Player Discussion Shane Pinto (C) - PART 2

[aragorn]

On this team Pinto is definitely a 2nd line C who can challenge or replace a top line C if needed as it was this past season when Norris went down with injury.

 

[PlayOn]

Garrioch thinks this negotiation is gonna last until September and the teams aren’t close. Also mentioned that Pinto’s agent is hoping for an offer sheet but Bruce doesn’t think he’ll get one. Says they would match it and also doesn’t think Pinto will get traded, Boston and other teams were told no when they asked for him.

 

[GCK]

Garrioch thinks this negotiation is gonna last until September and the teams aren’t close. Also mentioned that Pinto’s agent is hoping for an offer sheet but Bruce doesn’t think he’ll get one. Says they would match it and also doesn’t think Pinto will get traded, Boston and other teams were told no when they asked for him.

I’m pretty sure they need to make their moves before going long term or bridge.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Already set a bad precedent, now everyone wants to get that 8 mill contract off their 50 point career highs.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Already set a bad precedent, now everyone wants to get that 8 mill contract off their 50 point career highs.

8 mil?

 

[JungleBeat]

Good. He can sit out if we wants, finally a GM who'll play hardball.

 

[h2]

Pinto needs to stop missing games. Get a deal done.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Already set a bad precedent, now everyone wants to get that 8 mill contract off their 50 point career highs.

They can hope for it but not really relevant with a new regime in town that weren't the ones handing them out.

I kind of like to see the team play some hardball again.

 

[SENStastic]

Saw the LoS pod earlier, Bruce was on and made it sound like this could easily go into the season and not to expect an agreement anytime soon. Missing Norris makes that scenario so much worse for the team.

 

[Dionysus]

Saw the LoS pod earlier, Bruce was on and made it sound like this could easily go into the season and not to expect an agreement anytime soon. Missing Norris makes that scenario so much worse for the team.

Pinto needs to get some games in and earn a contract. Hasn't had the consistent games played to earn a big ticket yet.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

One thing you have to consider is that this is the first big internal contract Staios will have to sign. It's one thing to go out and overpay to attract mercenaries like Tanev or Ullmark, but for better or worse the Pinto contract will be the first contract to set an ongoing salary structure with players who are already part of the team, and expectations over how Staios operates.

While I think Dorion's "you get 8M, you get 8M, you get 8M" was more positive than negative when the consider the value of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson (so far), it's an example of a salary structure shaping expectations for what the floor is with players who are at a certain level.

I also wonder because of the above, how much of it is for show. As in, maybe he likes Pinto at 5M, but he wants to make him have to sacrifice and grind to get it because he doesn't want the perception to be that he will roll over and give a player with 1.5 actual full seasons under his belt relatively big money.

Lastly, they shouldn't sign Pinto right away anyways, because there are so many moving parts whose rights they do not yet hold, and they own Pinto's rights. If they sign him to a 5x5 type deal now, they can't come back a week from now and say "Tanev wants to sign but it's gonna cost us a few hundred k extra, can we switch to a bridge deal?" The contract is signed. Meaning that if the same contract is going to be on the table a month from now, it makes sense to wait and see how the cap structure of the team shakes out, because there is a real possibility that they simply won't have the space to go long-term regardless of whether they want to. At least that way, they get some social capital within the team. It's not they would have rolled over because they couldn't, it's they grinded Pinto down to a bridge deal because they are tough negotiators.

 

[HSF]

no need to overpay for Pinto. Probably a 2C i also wouldnt give him long term unless the cap is a steal.

bridge him at a lower cap if needed

 

[DrEasy]

One thing you have to consider is that this is the first big internal contract Staios will have to sign. It's one thing to go out and overpay to attract mercenaries like Tanev or Ullmark, but for better or worse the Pinto contract will be the first contract to set an ongoing salary structure with players who are already part of the team, and expectations over how Staios operates.

While I think Dorion's "you get 8M, you get 8M, you get 8M" was more positive than negative when the consider the value of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson (so far), it's an example of a salary structure shaping expectations for what the floor is with players who are at a certain level.

I also wonder because of the above, how much of it is for show. As in, maybe he likes Pinto at 5M, but he wants to make him have to sacrifice and grind to get it because he doesn't want the perception to be that he will roll over and give a player with 1.5 actual full seasons under his belt relatively big money.

Lastly, they shouldn't sign Pinto right away anyways, because there are so many moving parts whose rights they do not yet hold, and they own Pinto's rights. If they sign him to a 5x5 type deal now, they can't come back a week from now and say "Tanev wants to sign but it's gonna cost us a few hundred k extra, can we switch to a bridge deal?" The contract is signed. Meaning that if the same contract is going to be on the table a month from now, it makes sense to wait and see how the cap structure of the team shakes out, because there is a real possibility that they simply won't have the space to go long-term regardless of whether they want to. At least that way, they get some social capital within the team. It's not they would have rolled over because they couldn't, it's they grinded Pinto down to a bridge deal because they are tough negotiators.

Yeah, they need more clarity about the room they'll have under the cap, and the clarity will come after Chychrun and Joseph are dealt with, and hopefully the top 4 RD is signed, not to mention the forwards we need to replace Tarasenko and Kubalik with. Then they can see if they have room for a long term contract with Pinto or just a bridge deal.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

no need to overpay for Pinto. Probably a 2C i also wouldnt give him long term unless the cap is a steal.

bridge him at a lower cap if needed

I would only bridge him if it is the difference between adding or not adding a player at a position of need, because I believe we are in 'win now' mode due to the up coming Bradypocalypse if we miss the playoffs.

I don't think a bridge deal will save much long term, because the rising cap is going to push contracts forward. Before you know it, 6M-7M is going to be top end 3C money. For example, when Pageau got 5M from the Islanders, that was 6.14 percent of the cap. By the time a 2-3 year bridge deal is up, we're likely approaching or at a 100M cap ceiling with the way things are going.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Has the market been set for middle six centers yet this offseason? Have any signed yet?

 

[Cosmix]

One thing you have to consider is that this is the first big internal contract Staios will have to sign. It's one thing to go out and overpay to attract mercenaries like Tanev or Ullmark, but for better or worse the Pinto contract will be the first contract to set an ongoing salary structure with players who are already part of the team, and expectations over how Staios operates.

While I think Dorion's "you get 8M, you get 8M, you get 8M" was more positive than negative when the consider the value of Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson (so far), it's an example of a salary structure shaping expectations for what the floor is with players who are at a certain level.

I also wonder because of the above, how much of it is for show. As in, maybe he likes Pinto at 5M, but he wants to make him have to sacrifice and grind to get it because he doesn't want the perception to be that he will roll over and give a player with 1.5 actual full seasons under his belt relatively big money.

Lastly, they shouldn't sign Pinto right away anyways, because there are so many moving parts whose rights they do not yet hold, and they own Pinto's rights. If they sign him to a 5x5 type deal now, they can't come back a week from now and say "Tanev wants to sign but it's gonna cost us a few hundred k extra, can we switch to a bridge deal?" The contract is signed. Meaning that if the same contract is going to be on the table a month from now, it makes sense to wait and see how the cap structure of the team shakes out, because there is a real possibility that they simply won't have the space to go long-term regardless of whether they want to. At least that way, they get some social capital within the team. It's not they would have rolled over because they couldn't, it's they grinded Pinto down to a bridge deal because they are tough negotiators.

Agreed. There are potentially quite a few options for signing new players (e.g., top 4 RD, 4th line C, etc.) so delaying the signing of Pinto would provide some flexibility going through the summer. Signing RFA players to longer term contracts at higher than necessary AAVs might be a cost-saving strategy if the player's performance meets or exceeds expectations in the longer run; however, it could also result in costs that exceed his value. Not all RFA contracts need to be longer term; some must be shorter term and lower value.

 

[GCK]

Has the market been set for middle six centers yet this offseason? Have any signed yet?

Middlestat 3 x 5.75. Pinto would be a fair bit lower on a 2 year

 

[bicboi64]

Middlestat 3 x 5.75. Pinto would be a fair bit lower on a 2 year

Pinto better sign for below $4 million on a 3 year deal. Mittelstadt was the only not shit forward in Buffalo's top 6 last year and was excelling on each end of the ice for a few seasons before signing his current deal.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Bruce (washed) now saying Staios may be looking for 5 or 6 years.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bruce (washed) now saying Staios may be looking for 5 or 6 years.

Said discussing 2 year deal or 5 or 6.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Honestly Pinto holding out only to sign a bridge could be really bad for a relationship that has every reason to be rocky at this point.

Whatever deal that gets done do it long term. Pinto signed for league min to own up for the gambling suspension. Has been healthy for 2 straight years now, and has looked better YoY. Battling consistency issues like any young player would be.

5x5 is such an easy contract.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807526761841775058

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807526761841775058

Uhh..

 

[Ouroboros]

The Sens are definitely vulnerable to an offer sheet. They have ~11M in cap space with Pinto and 4 other forwards to sign, and that's not even taking into account their need on RD.

 

[BondraTime]

That’s not good if true.

Here’s hoping someone isn’t willing to go to a 6.6 route