Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Gary Nylund]

if game 7 was marner "playing his ass off" that's not good.

He was virtually invisible in game 7.

If that's him playing his ass off.....well.

You are probably right - he likely was.

He was very noticeable, to me anyway.

 

[Nylanderthal]

You missed the biggest one,. IMO

Dubas signed too few players, to too much money $$, and as a result Leaf Nation fans now sees too few playoff games. Its really that simple !!!

Its the situation the Leafs team find themselves annually as a result of greenhorn GM overpaying his star players to build a core, that results in only regular season success, but prevents a Cup competitive team, because you can't build successful depth around the core 4 forwards that consume 1/2 your salary cap.

Its the one constant the core 4, that remains the same each and every playoff loss, and its the one constant the GM refuses to address.

So when those core 4 do not show up in a game's boxscore, its expected your $1.65 mil 1A tandem goalie or your 3rd and 4th line players all making $1.5 mil or less playing for league minimum to bail the team out. So what is Dubas solution get a different goalie and move out some depth players and go bargain bin shopping for new ones and rinse and repeat, because you can't afford to keep your Hyman and Kadri type players for solid depth due strictly to Salary Cap mismanagement. So you tinker around the edges as busy work pretending it addresses the teams TRUE problem.

But why would Dubas change and address this, when its been shown year, after year, after year, that simply making the playoffs equals job security, for the President, the GM and the coach, and the playoff results don't matter?

Remind me how many points Tampa’s big guys produced in game 7? Tampas cap commitment to the top of their line up is similar to Toronto’s. Their guys at the bottom gave them the push they needed to get over the hump.

 

[Dreakmur]

I dunno, I thought Marner played well. 2 assists in 4 games doesn't look great but what can I say, I thought he played well. Even game 7, from what I remember he was playing his ass off from start to finish, and just didn't get rewarded for it on the scoreboard.

A lot of flash with little substance offensively.

 

[Nylanderthal]

A lot of flash with little substance offensively.

I thought that killing penalties blocking shots and whatnot was considered he substance around here and point production was flash & sizzle.
I thought Mitch (and the rest of the big guys for that matter) played his balls off. Just didn’t get the breaks, doesn’t make it okay or acceptable or even determine if the same group comes back, but the loss wasn’t lack of effort and compete

 

[Dreakmur]

I thought that killing penalties blocking shots and whatnot was considered he substance around here and point production was flash & sizzle.
I thought Mitch (and the rest of the big guys for that matter) played his balls off. Just didn’t get the breaks, doesn’t make it okay or acceptable or even determine if the same group comes back, but the loss wasn’t lack of effort and compete

I thought that “offensively” didn’t include defensive stuff….

Sure, he worked hard, but his style off offence just doesn’t work well when the teams get used to each other and the games get tighter.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I thought that “offensively” didn’t include defensive stuff….

Sure, he worked hard, but his style off offence just doesn’t work well when the teams get used to each other and the games get tighter.

You got me, when I saw substance I assumed work rate and effort all around.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t think it’s about upsetting the coach as much as it‘s about upsetting his teammates. TheTB leadership knows everyone has to pull the rope as hard as they can in the same direction.

That reaction is a lot like Military reaction. When your superior gives you an order, you are train to follow- no question, no opinion, no but….
Or just a whole bunch of people with one goal in mind

 

[Gabriel426]

Good question. I've been saying that this year was different, they played so much better but ... maybe you're right and they didn't quite have that level of desperation that you need to have to win championships. It's so hard to say, so hard to measure so that's the best answer I can give - maybe you're right, I just can't say for sure. Maybe this same group comes out next year and plays with that little bit extra? Or maybe they just need better goaltending, f***ed if I know.

No doubt they played better than playoffs past. However, it really doesn’t take much for them to improve from the Habs and the BJs series. Just hope they improve even more by next playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

For me it’s Marner. He had a better playoff this year, but he got worse as the games got tougher. 2 assists in games 4 through 7 isn’t good enough. He played his worst when the games mattered most.

Nylander is frustratingly inconsistent, he doesn’t wilt under pressure like Marner. At least Nylander might show up in a big game, where it’s looking very likely Marner never will.

Marner was their best player for the series including game 7.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Remind me how many points Tampa’s big guys produced in game 7? Tampas cap commitment to the top of their line up is similar to Toronto’s. Their guys at the bottom gave them the push they needed to get over the hump.

Having Hedman leading your defence and Vas in net were huge as well. Hedman is a legitimate #1 dman. Is Rielly even truly a #2, or is he actually a #3. Two huge differences there.

 

[Captain Crunch]

No doubt they played better than playoffs past. However, it really doesn’t take much for them to improve from the Habs and the BJs series. Just hope they improve even more by next playoffs.

They better, with Matthews going into year 4 of his deal, and then his NTC and NMC kicking in on his final year. Which means if he plays out his contract, he can go wherever he chooses. Will Dubas be desperate and go all in this coming season, and possibly still not get past the 1st round? And if so, what shape will we be in 2 or 3 years down the road with our roster and prospects?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Good question. I've been saying that this year was different, they played so much better but ... maybe you're right and they didn't quite have that level of desperation that you need to have to win championships. It's so hard to say, so hard to measure so that's the best answer I can give - maybe you're right, I just can't say for sure. Maybe this same group comes out next year and plays with that little bit extra? Or maybe they just need better goaltending, f***ed if I know.

All I do know is now that I watch the absolute desperation and determination of the teams left in the final 4...I think we are miles away. I used to think if we could just get past this 1st round crap we would go on a run. I just can't see our guys diving in front of shots and willingly take big hits to make plays like I see from other teams playing right now. I just don't.

Edmonton might be a tire fire defensively but they never give up like we do. They were down to Calgary and Colorado but still kept going at them. It might have been score effects...but why don't have those score effects when we are getting blown out? We just give up and call it a day pretty much. Who is responsible for this type of reaction is beyond me...is it the coach? The players? I have no idea...and neither does MLSE.

 

[Dreakmur]

Having Hedman leading your defence and Vas in net were huge as well. Hedman is a legitimate #1 dman. Is Rielly even truly a #2, or is he actually a #3. Two huge differences there.

Rielly is a #1. He's a mediocre one, but he's a legit #1.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner was their best player for the series including game 7.

24 minutes of ice time, 0 shots in game 7.... 11 million dollar player. Yes, if all of the leafs players performed as incredibly as Marner, the team would not have recorded a single shot.

His hail mary flip pass in OT of game 6 directly lead to the gwg. It is those risky selfish plays that continue to cost this team in the playoffs.

 

[Menzinger]

24 minutes of ice time, 0 shots in game 7.... 11 million dollar player. Yes, if all of the leafs players performed as incredibly as Marner, the team would not have recorded a single shot.

His hail mary flip pass in OT of game 6 directly lead to the gwg. It is those risky selfish plays that continue to cost this team in the playoffs.

Yep.

While I'd say overall he definitely had a good series he also had a couple quite games though, which shouldn't have to happen with a guy like him.

 

[Racer88]

Remind me how many points Tampa’s big guys produced in game 7? Tampas cap commitment to the top of their line up is similar to Toronto’s. Their guys at the bottom gave them the push they needed to get over the hump.

Thx for playing……try again

I thought that killing penalties blocking shots and whatnot was considered he substance around here and point production was flash & sizzle.
I thought Mitch (and the rest of the big guys for that matter) played his balls off. Just didn’t get the breaks, doesn’t make it okay or acceptable or even determine if the same group comes back, but the loss wasn’t lack of effort and compete

Sorry but you don’t pay a guy 11 million per year to just block shots and kill penalties……at least an intelligent GM doesn’t

 

[Trapper]

Good question. I've been saying that this year was different, they played so much better but ... maybe you're right and they didn't quite have that level of desperation that you need to have to win championships. It's so hard to say, so hard to measure so that's the best answer I can give - maybe you're right, I just can't say for sure. Maybe this same group comes out next year and plays with that little bit extra? Or maybe they just need better goaltending, f***ed if I know.

Is complacency the killer instinct problem? As mentioned, this team can’t rise in the moments to deliver the death blow. Win a game lose a game.
Even in the assessment of team played better, they still threw out stinker moments.
That to me could be a product of sum of the parts. Too passive as a group, no anger.
If they were a prize fighter they would stand there while the other guy recovered instead of the knock out punch. That’s my reason of 1 core player change for another.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t want to say the team didn’t want enough or they don’t care….at least this past playoffs it showed they wanted more and were not happy about the 1st round exit. Personally I am glad it happened but it is a few years too late.
I really think it is their mentality that lacks that extra push and if Keefe and Dubas are too nice to rip them bc they are afraid they might leave via UFA or they might not be able to handle tough love, all of them should not be on the Leafs.

The goal is the Cup. Whenever we hear those who won the Cups, they all say stuff like the sacrifice they took in order to win. These sacrifices are not just blocking shots, playing hurt or taking less with contracts but also playing for the team instead of individual stats. I don’t think anyone on TB cares who scores in the PP or who is out there in the PK, bc they know what they needed to do. Shoot in PP when there is an opening and block shots in PK if opposing is shooting.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No doubt they played better than playoffs past. However, it really doesn’t take much for them to improve from the Habs and the BJs series. Just hope they improve even more by next playoffs.

I think they played not just better but much better. But yup, need to be better still.

Is complacency the killer instinct problem? As mentioned, this team can’t rise in the moments to deliver the death blow. Win a game lose a game.
Even in the assessment of team played better, they still threw out stinker moments.
That to me could be a product of sum of the parts. Too passive as a group, no anger.
If they were a prize fighter they would stand there while the other guy recovered instead of the knock out punch. That’s my reason of 1 core player change for another.

Could be. Don't really know what else to say except ... could be.

I don’t want to say the team didn’t want enough or they don’t care….at least this past playoffs it showed they wanted more and were not happy about the 1st round exit. Personally I am glad it happened but it is a few years too late.
I really think it is their mentality that lacks that extra push and if Keefe and Dubas are too nice to rip them bc they are afraid they might leave via UFA or they might not be able to handle tough love, all of them should not be on the Leafs.

The goal is the Cup. Whenever we hear those who won the Cups, they all say stuff like the sacrifice they took in order to win. These sacrifices are not just blocking shots, playing hurt or taking less with contracts but also playing for the team instead of individual stats. I don’t think anyone on TB cares who scores in the PP or who is out there in the PK, bc they know what they needed to do. Shoot in PP when there is an opening and block shots in PK if opposing is shooting.

Could be. Don't really know what else to say except ... could be.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think they played not just better but much better. But yup, need to be better still.


Could be. Don't really know what else to say except ... could be.


Could be. Don't really know what else to say except ... could be.

I think if the playoffs starts again today, I think the Leafs are good enough to beat any teams including TB but I don’t think they have what it takes to win the Cup.
One thing that kept still have not address is balance scoring, AM, MM, JT and Willie needs to split up. When you look at teams still playing they often have a Top 9 and a 4th line. Their 4th line is a line that is not a liability in Defence. Then one of their top two lines is also a shutdown or matchup lines against opposing team. The 3rd line is usually a shelter offensive line that can still play D.
To me ideally and based on the Leafs playoffs lineup.
Mik-JT-MM should be that matchup line bc JT can win faceoffs, Mik and MM are probably the best defensive wingers on the team.
Bunting-AM-Kerfoot should be the top line with AM leading charge.
Willie-Engvall-Spezza as the shelter offensive line.
Then you got Blackwell-Kampf-Kase as the forth line.

The Dcorps is fine and I am not going to have another post about Lilly over Holl….but whoever are playing need to be physical and be conservative except Reilly.

Then there is the goalie.

Personally if those Helly’s rumor is true, Dubas needs to get it done even if it means MM going the other way.

As for their mental issues, Keefe and Dubas needs to figure out a way to get the message of Cup Winners sacrifice their own stats to each and everyone of them.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Rielly is a #1. He's a mediocre one, but he's a legit #1.

Sorry, I don’t agree. Not very good in his own end, doesn’t have a shot from the point to run the PP, rarely on the PK. He can skate and is good on the breakout.
I know it’s just my opinion. I do like Rielly, but to be effective he needs a solid stay-at-home defensive partner.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sorry, I don’t agree. Not very good in his own end, doesn’t have a shot from the point to run the PP, rarely on the PK. He can skate and is good on the breakout.
I know it’s just my opinion. I do like Rielly, but to be effective he needs a solid stay-at-home defensive partner.

He's easily one of the top 32 defensemen in the league, likely borderline top 20.

 

[Captain Crunch]

He's easily one of the top 32 defensemen in the league, likely borderline top 20.

I guess it depends on how you define what a #1 dman is. On the Leafs, he is our #1 dman. Would he be on the Canes, or Avs, or the Rangers, to name a few?

 

[ACC1224]

24 minutes of ice time, 0 shots in game 7.... 11 million dollar player. Yes, if all of the leafs players performed as incredibly as Marner, the team would not have recorded a single shot.

His hail mary flip pass in OT of game 6 directly lead to the gwg. It is those risky selfish plays that continue to cost this team in the playoffs.

Certainly a simple way to look at it.

 

[Dreakmur]

I guess it depends on how you define what a #1 dman is. On the Leafs, he is our #1 dman. Would he be on the Canes, or Avs, or the Rangers, to name a few?

There are 32 teams, so there should be that many #1 defensemen, right?