Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Yaroslav Askarov (w/extension, 2yr @ $2m per), F Nolan Burke 2025 3rd for Edstrom, VGK 1st, and G Chrona

[Patty Ice]

That Nashville development system that you regard so highly definitely seems to have felt more than comfortable sending him elsewhere after he was outperformed by multiple goalie prospects drafted later than him.

Do you honestly believe it was a talent issue? Not the fact that it was a contrast in attitude? Askarov wants to be a NHL goaltender, Trotz and co. (rightfully) wanted him to develop further. Askarov also wants to maximize his earnings potential and sees a youngish (relative to goaltenders) starter sign an 8 year deal and sees his path blocked and requests a trade. Right or wrong to you, it's a logical decision for a person looking out for their own self interest. That doesn't sit well with Trotz, being an old school guy. His hand was forced as Askarov would be a offer sheet target next off-season and lose him for pennies on the dollar. Trotz has to sell him off at max value at this point and it wasn't cheap.

So tell me again it was a talent issue. Trotz is all in and signed his Vezina nominee 30 year old starter over his most talented prospect, not a hard decision.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Do you honestly believe it was a talent issue? Not the fact that it was a contrast in attitude? Askarov wants to be a NHL goaltender, Trotz and co. (rightfully) wanted him to develop further. Askarov also wants to maximize his earnings potential and sees a youngish (relative to goaltenders) starter sign an 8 year deal and sees his path blocked and requests a trade. Right or wrong to you, it's a logical decision for a person looking out for their own self interest. That doesn't sit well with Trotz, being an old school guy. His hand was forced as Askarov would be a offer sheet target next off-season and lose him for pennies on the dollar. Trotz has to sell him off at max value at this point and it wasn't cheap.

So tell me again it was a talent issue. Trotz is all in and signed his Vezina nominee 30 year old starter over his most talented prospect, not a hard decision.

Yes I do, using a Bay Area example a lot of people complained about Tery Lance/James Wiseman never getting an opportunity.

Turns out most of the time people that watch these prospects every single day in practice are pretty good at evaluating what they will end up being, and if they are not being giving the chance it is likely for a reason.

 

[Hodge]

32 Thoughts report that NJ, Montreal, Utah and Colorado were also in on Askarov helps explain the high price we paid.

My argument was that we shouldn't give up much more than a 2nd since we could acquire him via offer sheet for that cost next offseason but doesn't sound like that was ever going to be a real option.

 

[Patty Ice]

Yes I do, using a Bay Area example a lot of people complained about Tery Lance/James Wiseman never getting an opportunity.

Turns out most of the time people that watch these prospects every single day in practice are pretty good at evaluating what they will end up being, and if they are not being giving the chance it is likely for a reason.

Ok but it's not a talent issue and Mitch Korn would be the first to tell you

 

[LilLeeroy]

Ok but it's not a talent issue and Mitch Korn would be the first to tell you

I'll try to ask him if I ever run into him

 

[Saskatoon]

32 Thoughts report that NJ, Montreal, Utah and Colorado were also in on Askarov helps explain the high price we paid.

My argument was that we shouldn't give up much more than a 2nd since we could acquire him via offer sheet for that cost next offseason but doesn't sound like that was ever going to be a real option.

Yea it wasn't based on how quickly he signed an extension

 

[CHALUPA]

Yes I do, using a Bay Area example a lot of people complained about Tery Lance/James Wiseman never getting an opportunity.

Turns out most of the time people that watch these prospects every single day in practice are pretty good at evaluating what they will end up being, and if they are not being giving the chance it is likely for a reason.

Sheng has said multiple league sources think his talent is elite. The risk is in his attitude.

 

[67 others]

That Nashville development system that you regard so highly definitely seems to have felt more than comfortable sending him elsewhere after he was outperformed by multiple goalie prospects drafted later than him.

I agree it isn't too bad if you look at it through the lens of Hertl+3rd for Askarov even if he has underperformed since being drafted.

The Nashville development System knows Saros is a workhorse goalie who wants to play every game and that Askarov sitting on the bench for 64 out of 82 games isn't conducive to getting the reps in.

A lot of teams have turned to a platoon in recent years, and old school workhorses are becoming rarer and rarer.

Goalies generally get the crap end of the stick in terms of pay and opportunity and Trotz is old school and expects young players to just sit down and shut up.

Its not the old days now. Players have more rights and options.

Almost Everyone in Askarov's draft class who were drafted near him have played 100-300 NHL games and made millions of dollars. Meanwhile he sits making $80000 a year and they keep putting roadblocks in his way.

I know people like to try to be Uncle Sam's accountant and act like Goalies should have no workers rights and stuff to the same degree as skaters, who get in years earlier and should just be good peons, but when a goalie is constantly being showcased in articles calling them the best goalie prospect in the world and the team keeps saying "Nah not yet. We are signing Wedgewood for 2 years and then you will get a shot", it becomes a workplace problem.

Its every person's right to want a workplace where they have promotion opportunity because they believe in themselves.

 

[StreetHawk]

32 Thoughts report that NJ, Montreal, Utah and Colorado were also in on Askarov helps explain the high price we paid.

My argument was that we shouldn't give up much more than a 2nd since we could acquire him via offer sheet for that cost next offseason but doesn't sound like that was ever going to be a real option.

If he was traded to another club that was unlikely to be an option in 2025.
What are the sharks options right now for a goalie that would be their starter when they hopefully return to the PO in about 3/4 years from now? If they don’t have anyone internal then they have to go to market.

They didn’t need to get one now but there are very limited options in free agency. Best ones don’t get to market.

 

[DG93]

32 Thoughts report that NJ, Montreal, Utah and Colorado were also in on Askarov helps explain the high price we paid.

My argument was that we shouldn't give up much more than a 2nd since we could acquire him via offer sheet for that cost next offseason but doesn't sound like that was ever going to be a real option.

This. Since it sounds like there was a bidding war, I'm just happy Grier didn't end up having to give up Musty. Giving up a likely late teens/early 20s pick and a likely future 3C in Edstrom isn't that bad given the context.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Sheng has said multiple league sources think his talent is elite. The risk is in his attitude.

I mean there is a long history of busts that fit that description to a T. Nashville gave him an opportunity to be their long-term started, but he imploded in the 2nd half of the AHL season. So they extended Soros and traded him.

 

[weastern bias]

That Nashville development system that you regard so highly definitely seems to have felt more than comfortable sending him elsewhere after he was outperformed by multiple goalie prospects drafted later than him.

I agree it isn't too bad if you look at it through the lens of Hertl+3rd for Askarov even if he has underperformed since being drafted.

We will never know how Nashville truly evaluated Askarov as they aren't going to put those ideas into the open after the fact, but it seems very likely that a Barry Trotz team that just signed multiple free agents in their mid 30s and just extended their 29 year old starting goalie for 8 years saw fit to trade away the 22 year old prospect who publicly requested a trade because they value winning in the short term and preferred to get out ahead of an awkward organizational situation and then got really good value in return

Maybe they think he's not very good, but maybe they just think he's not ready and are committed to the current moment over long term development

Yes I do, using a Bay Area example a lot of people complained about Tery Lance/James Wiseman never getting an opportunity.

Turns out most of the time people that watch these prospects every single day in practice are pretty good at evaluating what they will end up being, and if they are not being giving the chance it is likely for a reason.

As an avid follower of the Warriors and Niners I don't think these situations are comparable

Both Wiseman and Lance were gifted starting roles over Looney and Garoppolo that they never actually earned, they were pulled out of them due to injuries and it helped the organization revaluate their situation and they were luckily able to move on and get rid of those high level draft busts

Askarov was never afforded the starting opportunity because Nashville was too smart to gift it to him just to justify their draft investment, rather they were going to make him earn it, but he saw another avenue out and took it, this is basically the opposite of the Wiseman/Lance situation

 

[Timo Time]

Yes I do, using a Bay Area example a lot of people complained about Tery Lance/James Wiseman never getting an opportunity.

Turns out most of the time people that watch these prospects every single day in practice are pretty good at evaluating what they will end up being, and if they are not being giving the chance it is likely for a reason.

Okay but Wiseman/Lance came into the league with little-no college experience. Not comparable situations at all.

 

[LilLeeroy]

We will never know how Nashville truly evaluated Askarov as they aren't going to put those ideas into the open after the fact, but it seems very likely that a Barry Trotz team that just signed multiple free agents in their mid 30s and just extended their 29 year old starting goalie for 8 years saw fit to trade away the 22 year old prospect who publicly requested a trade because they value winning in the short term and preferred to get out ahead of an awkward organizational situation and then got really good value in return

Maybe they think he's not very good, but maybe they just think he's not ready and are committed to the current moment over long term development


As an avid follower of the Warriors and Niners I don't think these situations are comparable

Both Wiseman and Lance were gifted starting roles over Looney and Garoppolo that they never actually earned, they were pulled out of them due to injuries and it helped the organization revaluate their situation and they were luckily able to move on and get rid of those high level draft busts

Askarov was never afforded the starting opportunity because Nashville was too smart to gift it to him just to justify their draft investment, rather they were going to make him earn it, but he saw another avenue out and took it, this is basically the opposite of the Wiseman/Lance situation

I mean it was more about not giving all 3 of them much time to prove themselves more than a "Wiseman was actually a starter for x games while Askarov only started 2 games for Nashville" comparison.

Either way Nashville didn't believe Askarov was part of their future based on what they saw from him with his time as a prospect. Definitely would have been nice if the 49ers/Warriors could have gotten a comparable package though.

 

[CHALUPA]

I mean there is a long history of busts that fit that description to a T. Nashville gave him an opportunity to be their long-term started, but he imploded in the 2nd half of the AHL season. So they extended Soros and traded him.

The busts you listed don’t fit that same description, though. From the start with their pro clubs, Trey and Wise struggled with basics of the position. Both had “potential” but there wasn’t much of a book on them with the COVID situation, whereas Askarov looks a little more baked than they did.

He’s obviously still got more to develop, so this is still a risk. It just seems like this one makes more sense than Lance or Wiseman

 

[sampler]

The upside of Askarov is very big (your starting goalie at an affordable price for a decade). possibly franchise redefiningly big. Like, mcdavid Crosby big. Goalies are that way and a star 22 or 23 year old starting goalie can change everything, just like how Bennington revolutionized stl right away.

The down side is that they lose Edstrom and a 1st for nothing as Askarov completely implodes. This seems pretty unlikely. He may not be vezina level but it seems highly improbable that he will never really play effectively in the nhl. Even if so, they lose those assets for nothing, but neither of those is at all likely to redefine the franchise.

The other distinct possibility is that Edstrom and the first both never become influential nhlers. Bottom six perhaps but that’s it. Not much above replaceable. In fact this is actually more likely than not. Why? First because 32nd picks usually do not make consistent top 9 players and Edstrom is definitely not established himself as a sure fire nhler. Second, he’s 6th on the sharks in 21 or younger forwards behind ek, celly, smith, musty, and maybe Bystedt (arguably Chernyshov and haltunnen and even maybe gushkin too). In other words, he was not exactly the sharks top forward and was thus likely blocked from top 6 (or even 9) type importance.

The 1st is a wild card. If Vegas sucks and it’s a top 10-15 pick, then it could hurt. But if it’s in the 20s, then the probability of an nhl impact player (top 6F or top 4 D) there is also well under 50/50 and besides, such a player is very unlikely to be an impact player until 2028 or 29 maybe.

Askarov is going to be ready this year or next and far more likely to be a solid #1 goalie for a decade than a total flameout given his age and developmental stage. I’ll take a bird in hand (Askarov) over two in the bush (Edstrom and the 1st) any day.

 

[Alaskanice]

I mean it was more about not giving all 3 of them much time to prove themselves more than a "Wiseman was actually a starter for x games while Askarov only started 2 games for Nashville" comparison.

Either way Nashville didn't believe Askarov was part of their future based on what they saw from him with his time as a prospect. Definitely would have been nice if the 49ers/Warriors could have gotten a comparable package though.

My thinking is that Nashville decided on Saros first. That becomes our benefit.

 

[sampler]

The busts you listed don’t fit that same description, though. From the start with their pro clubs, Trey and Wise struggled with basics of the position. Both had “potential” but there wasn’t much of a book on them with the COVID situation, whereas Askarov looks a little more baked than they did.

He’s obviously still got more to develop, so this is still a risk. It just seems like this one makes more sense than Lance or Wiseman

Agreed. Askarov has two professional seasons of record. He’s not fresh from college or juniors. He’s played against men in Russia and here. He’s even had a taste of nhl play.

He’s not a fresh draftee being handed the keys. He has a two year extension to prove himself and to show that the Sharks will give him a chance. It’s a clear message that he will get a chance to prove himself (which is why he left Nashville) but that he’s not some anointed star. If he struggles and fails the Sharks just won’t equality him or will trade him a few years. Would suck, but that’s it…

I fully expect Askarov to make this one of the greatest deals in sharks history as he backstops the best group of prospects coming of age in sharks history.

 

[sampler]

My thinking is that Nashville decided on Saros first. That becomes our benefit.

Nashville is not rebuilding. They have a sure thing and would be crazy to let that go for a less sure thing. They added all the big money older guys to make a run while also stacking up 3 first rounders next year.

Its a great win for Trotz too. He has solid goaltending for 7 years, solid cup contending roster now, and is about to add three high quality prospects regardless of how the year goes.

The Sharks can afford the risk in net. Nashville cannot. The Sharks are looking for their future in net. Nashville is looking for their future outside of the net. Sharks have enough high picks in the system already (if you include a likely top five pick next year), so they need to add more surer things in the right developmental stage(21-23). Nashville needs to prep for 3-4 years from now when their vets are done.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I didn't really imagine that for Nashville to trade a young, cheap, and highly drafted prospect they must not have loved what they saw from him as prospect would be some highly controversial opinion.

They could have been wrong in their assessment I guess.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

Extend Mike Grier to 8 year, $8M per deal with a full NMC LOL.

MG is having such a great summer I'm thinking my username is too conservative!

 

[sampler]

I didn't really imagine that for Nashville to trade a young, cheap, and highly drafted prospect they must not have loved what they saw from him as prospect would be some highly controversial opinion.

They could have been wrong in their assessment I guess.

It’s possible they didn’t like what they had, but it’s also possible that they had no reason to turn over the net from a very good proven starter with a career 2.63, .917%?

There is one goalie who play each game. So you need just one real starter who will play 3/4 of the minutes. Definitely want to have as sure thing as possible there if you are a contending team. A terrible goalie can short circuit your chances pretty quick. Trotz is smart to keep Saros and it just so happens that Askarov got blocked and that’s it.

Makes sense for Askarov to ask for a trade too. Who wants to wait until 30 marinating in the minors? Perhaps he should have gone about if more professionally and quietly, but the feeling is fully understandable and Askarovs value is higher right now…

 

[Patty Ice]

I didn't really imagine that for Nashville to trade a young, cheap, and highly drafted prospect they must not have loved what they saw from him as prospect would be some highly controversial opinion.

They could have been wrong in their assessment I guess.

You are stating it as if it's a fact. They just believed he needed more development in the AHL, his agent didn't and Askarov saw a dead end.

 

[CHALUPA]

I didn't really imagine that for Nashville to trade a young, cheap, and highly drafted prospect they must not have loved what they saw from him as prospect would be some highly controversial opinion.

They could have been wrong in their assessment I guess.

I think there is risk in this move, but Nashville is in “win now” mode and they had a workhorse of a goalie they could already rely on. Saros fits their timeline better than Askarov, who isn’t a high level NHL goaltender yet. They could also think the red flags are way worse than we do, but in their situation I don’t think it would take a whole lot to stick with Saros.

Or the attitude issues are worse than we thought and he flames out very quickly, we’ll find out.

 

[sampler]

I think there is risk in this move, but Nashville is in “win now” mode and they had a workhorse of a goalie they could already rely on. Saros fits their timeline better than Askarov, who isn’t a high level NHL goaltender yet. They could also think the red flags are way worse than we do, but in their situation I don’t think it would take a whole lot to stick with Saros.

Or the attitude issues are worse than we thought and he flames out very quickly, we’ll find out.

Bingo. Sticking with Saros makes all the sense. The only reason not to is one of two things:

1. You are very confident Askarov is better. Ummm, hard to think that confidently since he’s practically never played in the nhl and his AHL numbers are worse than Saros NHL numbers. So this makes very little sense….

2. You need the cap space. This would be a reasonable purpose to take the risk on Askarov, but not good enough. Yes, Saros over Askarov costs Nash the opportunity to add a solid second liner or second pairing dman. But, such a player is never going to be as important as your number one goalie.

Nashville made the right choice for Nashville. Sharks made the right choice for sharks. I don’t think attitude was a main determining factor.