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Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

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Enough of this. We're not arguing about a player not drafted by the Sharks in a thread that is specifically about Sharks prospects. Especially when that argument isn't anywhere near being in good faith and is just about playing petty gotcha or trying to crow about internet scouting chops for no discernible reason other than trying to get one over on the people you disagree with.

Move. The hell. On.
 
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Jargon said:
I’m not sure anyone can beat the absurdity of Hodge’s “you come for the king you best not miss” when someone pointed out how he was wrong about something, but there are a few weeks left.
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I will hear no slander for any quotes from The Wire, regardless of how it was used!
 
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Sam Dickenson is a future No.1 D and the 2024 draft will be remembered as the greatest in Sharks history because of him and Macklin regardless of anything else.

Hey, remember when people told us Erik Karlsson wasn't worth anything...and then he indirectly led to us getting us a new franchise Dman?
 
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Le Rosbeef said:
Sam Dickenson is a future No.1 D and the 2024 draft will be remembered as the greatest in Sharks history because of him and Macklin regardless of anything else.

Hey, remember when people told us Erik Karlsson wasn't worth anything...and then he indirectly led to us getting us a new franchise Dman?
Click to expand...
In all fairness, he wasn't worth anything prior to his monster season.
 
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Le Rosbeef said:
Sam Dickenson is a future No.1 D and the 2024 draft will be remembered as the greatest in Sharks history because of him and Macklin regardless of anything else.

Hey, remember when people told us Erik Karlsson wasn't worth anything...and then he indirectly led to us getting us a new franchise Dman?
Click to expand...
Ummm... he won the Norris and it took him to literally be the BEST DEFENSEMAN IN THE LEAGUE to be able to ditch his contract, let alone get any value in return. They still had to retain some salary and take on big salary dump from pitt too (hoffman, ruuta, and... well.... Granlund, who was clearly a salary dump until he became a top 30 NHL scorer:-)). Even then, if Pitt had a solid year, the selection woulda been well into the 20's with no dream of a big dick pick.

Simply put, Grier did a great job selling high and moving up to #11. But, he also got realllllly lucky that EK65 gave him a Norris season, that pitt missed the PO's, and that Dick fell to 11, when Anaheim, Ottawa, and several other teams had brain cramps and selected lower ranked and worse players at those slots.
 
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Le Rosbeef said:
Sam Dickenson is a future No.1 D and the 2024 draft will be remembered as the greatest in Sharks history because of him and Macklin regardless of anything else.

Hey, remember when people told us Erik Karlsson wasn't worth anything...and then he indirectly led to us getting us a new franchise Dman?
Click to expand...
Also, yes, the 2024 Draft will be a revolutionary one most likely, kinda like the 2003 draft was.

And like 2003, I hope its not just Dick and Mack. i would love to see LSW, Cherny, and maybe even one of the depth guys make an NHL run too. if you get 4 NHL players, including two stars, thats a draft for the ages.

BTW, 2023 is shapinup pretty nicely too. Smith is likely to be a NHL star of the future, but Cagnoni is 2nd the AHL in scoring as a 19 year old. Haltunnen looked solid in his short pro debut and seems to have NHL potential for sure to go along with his elite shot. Pohlcamp looks liekly to a pro run too with how he is doing in denver, and of course Musty remains a highly touted prospect with likely NHL future despite this year's setbacks. Even Landen is doing reasonably well. They could easily get 4 or 5 NHL players from that draft too!

Getting 8 NHL players, including at least 3 or 4 top liners/top pair D in two drafts would be able the fastest rebuild of all time. Tip the hate to grier and his staff. Smith and celly were not skill picks as they were the result of just stinking and lucky lottery. But the rest were much more skill based, tactical trade based, and good scouting.

p.s.: I cant believe we also have Askarov. Man, what a two years its been for the future sharks.
p.p.s.: I also am excited for warsofsky. Youngest coach in the NHL, youngest coach to lead to a kelly cup final (ECHL championship), and younget coach to win a Calder cup. This guy has won atall levels, and the trasformation he has engineered this season is genious. I mean, he took a team in shambles with no work ethic or team identity, faced huge adversity with the injury of his star rookie right off the bat, and then turned them month or two later into a squad that beat t best team in the east in their own barn deservingly. Ummm... wow... Imagine wht he can do with a truly potent and complete roster.
 
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Two other components of preparing Karlsson for increased value:

1. Moving Burns, freeing Karl for complete PP/play driving ownership
2. Quinn’s system

A 70 point, less offensive first Karlsson probably doesn’t get Pitt’s 1st
 
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TheBeard said:
In all fairness, he wasn't worth anything prior to his monster season.
Click to expand...

True, but that season he did - and yes the stars aligned - and ultimately netted us Dickenson.

Way too early for a redraft but based on this season so far, Dickenson is going a lot higher than 11. He's currently pacing 40 goals and 120+ points. If we add Schaefer (or any of the other big 3) as well next summer, we'll have made out like bandits.
 
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sampler said:
Ummm... he won the Norris and it took him to literally be the BEST DEFENSEMAN IN THE LEAGUE to be able to ditch his contract, let alone get any value in return. They still had to retain some salary and take on big salary dump from pitt too (hoffman, ruuta, and... well.... Granlund, who was clearly a salary dump until he became a top 30 NHL scorer:)). Even then, if Pitt had a solid year, the selection woulda been well into the 20's with no dream of a big dick pick.

Simply put, Grier did a great job selling high and moving up to #11. But, he also got realllllly lucky that EK65 gave him a Norris season, that pitt missed the PO's, and that Dick fell to 11, when Anaheim, Ottawa, and several other teams had brain cramps and selected lower ranked and worse players at those slots.
Click to expand...
I think some credit has to be given to management and the coaching staff for allowing Erik Karlsson to play the kind of game that would allow him a 100 point season as well. Some of it was luck but he isn’t putting up that season anywhere else
 
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sampler said:
Also, yes, the 2024 Draft will be a revolutionary one most likely, kinda like the 2003 draft was.

And like 2003, I hope its not just Dick and Mack. i would love to see LSW, Cherny, and maybe even one of the depth guys make an NHL run too. if you get 4 NHL players, including two stars, thats a draft for the ages.

BTW, 2023 is shapinup pretty nicely too. Smith is likely to be a NHL star of the future, but Cagnoni is 2nd the AHL in scoring as a 19 year old. Haltunnen looked solid in his short pro debut and seems to have NHL potential for sure to go along with his elite shot. Pohlcamp looks liekly to a pro run too with how he is doing in denver, and of course Musty remains a highly touted prospect with likely NHL future despite this year's setbacks. Even Landen is doing reasonably well. They could easily get 4 or 5 NHL players from that draft too!

Getting 8 NHL players, including at least 3 or 4 top liners/top pair D in two drafts would be able the fastest rebuild of all time. Tip the hate to grier and his staff. Smith and celly were not skill picks as they were the result of just stinking and lucky lottery. But the rest were much more skill based, tactical trade based, and good scouting.

p.s.: I cant believe we also have Askarov. Man, what a two years its been for the future sharks.
p.p.s.: I also am excited for warsofsky. Youngest coach in the NHL, youngest coach to lead to a kelly cup final (ECHL championship), and younget coach to win a Calder cup. This guy has won atall levels, and the trasformation he has engineered this season is genious. I mean, he took a team in shambles with no work ethic or team identity, faced huge adversity with the injury of his star rookie right off the bat, and then turned them month or two later into a squad that beat t best team in the east in their own barn deservingly. Ummm... wow... Imagine wht he can do with a truly potent and complete roster.
Click to expand...

Did Halttunen really look solid in his pro debut?

I’m thinking the fact he is back in the OHL, when he is absolutely eligible to play for the Cuda, indicates his pro debut was not all that solid.

To be clear: I’m optimistic about our prospects and Halttunen, but I don’t think we have to retcon prospect performance to feel good about things.
 
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jMoneyBrah said:
Did Halttunen really look solid in his pro debut?

I’m thinking the fact he is back in the OHL, when he is absolutely eligible to play for the Cuda, indicates his pro debut was not all that solid.

To be clear: I’m optimistic about our prospects and Halttunen, but I don’t think we have to retcon prospect performance to feel good about things.
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I thought he did. I mean he had 4 pts in his first 6 AHL games prior to his injury.

I thought him getting sent back was more about injury time missed and working on a few things than the fact that he was out of place with the Cuda. Really, I dont remember much justification for it, but I figured it was just about his age and stage in development. Hes 19, and barring having been drafted out of europe, would have HAD to go back to the O anyways. The O is where he belongs, but that doesnt mean that his pro debut was bad.

I fully expect haltunnen to be back with the Cuda next year and I would not be surprised to see him make a run for the NHL in 2-3 years at age 21 or 22.
 
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Hodge said:
There's a chance Sam Dickinson is so good it retroactively justifies giving up Stutzle in the initial Karlsson trade.
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Celebrini is good enough that it retroactively justifies every horrible decision made by Doug Wilson. If we had properly re-built, we very likely wouldn’t have been dead last in 2023-2024.

I don’t see Dickinson ever eclipsing Stutzle, who is a star 1C in his own right.
 
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sampler said:
I thought he did. I mean he had 4 pts in his first 6 AHL games prior to his injury.

I thought him getting sent back was more about injury time missed and working on a few things than the fact that he was out of place with the Cuda. Really, I dont remember much justification for it, but I figured it was just about his age and stage in development. Hes 19, and barring having been drafted out of europe, would have HAD to go back to the O anyways. The O is where he belongs, but that doesnt mean that his pro debut was bad.

I fully expect haltunnen to be back with the Cuda next year and I would not be surprised to see him make a run for the NHL in 2-3 years at age 21 or 22.
Click to expand...

So Luca Cognoni is also 19, and only eligible for AHL assignment due to his being born in December. Had Luca shown struggles with the level of competition of pro hockey, I think we’d all understand he’d be back in the CHL; but he very clearly didn’t struggle and here he is playing for the Cuda.

Halttunen, having been drafted out of Europe, is not bound by the CHL/NHL transfer restrictions. So for him to be reassigned to London, even as the Cuda are not exactly overflowing with scoring forward talent, is at least on some level a commentary on Halttunen’s pre-season performance.

Again, I’m not tryna knock Halttunen, but the fact that the Sharks kept a 5’9” defender on the Cuda and sent the 6’3”/+200lbs scoring forward back to the OHL seems to indicate Halttunen’s performance was something less than solid.
 
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jMoneyBrah said:
So Luca Cognoni is also 19, and only eligible for AHL assignment due to his being born in December. Had Luca shown struggles with the level of competition of pro hockey, I think we’d all understand he’d be back in the CHL; but he very clearly didn’t struggle and here he is playing for the Cuda.

Halttunen, having been drafted out of Europe, is not bound by the CHL/NHL transfer restrictions. So for him to be reassigned to London, even as the Cuda are not exactly overflowing with scoring forward talent, is at least on some level a commentary on Halttunen’s pre-season performance.

Again, I’m not tryna knock Halttunen, but the fact that the Sharks kept a 5’9” defender on the Cuda and sent the 6’3”/+200lbs scoring forward back to the OHL seems to indicate Halttunen’s performance was something less than solid.
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Believe he got hurt and did most of if not all his scoring on the power play
 
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