Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Cody Ceci and 2025 3rd for Ty Emberson

[mogambomoroo]

I'm on the train of ''Let's see what we have in Ceci'' and then think about the trade deadline.
I'm okay with extending him if he has a positive value this year. Stay until someone surpasses him, he will probably be relatively cheap as 2RD. Next offseason is all about drafting 1RD and getting more defensive help from free agency.
We have okay 2nd pair in NHL terms with Walman - Ceci that will probably play 1st pair role with this roster. Grier is clearly taking it slowly by not rushing things until he finds a perfect match. I could see a late deal for veteran like Schultz or Barrie if he wants to add more veterans this year to that RD position.

 

[coooldude]

Getting a draft pick that is going to be somewhere around 85th overall doesn't move the needle enough to give up the chance that Emberson is a long-term solution as a 5/6 on the right side. Nor does taking on a 1 year player that we should not extend under any circumstance based on his career to date and trajectory over the last few years.

I think the idea of just "gaining an asset for a waiver claim" is way too simplistic because it ignores the potential value left on the table. Same concept applied when trading Middleton. We thought that we "sold high" at the time and he's turned out to be a legitimate top 4 defenseman in the NHL and we sold for pennies on the dollar. But hey, we got an asset for a player we got off the scrap heap.

So in this case, I'd have rather rolled the dice to see what Emberson is this year than take the guarantee of a pick in the mid-late 80's and maybe another 3rd/4th rounder in exchange for Ceci at the deadline because I don't put much value into mid round picks when the Sharks are where they are right now. Organization has ample depth of guys drafted in that range after having 27 draft picks in 3 years.

It's all sound logic. Either GMMG doesn't believe he's got the upside, or he made a mistake, or maybe he knew something we didn't know, which is for example a) health issues b) given the near arbitration situation maybe there's a risk of not hitting the 50 game requirement and he becomes UFA and wasn't going to sign here, so maybe a bird in the hand before the season starts rather than trying to move him at the TDL when maybe he hasn't quite had the good year.

I think it's reasonable to have wanted to roll the dice to see what we had in Emberson, that was my gut reaction to the trade. I also think it's reasonable to be happy for the Ceci exchange and getting a 3rd even if it's not likely to amount to much. Ultimately the move isn't going to move the needle a ton, but maybe it helps to have a bit more veteran presence in the locker room and on the ice. I could see it being a net negative or a net positive depending on how the season goes but I don't think anyone can reasonably criticize the deal as "terrible," as there's rationale behind it.

 

[weastern bias]

The more I think about it we should probably just extend Ceci on a 3 or 4 year contract if he's willing to stay.

None of the RD in our system are likely to surpass him in the next 4-5 years even assuming some age-related decline by Ceci.

If we can extend Ceci for under 4M AAV he'll be a good stopgap until we acquire better RD to push him down the depth chart.

I think he'll likely get that kind of offer from a competitive team, so unless he just loves it here for some reason I doubt he's staying beyond the deadline without a big overpayment

It makes sense for both him and the team for him to work hard, play him best and then move on as a rental at the deadline and then get one final payday from a team trying to win now as he enters his 30s

 

[weastern bias]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826044867375763844

It was officially a good trade

 

[STL Shark]

The more I think about it we should probably just extend Ceci on a 3 or 4 year contract if he's willing to stay.

None of the RD in our system are likely to surpass him in the next 4-5 years even assuming some age-related decline by Ceci.

If we can extend Ceci for under 4M AAV he'll be a good stopgap until we acquire better RD to push him down the depth chart.

Save that money and spot for a better player rather than committing to Ceci now. For example, give that exact same contract to Will Borgen this summer rather than Ceci.

Can also invest draft capital into a trade or any number of options that is not spending cap space on the 32-36 year old years of an already mediocre bottom pairing D-Man.

 

[Hodge]

Save that money and spot for a better player rather than committing to Ceci now. For example, give that exact same contract to Will Borgen this summer rather than Ceci.

Can also invest draft capital into a trade or any number of options that is not spending cap space on the 32-36 year old years of an already mediocre bottom pairing D-Man.

Why not both? It's not like we have any shortage of cap space, or any shortage of need for right shot defensemen for that matter.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Cody Ceci is bad and I have zero interest in keeping him past this contract.

 

[tiburon12]

Getting a draft pick that is going to be somewhere around 85th overall doesn't move the needle enough to give up the chance that Emberson is a long-term solution as a 5/6 on the right side.

I see it this way. It doesn't move the needle enough for you, maybe. But this organization didn't view Emberson that way and that's integral to analyzing this trade. In that context a 3rd + a better player is an infinitely better asset set than a player you don't view long-term. Look at the way Grier talks about re-signing Kunin vs Emberson. One they clearly thought long-term about, the other not so much. And remember, he took the team to arbitration too. A player like Emberson is replaceable and can be found on waivers, again.

Nor does taking on a 1 year player that we should not extend under any circumstance based on his career to date and trajectory over the last few years.

we aren't discussing extending Ceci at this juncture, even though I strongly agree.

I think the idea of just "gaining an asset for a waiver claim" is way too simplistic because it ignores the potential value left on the table. Same concept applied when trading Middleton. We thought that we "sold high" at the time and he's turned out to be a legitimate top 4 defenseman in the NHL and we sold for pennies on the dollar. But hey, we got an asset for a player we got off the scrap heap.

We can boil it down to that simplistic math because we've already established that there was little->no potential future value for Emberson in teal. I agree that the Middleton trade was not good and I didn't like it at the time but it's not that comparable because the org* was taking a chance on a goalie, not trying to upgrade his D. Not apples to apple. Plus Middleton showed more than Emberson. Still a good lesson, though.

So in this case, I'd have rather rolled the dice to see what Emberson is this year than take the guarantee of a pick in the mid-late 80's and maybe another 3rd/4th rounder in exchange for Ceci at the deadline because I don't put much value into mid round picks when the Sharks are where they are right now. Organization has ample depth of guys drafted in that range after having 27 draft picks in 3 years.

I get the POV, i do. But i think all of what you're saying is a hope rather than looking at it objectively. And i do get that because it's such a nothing burger of a trade that having the guy you like with the low odds of a high ceiling is enticing, but from the framework to the details this is a good trade.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's all sound logic. Either GMMG doesn't believe he's got the upside, or he made a mistake, or maybe he knew something we didn't know, which is for example a) health issues b) given the near arbitration situation maybe there's a risk of not hitting the 50 game requirement and he becomes UFA and wasn't going to sign here, so maybe a bird in the hand before the season starts rather than trying to move him at the TDL when maybe he hasn't quite had the good year.

I think it's reasonable to have wanted to roll the dice to see what we had in Emberson, that was my gut reaction to the trade. I also think it's reasonable to be happy for the Ceci exchange and getting a 3rd even if it's not likely to amount to much. Ultimately the move isn't going to move the needle a ton, but maybe it helps to have a bit more veteran presence in the locker room and on the ice. I could see it being a net negative or a net positive depending on how the season goes but I don't think anyone can reasonably criticize the deal as "terrible," as there's rationale behind it.

I think there's a tendency among fanbases to overthink trades like this. It's a minor deal exchanging two players with low value around the league that are pretty easily replaceable. Even if the deal works out in the worst possible way for the Sharks (Emberson stays healthy and goes on to have a solid career, Ceci stinks or gets hurt), it's not going to damage the team much.

Most trades in professional sports should not be thought of as someone fleecing the other team. Those kinds of trades are rare and usually because one of the GM's vastly overrated the return they were getting. Most trades happen because two teams have compatible sets of problems they need to solve. One needs to shed contracts, the other has room to take them on. One team has a lack of talent in one part of their team and finds another team that has more guys than they need in that part of their team. One team is rebuilding and wants to shed veterans for prospects, while another team has a chance to go far in the playoffs and wants veterans. Too many fans IMO (and this is the curse of fantasy sports) look at trades as if you didn't clearly win the trade, you didn't do your job.

This trade is most likely a trade to solve a short-term problem of getting a little more dependable experience on this year's team and unless Ceci has some extra motivation to stay here, he's probably getting shipped out by the trade deadline this year because players want to play on good teams. Bottom dwellers should operate on the assumption that guys in the last year of their deals are probably going to look for a better team to sign with and try to get some value for them at the deadline if there's value to be had.

 

[Hodge]

What exactly is negative about Ceci's "career trajectory"? The fact that he's gotten better every season since leaving Ottawa and spent the past three years averaging 20 minutes a night for a team that won 6 playoff series during that time?

 

[TheBeard]

Why not both? It's not like we have any shortage of cap space, or any shortage of need for right shot defensemen for that matter.

We may need the money in 3 years.

 

[Alaskanice]

I think there's a tendency among fanbases to overthink trades like this. It's a minor deal exchanging two players with low value around the league that are pretty easily replaceable. Even if the deal works out in the worst possible way for the Sharks (Emberson stays healthy and goes on to have a solid career, Ceci stinks or gets hurt), it's not going to damage the team much.

Most trades in professional sports should not be thought of as someone fleecing the other team. Those kinds of trades are rare and usually because one of the GM's vastly overrated the return they were getting. Most trades happen because two teams have compatible sets of problems they need to solve. One needs to shed contracts, the other has room to take them on. One team has a lack of talent in one part of their team and finds another team that has more guys than they need in that part of their team. One team is rebuilding and wants to shed veterans for prospects, while another team has a chance to go far in the playoffs and wants veterans. Too many fans IMO (and this is the curse of fantasy sports) look at trades as if you didn't clearly win the trade, you didn't do your job.

This trade is most likely a trade to solve a short-term problem of getting a little more dependable experience on this year's team and unless Ceci has some extra motivation to stay here, he's probably getting shipped out by the trade deadline this year because players want to play on good teams. Bottom dwellers should operate on the assumption that guys in the last year of their deals are probably going to look for a better team to sign with and try to get some value for them at the deadline if there's value to be had.

Too much logic. I approve.

 

[Hodge]

We may need the money in 3 years.

Our only contract on the books for that season is Toffoli. Paying Ceci and Borgen 4M each isn't going to prevent us from signing Celebrini and Smith.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Everyone penciling Emberson into a long term 5/6 spot is ignoring that he was more likely than not to be a UFA after this season. I think the chances of him playing 50 games is very unlikely especially with Ceci in the roster. Also Edmonton did this deal specifically because they needed a cheap option on the right side. I’m guessing he might have been the only available RHD who was under $1 million.

Emberson is a replacement level player that we should not be concerned about losing. Everyone was excited about him because replacement level players looked like all-stars on last years team. I predict he won’t get 50 games with Edmonton and will be a UFA at seasons end.

 

[Sendhelplease]

We can boil it down to that simplistic math because we've already established that there was little->no potential future value for Emberson in teal. I agree that the Middleton trade was not good and I didn't like it at the time but it's not that comparable because Grier was taking a chance on a goalie, not trying to upgrade his D. Not apples to apple. Plus Middleton showed more than Emberson. Still a good lesson, though.

Grier did not make the Middleton Kahkonen trade, that was a Doug Wilson trade.

 

[CHIshark]

The question I have is why would Stan Bowman trade one of his top 4 defensemen on the last year of his contract making only $3.25M and he's a RHD? If Ceci is good that's a steal for the Sharks. Why doesn't Bowman just flip him for picks? Does he really think Emberson is that good? Is it really just a $3.25M cap dump? Both GMs surely reviewed plenty of game film and Grier clearly sees things alot different than Bowman. I think our highest paid defenseman not named Vlasic is Jake Walman at $3.4M.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The question I have is why would Stan Bowman trade one of his top 4 defensemen on the last year of his contract making only $3.25M and he's a RHD? If Ceci is good that's a steal for the Sharks. Why doesn't Bowman just flip him for picks? Does he really think Emberson is that good? Is it really just a $3.25M cap dump? Both GMs surely reviewed plenty of game film and Grier clearly sees things alot different than Bowman. I think our highest paid defenseman not named Vlasic is Jake Walman at $3.4M.

Remember: Jake Walman is not an NHL caliber defenseman because Detroit paid to dump his contract. But Cody Ceci is very good and a top-4 defenseman even though Edmonton paid to dump his contract.

 

[tiburon12]

The question I have is why would Stan Bowman trade one of his top 4 defensemen on the last year of his contract making only $3.25M and he's a RHD? If Ceci is good that's a steal for the Sharks. Why doesn't Bowman just flip him for picks? Does he really think Emberson is that good? Is it really just a $3.25M cap dump? Both GMs surely reviewed plenty of game film and Grier clearly sees things alot different than Bowman. I think our highest paid defenseman not named Vlasic is Jake Walman at $3.4M.

I believe the idea is that Emberson fills a bottom pairing role for bottom pairing money OR is replaceable, whereas Ceci filled a bottom pairing role for middle pairing money. Now EDM can upgrade their middle pair with the savings from Ceci. I think it's a huge risk frankly. But, Emberson played for Knoblauch and succeeded at the AHL level, so he was a known quantity to the coach.

On the Sharks side, our D corp is so much worse that Ceci might play top4 minutes and middle pairing money, which is an upgrade on what we had last year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Remember: Jake Walman is not an NHL caliber defenseman because Detroit paid to dump his contract. But Cody Ceci is very good and a top-4 defenseman even though Edmonton paid to dump his contract.

I’m not intending to single out Jux as many people do it, but this post is a prime example of people trolling Hodge. For all the people who complain about Hodge he is only part of the problem.

 

[TheBeard]

I’m not intending to single out Jux as many people do it, but this post is a prime example of people trolling Hodge. For all the people who complain about Hodge he is only part of the problem.

Not that simple. Detroit has like 18 million in cap space. They were nowhere near in a cap crunch position. Edmonton is.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Not that simple. Detroit has like 18 million in cap space. They were nowhere near in a cap crunch position. Edmonton is.

True. Although Raymond and Seider will cost around $15 million between them.

 

[Lebanezer]

I’m not intending to single out Jux as many people do it, but this post is a prime example of people trolling Hodge. For all the people who complain about Hodge he is only part of the problem.

Pointing out the inconsistency in someone's reasoning is not trolling, even if it comes with a bit of snark.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’m not intending to single out Jux as many people do it, but this post is a prime example of people trolling Hodge. For all the people who complain about Hodge he is only part of the problem.

I asked him specifically, before the Ceci trade, if he would carry over the logic he used to say that Walman was bad when Edmonton was forced to attach a pick to Ceci and he hedged. My point is that his unerring logic can't be used against him or it's "trolling".

 

[Munnyro]

I wonder if playing in a small market will have a positive effect. CC has played in some massive markets.

 

[Hodge]

I asked him specifically, before the Ceci trade, if he would carry over the logic he used to say that Walman was bad when Edmonton was forced to attach a pick to Ceci and he hedged. My point is that his unerring logic can't be used against him or it's "trolling".

Except Ceci was not a cap dump. He was traded with a 3rd round pick for Ty Emberson.