Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Cody Ceci and 2025 3rd for Ty Emberson

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tiburon12

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Jul 18, 2009
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And even then, it was still out of need. Edmonton is better off without Kane on LTIR so that they can accrue cap space throughout the season and therefore bring in a more expensive TDL piece and/or play Kane whenever he's healthy enough to do so.
No. It was out of want. You keep thinking Ceci had negative value to the EDM and that's demonstrably not true. They didn't need to trade him, they wanted to use the space to get a better defenseman. They didnt need to do anything.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Well that was my point except I do think the sharks needed Cody Ceci. If not Cody then A Cody Ceci type of minute muncher. Relying on old guys like Ruuta and Vlasic or glass disguised as hockey players like Emberson and Benning won’t help the forwards and putting too much on the plates of young guys like Thrun or Makh won’t help them either. All that’s left are Ferraro who struggles when asked to do too much and Wallman.
Having a minute muncher be a need only makes sense to me if you're sheltering someone or their play quality matches the role they're being asked to play. I don't think either of those things apply to Ceci here. Anybody can be thrown in there to take a beating even if you have health concerns. The Sharks certainly have body depth to handle some injuries occurring. No different than last year. The only defensemen that are worth sheltering is Muk and Thrun on the left side. That's what Ferraro and Walman are for and if Walman hadn't been acquired, Vlasic could've gone in there too.
 
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STL Shark

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No. It was out of want. You keep thinking Ceci had negative value to the EDM and that's demonstrably not true. They didn't need to trade him, they wanted to use the space to get a better defenseman. They didnt need to do anything.
No, it was literally out of need. They could not ice a full roster if they still had Ceci on the roster and Kane was not on LTIR (something that will happen at some point this season). That is quite literally 100% objective fact and thus they needed to do something.
 
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tiburon12

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No, it was literally out of need. They could not ice a full roster if they still had Ceci on the roster and Kane was not on LTIR (something that will happen at some point this season). That is quite literally 100% objective fact and thus they needed to do something.
lol no they didnt. Ceci's 3.25 came off and then they added Emberson (950) and Podkolzin (1.0) + have 975 in space (with Kane on the roster), which is 2.9xx. But that's for 13F 7D and 2 Goalies, which is more skaters than necessary.

All they would have had to do is stash/waive Brown (1.0 and an optional signing they elected to do) to the minors and they are under the cap with an extra player F skater.

They 100% did not need to trade Ceci, they just wanted to for the extra flexibility once STL forced them to do something.
 

coooldude

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At this point it is arguing semantics (which is what message boards are for). I think for a move to be considered a cap dump it needs to be a position of need or a future considerations trade such as Walman or Glass.

Player value in a cap league is inherently tied to their cap hit. It is entirely plausible that Edmonton with prior connections to Emberson value him at $925k as worth significantly more than Ceci at $3.25 million. You could say the value they place on Emberson at that cap hit over Ceci at his cap hit is worth a 3rd round pick to Edmonton.

This doesn’t mean Edmonton had to dump cap. Also for those saying no way Emberson was worth a 3rd round pick it is clear he was. Not for his on ice play entirely but his play at that cap hit was worth a 3rd round pick to Edmonton especially with his AHL coach wanting him.

Grier capitalized on a coach wanting one of his guys to get Ceci who is a player that provides more value and certainty to the Sharks as they integrate their young stars.

This is a win win trade which is what all trades are, but it is not “sexy” enough or interesting enough to say a trade is a mutually agreed upon transaction that both teams feel happy about.
The bolded part made me stare off into the distance and question my life choices for a little moment. 🙃
 

gaucholoco3

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Jun 22, 2015
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Vegas didn't take Hertl only because he was a cap dump but a cap dump deal isn't mutually exclusive to other things occurring during a trade. It's not one or the other. You can accomplish multiple objectives in the trade but part of that deal for the Sharks was absolutely dumping Hertl's long term cap hit. And I don't think we needed Ceci.
I do appreciate your consistency in saying that Hertl was a cap dump but then would you classify the Meier trade as a camp dump as well since the Sharks traded away more cap than they received?

I think if a player with a higher cap hit is traded it is not a cap dump unless done specifically for the primary reason of dumping cap. Hertl was not traded to dump cap he was traded because he asked for a trade. Same as Burns.

It appears to me Edmonton values Emberson with the connection to Knobloch. Especially because it is likely that the best available RD at the deadline is most likely going to be Ceci. There is no clear path for them to spend the freed up cap space.

On a side note I do think they chose not to match not because of this season but because they would be squeezed too tight next season.
 

TheBeard

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Jul 12, 2019
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Having a minute muncher be a need only makes sense to me if you're sheltering someone or their play quality matches the role they're being asked to play. I don't think either of those things apply to Ceci here. Anybody can be thrown in there to take a beating even if you have health concerns. The Sharks certainly have body depth to handle some injuries occurring. No different than last year. The only defensemen that are worth sheltering is Muk and Thrun on the left side. That's what Ferraro and Walman are for and if Walman hadn't been acquired, Vlasic could've gone in there too.
I don’t agree. We threw out a lot of worse guys than Cody and we ended up being pinned in our own zone 90% of the time. Mario was playing 23 minutes a game. Mario should not be playing 24 minutes a game. Thrun was playing 20 minutes a game. Thrun should not have been playing 20 minutes a game. I’m not concerned about sheltering defense but I am concerned that continuing to be pinned in our own zone for 90% of the game isn’t gonna do much for the development of the kids.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I’d like to hear how much more/less measured it sounds when spoken.
I appreciate that. I'm sure it's much less measured in a spoken environment. I'm a shaky public speaker.
I do appreciate your consistency in saying that Hertl was a cap dump but then would you classify the Meier trade as a camp dump as well since the Sharks traded away more cap than they received?

I think if a player with a higher cap hit is traded it is not a cap dump unless done specifically for the primary reason of dumping cap. Hertl was not traded to dump cap he was traded because he asked for a trade. Same as Burns.

It appears to me Edmonton values Emberson with the connection to Knobloch. Especially because it is likely that the best available RD at the deadline is most likely going to be Ceci. There is no clear path for them to spend the freed up cap space.

On a side note I do think they chose not to match not because of this season but because they would be squeezed too tight next season.
I might only say Meier isn't a cap dump because he was an expiring contract at the deadline rather than having term. Burns and Hertl definitely were traded because they asked out but I don't see that as a way to invalidate if it's a cap dump trade. I think it's a separate question. A lot of times guys asking out in a trade still won't give you the wiggle room to save on cap like the Karlsson trade. And I don't think it needs to rise to the level of a primary reason for it to be accurate to call it a cap dump trade.

I'm not sure what Edmonton's motivations were for not matching. My first reaction was to let Broberg go too because I don't buy him taking a next step into that sort of money. Holloway I was thinking they'd match but they chose otherwise. They maybe don't have the belief he'd be worth it either and was worth taking a 3rd. I don't think I'd agree with that valuation but I probably would've looked to make that work over that draft pick. We'll see what they do but they did get a few cheap forwards in the free agent market so they probably feel like they can use the space later on better players. That's possible.
I don’t agree. We threw out a lot of worse guys than Cody and we ended up being pinned in our own zone 90% of the time. Mario was playing 23 minutes a game. Mario should not be playing 24 minutes a game. Thrun was playing 20 minutes a game. Thrun should not have been playing 20 minutes a game. I’m not concerned about sheltering defense but I am concerned that continuing to be pinned in our own zone for 90% of the game isn’t gonna do much for the development of the kids.
Yes, we did throw out worse guys than Cody. I just don't think Cody is good enough for the role he'll be playing to keep us from being pinned in like last season. Cody isn't going to prevent Mario from playing 24 minutes a night. He's the #1 on the left side. Cody is probably the #1 on the right side. I bet both see 22-24 minutes a night next season. I agree Thrun shouldn't be playing 20 minutes a game and I think Walman's acquisition will allow them to lower that. I don't think Ceci influences that really. This team's blue line is still not talented enough to not get pinned in a shit ton. They should be better at the depth levels but at the top, they're playing in their end a lot for sure.
 

OversKy

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Oct 12, 2023
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Ceci has been awful his whole career and is a good example of why advanced statistics are garbage without an eye test. He's better than Benning who is imo barely playable but both are sacrificial dogwater defenceman for the rebuild. If he's good in the locker room that's a bonus to eating minutes but him and Nurse are a good reason why Edmonton didn't win a cup. I have nothing good to say about him the same as Benning because I'm not in the locker room but outside of that they are fledgling NHL skaters.
 
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