By the time SJ is a fringe competitor again he's gonna be close to mid-thirties.Multiple NHL coaching staffs seem to disagree since he's been playing top four minutes on playoff teams for about 5 years running.
By the time SJ is a fringe competitor again he's gonna be close to mid-thirties.Multiple NHL coaching staffs seem to disagree since he's been playing top four minutes on playoff teams for about 5 years running.
We should be trying to get to fringe competitor status by 2025-26 when he'll be 31/32.By the time SJ is a fringe competitor again he's gonna be close to mid-thirties.
I will say that the Polak over Demelo was not just the veteran thing but more of the playoff tested thing.Except Ceci is still playing in your top 4 which isn't a good thing (otherwise Edmonton would have kept him and/or not healthy scratched him during the SCF and his underlying stats would not be as bad as they are).
Ceci vs Emberson is not likely to be franchise altering, but I also just don't see it as a good or worthwhile move at this time. It feels like the Polak over Demelo situation of 2016 where you're giving up the potential upside of a late blooming young player with small sample size success for an older veteran who has proven to not be good but is a veteran. At least in that case, you weren't trading the younger player and simply just playing the known bad player.
If Emberson turns out to be a small sample size success but a flop over the long-term, so be it. I'd at least rather ride out that experiment with hopes that maybe he is Demelo/Middleton than get a mid round pick and/or have Ceci for his age 32-34 seasons. Just seems like a bad computation of risk/reward because the reward is negligible.
I don't mind saying he was a #4 on a competitive team. The issue is that that competitive team was willing to pay to get rid of his final year AND that's not what he's going to be asked to do here. Chances are real good that Ceci is the top RHD in minutes for the Sharks next year. And if he's paired with Ferraro, that pairing is not going to look good as a top pairing and is not the sort of pairing that's going to be very good at getting Celebrini and Smith the puck which is the primary goal of the upcoming season.I know it's a landmine, but Ceci was only scratched for game 2 in the SCF, and his minutes increased as the series went on. Played 17, 19, 18 minutes in G5-7, while Broberg (as an example) went down (17, 16:44, 14).
So I don't think that we should downplay the guy as some 7th D, he was relied upon for 2nd pairing minutes in the SCF and obviously contributed to the comeback.
EDIT: more minutes than Nurse, for example, in G5-7.
You're right about everything, I would only add... It will be better than it would have been without the trade. Was gonna be a long year, will still be a long year after the trade. (Edit: Unless there's an unexpected Emberson breakout)I don't mind saying he was a #4 on a competitive team. The issue is that that competitive team was willing to pay to get rid of his final year AND that's not what he's going to be asked to do here. Chances are real good that Ceci is the top RHD in minutes for the Sharks next year. And if he's paired with Ferraro, that pairing is not going to look good as a top pairing and is not the sort of pairing that's going to be very good at getting Celebrini and Smith the puck which is the primary goal of the upcoming season.
We don't need Ferraro-Ceci to "look good" as a top pairing we just need them to eat 23 of our toughest minutes every game without getting gassed or demoralized which they've both demonstrated they're capable of doing.I don't mind saying he was a #4 on a competitive team. The issue is that that competitive team was willing to pay to get rid of his final year AND that's not what he's going to be asked to do here. Chances are real good that Ceci is the top RHD in minutes for the Sharks next year. And if he's paired with Ferraro, that pairing is not going to look good as a top pairing and is not the sort of pairing that's going to be very good at getting Celebrini and Smith the puck which is the primary goal of the upcoming season.
What are you talking about? Of course Celebrini and Smith are going to share a lot of time with their top two minute eaters. And if they can't effectively get the puck to the forwards, which nobody currently slated to be in the starting lineup is really all that good at, it's going to get them gassed and demoralized.We don't need Ferraro-Ceci to "look good" as a top pairing we just need them to eat 23 of our toughest minutes every game without getting gassed or demoralized which they've both demonstrated they're capable of doing.
We certainly don't need them to spend much time sharing the ice with Celebrini and Smith. Ferraro and Ceci are here to fulfill the same role as Wennberg, Goodrow, Sturm and Kunin up front which will free up Walman and Thrun or Mukhamadullin to support our scoring lines.
That would be nice but that's not what this upcoming season is looking like.Basically all we should want at this point is 6 d-men who won’t spend 90% of the time pinned in their own zone.
Warsofsky should be managing the bench in a way that Celebrini and Smith end up playing mostly against other teams' bottom six forwards and on the power play, neither of which are situations Ferraro and Ceci will be heavily used in. Also Ceci is good at moving the puck.What are you talking about? Of course Celebrini and Smith are going to share a lot of time with their top two minute eaters. And if they can't effectively get the puck to the forwards, which nobody currently slated to be in the starting lineup is really all that good at, it's going to get them gassed and demoralized.
No, it’s not gonna happen in one offseason, but with the talent up front that should be the short term goal. Even still, not having Vlasic and Burroughs and Addison and Macdonald and Okhtiuk is addition by subtraction.That would be nice but that's not what this upcoming season is looking like.
I disagree but regardless it's just not going to happen where a team dedicating itself to the development of players like Celebrini and Smith are going to play away from their top two defensemen in ice time. That's just not realistic. Also, Ceci is not good at moving the puck. He may be better than what we've had but he's not good.Warsofsky should be managing the bench in a way that Celebrini and Smith end up playing mostly against other teams' bottom six forwards and on the power play, neither of which are situations Ferraro and Ceci will be heavily used in. Also Ceci is good at moving the puck.
This simply won't happen on the road when the opponents have last change, opossing coaches are going to be targeting our teenaged centermen until they put enough play on film to make opposing scouting reports encourage them to avoid doing soWarsofsky should be managing the bench in a way that Celebrini and Smith end up playing mostly against other teams' bottom six forwards and on the power play, neither of which are situations Ferraro and Ceci will be heavily used in. Also Ceci is good at moving the puck.
I don’t see an argument that he is better than Walman. Walman plays just as many “tough minutes” as Ceci does and Walman’s “bad year” in terms of results is basically Ceci’s norm.Serious question, is CC our best defenseman on paper?
Maybe last year by the analytics, but Ceci has played far more games at a higher level of intensity (playoffs). Don't get me wrong, they're both best as 2nd pairing, and I'm not going to die on this hill, but I do see the argument for Ceci.I don’t see an argument that he is better than Walman. Walman plays just as many “tough minutes” as Ceci does and Walman’s “bad year” in terms of results is basically Ceci’s norm.
My favorite part of the pens draft pick Grier made was moving up to get Dickinson and holding onto 33 that’s has been his best trade so far imoThe Devils pick was in the 21-30 range, so I’m not sure there was much luck with how that trade turned out. The Pens pick turning out better wasn’t really luck either. Grier like many probably saw the Penguins would very likely not be a good team and made the trade with the expectation they’d probably end up with a top 15 pick which they did . I think Grier did well on both trades and probably deserves a bit more credit than simply lucking out when things turn out the way he had probably planned
If he would have waited for draft day it would have cost that.My favorite part of the pens draft pick Grier made was moving up to get Dickinson and holding onto 33 that’s has been his best trade so far imo
You mean like we did?What's genuinely hilarious is that Oilers fans are really slurping up those 30 games of Ty Emberson analytics.
I'll admit it. I'm a hypocrite.You mean like we did?
Well, you can speak for yourself if you like. But while I was intrigued by Emberson, I'm not ready to say he's good enough to project being an every day defenseman for the worst team in the league next year, never mind being projected into top-4 minutes on a contender.You mean like we did?
SJ is +40000 to win the cup. Want me to drop 100.00 on em for you?You know what, I think the sharks are going to make a real surprise performance this year and be a whole lot better than people think.
Their D now has a whole lot more experience and quality. Walman and Ceci arent Hughes and makar, but they sure as hell are better than borroughs and Addison. Furthermore, Thrun now has a year of NHL experience under his belt. Most young players tend to improve on their freshman season, so I expect that he will be a much better player. The sharks also expressed support for him with the 2 year deal, and he clearly has high expectations of himself. I think he may be a big improvement over himself. Mukh is the big unknown, but he was an AHL all star, so he may step in and proove some real quality minutes. The D is nothing to write home about, but it's a whole lot improved over last years and not relying on Borroughs, Addison, Ohtiuk, and rookies in thrun and emberson is a big win.
The O is also well improved. Hertl and duclair are out, but the additions are significant. Hoffman, Labanc, Barabonov, etc were so bad. The sharks had Hertl (when he was healthy) and the lund line, and that's pretty much it. This year, they will have at leaset two full scoring lines With Celebrini, Smith, Toffoli, Granlund, Eklund, Zetterlund and a third line with good experience and defensive prowess with Wennberg. I wish they had one or two more good solid 40 pt vets, but its a much better offensive team than last year.
lastly, I think Quinn made a hug difference. He was a horrific hire, and has been a terrible coach most everywhere in the NHL that hes gone, as his teams have failed to make PO's ever (aside from weird 2020 year, and did not win a game that year). His career coahcing win loss is 137-235, and even at BU, he was only 105-90, not amazing for such a high level hockey school. The sharks' 3rd period goal differential was so amazingly terrible, and the culture of the team wreaked of indifference and defeat.
Warsofsky seems to understand how to build relationships with players and get them bought in. he's made to the championships in the ECHL and won the calder cup. hes been a winner most everywhere, so we'll see what he can do with this crew, but I think he'll get a whole lot more out of them comparied to Quinn, who has a proven track record of sucking. Obviously, the proof will be in the pudding...
Overall, the sharks are just a much improved team. They have much more talent at O, more talent and experience at D, and a likely much better coach. We also have a roster of far more competitive and hungry players with pride. Smtih, celly, mukh... these guys are driven. Toffoli is a great driven vet who is excited to be here. We arent some hodgepodge of defeated old guys (hoffman, lebanc, etc), dissatisfied vets, and #7 journeyman defensemen. We have a real roster (well sorta), and I think it's gunna be WAY better than before. The whole climate around the sharks feels completely different...
I think we are in for a surprise...