pushed back down the lineup (probably rightfully so, but still) until he is now a questionable #3C long-term or a great #4C. That's his ceiling now.

Donskoi comes in, scores 36 points in 76 games, has a great playoff run, and everyone hoots and hollers about how we've found another gem. Now he's already had one bad season with middling production. Are we going to force him into the bottom 6 like we do everyone else who comes in and has a great rookie season? Can't wait.

Nieto comes in, scores 24 points in 66 games, shows some skill, some speed, and is a raw project but could actually develop into a top 6 forward with some patience. Guess what happens? Same thing that always happens, Sharks change him out, demote him, screw up his role until he's now a PKer? Then waive him and lose him. Maybe he'll recover in Colorado but we'll see.


Next is Labanc, and it's going to happen. If you watched the Sharks, when Labanc was on, you could tell he has the talent of a top 6 NHL player. He was not consistent, however he still put up 20 points in 55 games, and hustled every game. But guess what's going to happen to him? He will NEVER become consistent as a top 6 player where his skills really are, because we will demote him next year to the AHL or bottom 6 duty. He will stagnant, and that'll be it. Goodbye future top 6 player.


Now we've been lucky that Hertl still has enough skill and hockey IQ to weather this storm, because it happened to him too. When was Hertl his best? When did we all go, that's a top line player, FOR SURE. His first year. Just like everyone else on this list, he had a great first year (better than everyone else really). But then what happened? Well besides some injury woes, he became the team's default bottom 6 center. So now we're left wondering what will Hertl become instead of knowing for sure by now, his 4th year in the league.

Some of this is simply indicative of the minutes and roles players are given. Boedker had been a 50pt player for the Yotes but that was due mostly to his being used heavily on the PP and that he was given tons of minutes. He didn't get nearly as much opportunity here and therefor wasn't able to produce as much. Pretty much every player you mentioned was pushed down because we added depth. Now there are several instances where said players should have played over an aged or less talented vet, Ward, Haley, etc. The team needs to make some hard choices with who they see playing where and that should come at the expense of lesser declining players not youth that needs to develop.

Karlsson, I've always seen him as a 20+ point guy that the team can plug in anywhere in the lineup. Nothing wrong with that, he's useful, you can debate whether he's over payed.

Tierney, needs better linemates to produce. Also needs to play a more complete game. I'm hopeful he figures it out, but he could be tradebait.

Donskoi, had a sophomore slump, hopefully he turns it around and gets back on track. Needs to avoid injury and play with Couture.

Nieto, as you said, he might yet turn it around with the Avs where he'll get playing time. He suffered from not really having a defined role or place in the lineup, pin-balled around too much. You would see flashes of skill but not the finish that is required. Too small to make for an effective grinder and without the scoring to fit in the top 6.

Labanc, is different than the others. He definitely has top 6 upside and shouldn't be slotted as a 4th liner. He wasn't scoring and was sent down. He should have more opportunity to cement a spot. Here's hoping.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I honestly don't understand lineups that project Couture as a winger, he's arguably been the best center on our roster for the last 3 years, and I've found him underwhelming in the few instances we have tried him on the wing

-Can't win a faceoff
-Not very good defensively anymore
-Not a possession driver

XXX-Thornton-Pavelski
Couture-Hertl-XXX

It's really too bad we have zero real center prospects. If we had a halfway decent NHL-ready C prospect, this problem would solve itself.

 

[Gecklund]

Habs fan here.


Once Thornton retires (I assume it's his last year? Considering the contract... but I might be wrong), what will be your plan on the C depth chart? Will Pavelski play #1C, Couture #2C and Hertl #3C? Are you confident with your wingers?


Right now, the Habs are stacked on the wing, but need a top 6 C badly. Would trading Pavelski for say, Pacioretty, be a good idea for you guys?


Pacioretty - Couture - X

Your second best LW - Hertl - X


Yes/no ?

I personally would love that. Much better than the Couture for Patches trades but I don't think you'll find many Habs fans okay with this

 

[Lorty]

I personally would love that. Much better than the Couture for Patches trades but I don't think you'll find many Habs fans okay with this

It would have been a big no a couple months ago, but with Drouin, we can afford trading Pacioretty. We're absolutely stacked on the left wing.


Can Pavelski still play decent #1C hockey though? He's been playing on the right wing for a while, so I don't particularly remember his C abilities.

 

[Gecklund]

It would have been a big no a couple months ago, but with Drouin, we can afford trading Pacioretty. We're absolutely stacked on the left wing.


Can Pavelski still play decent #1C hockey though? He's been playing on the right wing for a while, so I don't particularly remember his C abilities.

Probably not. He might but judging from what happened at the WCOH I'm going to guess no

 

[Dicdonya]

I honestly don't understand lineups that project Couture as a winger, he's arguably been the best center on our roster for the last 3 years, and I've found him underwhelming in the few instances we have tried him on the wing

Jux already summed it up well and I agree. Cooch is our worst faceoff guy, and he's the worst possession center, teirney/4th liners not included.

Further to me, he just doesn't control the ice like a great center, but shows very good decision making when it comes to getting open and taking sneaky shots, something I expect wingers to do more than the centers. This is partly why I think he's quite good at scoring goals on the pp.

So ideally if someone like thornton or hertl can be the workhorse for him, and let him slide into more of the role pavs has now(find the soft spot and get ready to shoot) he might actually benefit from that.

Now he also might not, but I'd rather attempt it for a bit and see how it goes instead of banishing hertl to the third line again just because.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year. Hertl needs to play in the top 6. Depending on how the roster rounds out I think put him back with the Joes, or if a good winger finds his way onto the team, have him center cooch.

Last year he was wasted on the third line, and our team failed in large part because of low scoring. We still have tons of bottom 6 players, and a lack of top 6 players. Time to load up the top two lines and let the bottom 6 shake themselves out.

I agree with this. Hertl needs to be in the top 6. Pushes Ward out of the top 6 and he can center Couture or produce. Or maybe this. I am just spit balling here

Hertl-Thornton-Pavelski
Meier-Couture-Donskoi/Boedker/Labanc
Hansen-Tierney-Labanc/Donskoi/Boedker
Karlsson-Carpenter-Sorensen
Vlasic-Braun
Martin-Burns
Heed-Dillon
Jones
Dell
Ex: Ward

All this assuming we make no moves

 

[67 others]

It's time though. I'm tired of the rinse and repeat cycle for young kids wherein they come in, get a lot of icetime, do fairly well, then get recycled to the minors or bottom 6 roles throughout their career.

Think about it:

Karlsson comes in, is put on the top two lines and gets 24 points in 53 games during his rookie campaign in 2014-2015. We all rave and say hooray, we found a gem! A 23 year old talented Euro winger. Guess what happens? He is then demoted to bottom 6 minutes for the next 2 years, never really reaching his peak as a player. Now there's no hope for him to turn into anything more.

Tierney comes in, scores 21 points in 43 games, we all rave and say hooray! A homegrown 20 year old center is going to take some major steps forward! What happens? He gets pushed back down the lineup (probably rightfully so, but still) until he is now a questionable #3C long-term or a great #4C. That's his ceiling now.

Donskoi comes in, scores 36 points in 76 games, has a great playoff run, and everyone hoots and hollers about how we've found another gem. Now he's already had one bad season with middling production. Are we going to force him into the bottom 6 like we do everyone else who comes in and has a great rookie season? Can't wait.

Nieto comes in, scores 24 points in 66 games, shows some skill, some speed, and is a raw project but could actually develop into a top 6 forward with some patience. Guess what happens? Same thing that always happens, Sharks change him out, demote him, screw up his role until he's now a PKer? Then waive him and lose him. Maybe he'll recover in Colorado but we'll see.


Next is Labanc, and it's going to happen. If you watched the Sharks, when Labanc was on, you could tell he has the talent of a top 6 NHL player. He was not consistent, however he still put up 20 points in 55 games, and hustled every game. But guess what's going to happen to him? He will NEVER become consistent as a top 6 player where his skills really are, because we will demote him next year to the AHL or bottom 6 duty. He will stagnant, and that'll be it. Goodbye future top 6 player.


Now we've been lucky that Hertl still has enough skill and hockey IQ to weather this storm, because it happened to him too. When was Hertl his best? When did we all go, that's a top line player, FOR SURE. His first year. Just like everyone else on this list, he had a great first year (better than everyone else really). But then what happened? Well besides some injury woes, he became the team's default bottom 6 center. So now we're left wondering what will Hertl become instead of knowing for sure by now, his 4th year in the league.

This post is quote for truth worthy.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Like Pavelski and Marleau before him, Couture should be moved to the wing as a younger, better center forces the issue. Hertl should be a top-6 center this season and that's the only thing I'm 100% sure about.