Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[mikeyz]

I know. I am saying most people complaining weren't fans then. They don't know what it's like to lose in the regular season instead of being a top 5 team and taking a Dynasty to the edge. The team is close.

I have been a fan of this team for nearly 4 decades and I have been one of their harshest critics.

I'm not saying anything about their quality as fans; I'm honestly trying to understand why you follow a team if your experience with the team is so consistently negative?

Maybe because they’ve given us nothing to be positive about. Especially in the playoffs.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I have been a fan of this team for nearly 4 decades and I have been one of their harshest critics.

And you would prefer to go back to watching us collapse at the end of the season going from a playoff spot to a top 10 pick vs losing a series by 1 goal vs a Dynasty after smashing countless franchise records?

 

[Lightsol]

Maybe because they’ve given us nothing to be positive about. Especially in the playoffs.

Then why do you continue to follow them just to shit on them? Does saying "I WUZ RIGHT!" make you feel better or something?

And you would prefer to go back to watching us collapse at the end of the season going from a playoff spot to a top 10 pick vs losing a series by 1 goal vs a Dynasty after smashing countless franchise records?

Yes, a lot of them would. There was more excitement over the idea of GETTING Matthews then there has been since he got here. They want another "Leafs get first overall!" season... And they don't realize that it took the Leafs 20 years after the first draft to get one, and another 30 years to get a second. We're not sniffing another Matthews pick until 2050, assuming we're all still here at that time.

 

[ACC1224]

You really think the majority of posters here see this team as very good when they only show up to complain about EVERYTHING? Half the posters here post the same shit over and over again, only turning up after losses to berate everybody. They're like my old man; constantly angry to the point where you wonder why they even keep watching, because they're killing themselves with stress.

You get extremes at both ends. Most are just frustrated with the lack of success.
I do think most see it as a very good team that is missing something to put them over the top.
It's the Coach for me.

That's fair, and I'm not really talking about fans having different opinions. I am talking about the folks saying they are all losers and blow it up, fire everyone, etc. They don't realize just how good we have it right now compared to the 50 years before that. Outside of brief stints of having a shot, the Leafs were losers for 50 years who never sniffed being as good as this team is.

My take is that Dubas tried to go with the Ducks / Sharks model, contend for a decade + sign a core + rotate in ELC players and keep depth flowing. Problem is that was doomed from his first year with having to move 13th OA which was Jarvis, who we could really use right now to get out of Marleau. Then we had Amirov get brain cancer, lost another first for Foligno, etc etc.

The time isn't there for the pipeline to restock to sustain that model. IMO, we have not yet truly gone all in. We've added some nice pieces, but the most we went all in was a first for Foligno, a 3rd for a depth goalie, and a late pick for a depth D.

I think, similar to the Blue Jackets, we need to commit and say F it. Move our firsts the next 2 seasons, move Robertson, Niemela, nearly whoever we need to to bring in elite talent. We have 2 years left of our entire rebuild never even giving us a playoff series win before they walk.

Add a starting goalie you think is elite, add a pending UFA who is elite just to play down our lineup and give scoring depth. Get the top UFA at the deadline for whatever position we identify as a need.

We can move Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and whoever to kickstart a rebuild and be back to a playoff team within 3-4 years if we fail again. But until then, this is the best chance we've had in decades. Don't make us wonder what if. Go all in and tell the core this is it. If we fail we're rebuilding.

I'm with you the time to go all in is now but to make changes cap has to go out to bring cap in. They can't just move picks and prospects.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Stephen]

And you would prefer to go back to watching us collapse at the end of the season going from a playoff spot to a top 10 pick vs losing a series by 1 goal vs a Dynasty after smashing countless franchise records?

The choice between 2012 and 2022 is a false dilemma. Critical voices from the fanbase always want to see the team do better.

 

[Apex Predator]

I'm not saying anything about their quality as fans; I'm honestly trying to understand why you follow a team if your experience with the team is so consistently negative?

I’ve been a fan since I was a kid. Do I get frustrated when this team struggles yeah for sure. I believe you can’t switch teams because they are struggling and jump to a team that’s having success. You are allowed to be upset and criticize the team.

I’m a fan of the Miami Dolphins as well. So I’ve seen many failures from those teams.

 

[mikeyz]

And you would prefer to go back to watching us collapse at the end of the season going from a playoff spot to a top 10 pick vs losing a series by 1 goal vs a Dynasty after smashing countless franchise records?

Well time is running out before we're at that point again.

 

[Racer88]

On the other hand, some of you never tasted being a bottom feeder who couldn't sniff the playoffs. This is not a team you blow up. It's a team you go all in on.

I have 4 decades of total leafs support. I have seen it all

 

[mikeyz]

Then why do you continue to follow them just to shit on them? Does saying "I WUZ RIGHT!" make you feel better or something?

So I should happy with 6 and counting consecutive 1st round playoff losses?

 

[ShaneFalco]

On the other hand, some of you never tasted being a bottom feeder who couldn't sniff the playoffs. This is not a team you blow up. It's a team you go all in on.

Not with this gm and coach

 

[Lightsol]

So I should happy with 6 and counting consecutive 1st round playoff losses?

How about disappointed? But if hockey is making you this irrationally angry, you should step away. It's not THAT big in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ShaneFalco]

How about disappointed? But if hockey is making you this irrationally angry, you should step away. It's not THAT big in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe not but also infuriating to see this gm and coach piss these years away because they are learning.

 

[Leaf Fans]

View attachment 558467

Well, yeah we did. I suppose it is a positive, but it is not good enough in my opinion.

Not with this gm and coach

With any GM and coach. The current TM an coach have put together a good team. It has failed so far but they are good. I think they need a goaltender.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’ve been a fan since I was a kid. Do I get frustrated when this team struggles yeah for sure. I believe you can’t switch teams because they are struggling and jump to a team that’s having success. You are allowed to be upset and criticize the team.

I’m a fan of the Miami Dolphins as well. So I’ve seen many failures from those teams.

My dad was a dolphins fan going back to the Shula csonka 16-0 teams, I ended up a bills fan. Definitely relate with seeing hapless failure after another, which I guess is part why I’m willing to let this group hang itself. This is the best collection of players and strongest organization this team has had in my lifetime, not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water cause they ran into a monster this year, had it been another lifeless rolling over then I’d be sharping my pitchfork, but I believe in the talent and realize the margins between winning and losing especially at that top top tier is so minute

 

[Morbo]

I have 4 decades of total leafs support. I have seen it all

well no, you hadn't seen either a 115 point team or a 60 goal scorer before. that's kinda the point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I have to guess what your opinion is since you always cloak it.

My opinion is never "cloaked". There is no need to incorrectly guess what my opinion is. If you're unsure, then you're welcome to ask or move on, but spreading lies about me is not acceptable.

The entire premise was that experience helps.

That is a different premise. Relevant experience can assist one in their job, but playing in the NHL is very obviously not a requirement to "know what it takes to win".

If you want to pretend me voting in a poll encompasses the entirety of my opinion

Of course not. Playoff predictions very obviously do not encompass the entirety of one's opinion. That's what I've been saying to you all along.
You are wrong here because the things you are saying here are wrong, not because you were wrong with your playoff predictions.

PP production is tied to the functionality of the unit a lot more than even strength scoring. That's why ES scoring is a lot better measure of the player's ability to actually create offense.

Despite what you may think, a player's proficiency on the PP is something that factors into contracts. You can't just completely ignore it (and a lot of other relevant information) to try and justify an incorrect position.

But, since we're talkingPP, what PP unit was Pastrnak on?

Since you brought this up, Pastrnak is actually the only one of the two that played on a top PP unit prior to signing.

Was his PP time skewed more to the start of the season or the end, or was it about even throughout?

Not sure the relevance, but pretty even throughout.

Context only matters when it helps Dubas I guess...

Of course not. Context always matters. That's the entire point of the post you quoted.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I’ve been a fan since I was a kid. Do I get frustrated when this team struggles yeah for sure. I believe you can’t switch teams because they are struggling and jump to a team that’s having success. You are allowed to be upset and criticize the team.

I’m a fan of the Miami Dolphins as well. So I’ve seen many failures from those teams.

I'm a long time fan of the LA Rams...and it seems like Dubas' idea of team building is a bad photocopy of what the Rams have done. The main difference between the 2 teams is that LA decided Jared Goff was not going to be the answer long term and would never win them a title. They cut bait and traded for Stafford who played lights out in the playoffs and won. They didn't get married to their core because they drafted them. If anything...they cut bait on a QB that was 1st overall and hadn't even begun his new contract extension.

I know the salary cap in the NFL is basically non existent...the Rams are proving that now with all these extensions they gave out...but at the same time the biggest difference is that the Rams realize a mistake fairly early and aren't embarrassed to fix it. Contrast that with Shanny and Dubas and you end up trying the same thing over and over getting the same results. It comes down to Hubris...we are too smart for our own good with MLSE and it shows.

 

[LilySmoov]

It’s Keefes job to get them to perform. He didn’t do his job.

Keefe didn’t get the players to perform

What does this even mean and how would you demonstrate it? And what happens if both teams' coaches get their players to perform? Is it like when matter and antimatter collide? Do all the players' performances cancel each other out and then they get annihilated and disappear and a bunch of new players are produced as a result?

 

[Gabriel426]

What does this even mean and how would you demonstrate it? And what happens if both teams' coaches get their players to perform? Is it like when matter and antimatter collide? Do all the players' performances cancel each other out and then they get annihilated and disappear and a bunch of new players are produced as a result?

It is the coaches job to plan and train the players to executive. Did the Leafs executive their plans from the get go? Did the players played up to their standards?
Unless you think it is all on the players than what’s the point of even having a coach behind the bench?

 

[Racer88]

well no, you hadn't seen either a 115 point team or a 60 goal scorer before. that's kinda the point.

Yes I have seen that……this year is also included in my 4 decades

 

[Confucius]

Vasilevskiy had one of his worst playoff series of his career vs the Leafs (0.897 SV% and several stinkers) and we still couldn't beat the Lightning. I just have a hard time trying to put lipstick on this team. They're losers. People should have been fired long ago. But here we are.... still the same, baby, baby, still the same.

Yep worst series because of our stars, give credit where it is do.

 

[Confucius]

But 8 teams make it past the the first round.

How many played Tampa who are on the verge of a 3 peat? If Tampa wins a cup in 6 games Leafs we’re the 2nd best team in this years playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

Who cares? Are we after cups, or second round banners? Nobody cares about squeezing by their first round opponent and then getting worked. Would you feel any different if this team had taken Florida’s path? They got smoked by Tampa, wasn’t even close.
The leafs have pushed this generations greatest team as far as it’s been pushed in three post seasons. No one’s celebrating that or happy about it, but context is important when evaluating reasons why you came up short on the ultimate goal.

The goal is to build a program if sustained excellence with winning being plenty

Series wins, conference wins and the years the team does win a cup(s) being the end of the process

We rebuilt to build a sustained contender

The team hasn't been able to develop any further in the playoffs since 2019

We lost to the Bruins being up and having chances to take a strangle hold/close them out. Had a terrible PP and horrible PK

Same thing occurred this year.

As the cores gotten older and become better players their combined cap hits have ked to us losing strong supporting depth pieces like Kadri, brown, AJ, Kap, Hyman etc

We've had to turn to the kerfoots, kampfs, kases, mikheyevs, and Engvall

These guys are playing a grade above their optimal roles for us as we don't have secondary scoring threats who can generate their own looks/finish looks from the star players

We don't have a Killorn, palat, Gourde, Coleman etc

We don't have a nikushkin, burakovsky, Toews, Girard ( the last two being Hugh octane offensive contributors from the blue line)

The big 3 have improved as players since 2019, but JT has fallen from that level and the depth surrounding these 4 isn't strong enough nor consistent enough to overcome when they get shut down.

 

[hamzarocks]

And you would prefer to go back to watching us collapse at the end of the season going from a playoff spot to a top 10 pick vs losing a series by 1 goal vs a Dynasty after smashing countless franchise records?

Leafs are a pretty medicore franchise so our records aren't that impressive

115 pts while amazing didn't win us the division, conference nor president trophy if your into that type of success

Most of the records were with AM34 who had a incredible year

We didn't rebuild though to have regular season successes and sustained playoff failure. It was supposed to be be a good/strong regular season team and then win multiple cups come playoffs.

Taking Tampa to 7 means nothing when we already took Boston to 7 in 2019 in a series we outplayed them similarly to this year vs the Bolts

The leafs have repeatedly shown they choke and don't finish their opportunities in the final 2 or 3 games of a series where they can close out a team.

We defend worse, make bad decisions and reads, miss our chances, and are generally good for gaffes which cost us directly (galchenyuk, sandins 2/dermott, kerfoot drop pass/penalties, bad defensive coverage on both Paul's goals in game 7).

They don't have the mix if depth players who can step up and be a hero like a Talbot, Paul etc.

The big time players haven't shown up all as a unit in 4 do or die games.

Very hard to believe anything else to be the case in game 7 next year.

We need a depth piece/support player who can score when the top guys are hounded and not capable of providing us with offense

How many played Tampa who are on the verge of a 3 peat? If Tampa wins a cup in 6 games Leafs we’re the 2nd best team in this years playoffs.

Not it does not work like that. Many teams didn't play Tampa so they didn't get a chance to go the full length

And going game 7 in round 1 is our hobby. We do it irregardless if we're playing a dynasty, an elite power house (Boston years) or two medicore squads ( CBJ, and MTL)

Leafs will play the same tampa/boston/flordia most likely next year in round 1. If the core+depth+coaching enters with the same mentality as they had in games 4 and 7 of Tampa well be losing our 7th straight 1st round series in the AM34 era