Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

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Here are some initial thoughts regarding that:

1.) Coach - I don't like his complacent attitude one bit, plus his adjustments in the playoffs haven't been very good. He also has no idea how to get us through other team's shells when they collapse to the net and force us to the perimeter. My biggest concern is a playoff team implementing this strategy again next year (it was one of my concerns after last season and TB used it in 7 to get rid of us). Trotz is available, Sullivan may also be free soon
2.) Goalie - It's time to get us a consistent #1. I like Jack, but I don't think he's the guy you go on a deep run with. You can take a gamble and go for Gibson, hoping he returns to his elite form (though if he doesn't, that contract is yikes....). Otherwise I'd like Blackwood from NJ
3.) Explore trading one of the big 4 - Time to see what we can get. Logically, the only option is dealing Nylander so you look to see the pieces you get for him. My pipe dream is talking to Tavares and seeing how he feels about waiving, but I know that has a very small likelihood of happening. I'm not 100% on dealing them, but you should start to explore
4.) Add more functional grit to the team. By that, I mean adding someone like a Tyler Bertuzzi or Evander Kane. With Kane I know he has issues, but if he's willing to take a 1 year option I'll take him. Bertuzzi has the vaccine issues but I'm assuming mandates go away relatively soon, otherwise he's obviously not an option
I think Keefe has been OK. He gets criticized a ton but I think we could do worse. That said, I hate the fact that Dubas seems to be married to him.

Everything else I agree with, especially getting a #1 goalie. If we don't get that done, it's hard for me to see how anything else we do or don't do matters much and moving Nylander to help make that happen makes a ton of sense to me.
 
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When Leiweke was hired he instilled the mantra of "winning before profits" that saw Masai come in and change raptors and shanahan appointed that led to scorched earth.

Since then it seems only Masai seemed to have carried "Winning before profits" mantra
Yup Shanny can’t hold a candle to Masai and I don’t even like basketball
 
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1652690440732-png.547782

This is pure gold!

I can't believe Leafs management is trying to sell that line.

It's even worse that there are so many buying it.
 
Same result though. If the Habs didn't get an empty net goal in game 7 last year, it would've been a game 7 loss by one goal. Where is all this amazing $40 Million fire power? Where are the insane dangles or head-fakes to get open and get the goal or the assist? You know, the stuff that brings in $10-$11 million annually for some big dawgs.



We're bringing parlor tricks to a knife fight. It all looks nice and sparkley until everyone else brings their blades out and it gets real.

We're playing schoolyard rules and everyone else is back-alley rules.

Are we waiting for these 25-31 year old men to get tougher so they can break through, or are we waiting for the style of play to change in the playoffs?



When a battalion goes into a fight they don't all just grab the same machine guns and run into the fight. They have different people doing different things with differing artilery, it allows the Command different methods of attack and defense. Some might refer to this as "having a plan".



The Maple Leafs shoot bullets real well, a bunch of very skilled marksmen. But in the Playoffs other teams are bringing RPGs, tanks, air-strike, shotguns, etc. and it seems like we are refusing to utilize these options.



They keep accepting failure so it will keep happening. As a fan you might think "well this was the 2 time defending champs, super experienced, tough team - we took them the distance and we'll be better next year" and that's fine. The problem is the players, team, management and ownership has adopted this same attitude too. I can't believe the post-game and season ending pressers. No one seems pissed, no one saying 'we can't accept this result anymore'. The attitude coming across is more along the lines of "what did you expect us to do? They gave us all we can handle. We can't handle anymore".



The problem with this group is there is NO ONE affiliated with the team that refuses to lose. There has been no progress made here. Have they not been to the first round before? Have they not had a series lead before? Have they not felt the pressure of an elimination game? Have they not been to a game 7? WHAT IS the progress then? Could you chart it out?



Have they won a game 7? Or any game that actually matters? It's not that this team shrinks from adversity, but when another team wants it more, or has something more to play for, this group hasn't shown the ability to match or exceed that level. They can't dictate pace in a game like that.



There used to be a coach here with a plan and an attitude towards real championship asperations but this group got him fired because he's a meanie. Truth is they didn't like whay he had to say and tuned them out. All he was trying to tell them was what time it is in the league. What was the big deal with him & Marner, something about team or teammate work ethic? Sounds like something they SHOULD be talking about but don't want to hurt anyones feelings so there's no ackwardness in training camp next year.



All the things said about Mike Babcock personally, whatever. Even Franzen said he's a fantastic coach, one of the most prepared guys ever, after saying he's one of the worst as a person. Well, I don't care about him as a person. These guys aren't here to foster friendships are they? I don't go to work looking to make new best friends. People were mortified that Babcock was a hard ass so they brought in one of Heaven's most precious angels in Saint Sheldon Keefe.



Well, everyone seems like good friends in the locker room still, so there's that! They all really believe in each other in there, the belief is as strong as ever and with that kind of power the *sky is the limit.





*=Round 1 GM 7 loss
Not to mention, why was marner at the movies two days after being eliminated. I'm not saying he deserved the car jacking obviously but that was eye opening for me. If I was getting eleven million a year to do a job and I failed at it I would at least stay at home and think about why I failed.
 
Just looking at capfriendly, How in the did Petr Mrazek get a 10 team no trade list ? Who's his agent ?
His agent doesn’t have to be anything special to wrangle one of those out of Dubas………it’s Dubas

Not to mention, why was marner at the movies two days after being eliminated. I'm not saying he deserved the car jacking obviously but that was eye opening for me. If I was getting eleven million a year to do a job and I failed at it I would at least stay at home and think about why I failed.
Because the party at Tavares Muskoka cottage mansion only lasted 1 1/2 days.
 
This is pure gold!

I can't believe Leafs management is trying to sell that line.

It's even worse that there are so many buying it.

Propaganda machine at work man. You question the incompetence you are cancelled right away. I've never seen such things in my decades of leafs fandom.

It is just bonkers.

Just looking at capfriendly, How in the did Petr Mrazek get a 10 team no trade list ? Who's his agent ?

The correct question to ask would be who is the GM that gave him that? ;)
 
I think we need to become more versatile offensively.

Sure we're very good at entering the zone, maintaining the puck on the perimeter and eventually threading passes into the middle high danger areas but in the playoffs this isnt always going to work and many times you actually have to go right through the defence and not around it.

When we have a lane to the outside and a step on the defender, stop curling back so much and instead take the puck directly to the front of the net. You'll start drawing more holding, tripping and interference penalties. You'll start scoring more goals where the innitial chance is stopped but the trailers will be able to bang in easy rebound/open net goals.

Start firing the puck more from the blueline with our forwards storming the front of the net for tips. I know the analytics downplay slappers from the point but this shouldnt mean that you almost remove it totally from your offensive repertoire.

The last 3 playoffs we only have 2 rebound goals for 5v5. We need to be able to score in multiple ways if we're going to win a championship and thus far we've been stymied too often in big games. Good thing is this doesnt always have to be from a personel change and can simply be from a change in strategy/mindset.
 
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Yeah some are. And some are full of excuses year after year and pretend they're smarter than everyone else and make condescending comments over and over. Results be damned!
Ya'll are sad for buying into rolling it back and/or keeping Dubas/Keefe. Especially Keefe. Toronto deserves better

It's honestly insane.

You would think after the loss to the jackets that dubas would be on a short leash.

Then the embarrassing loss to the Habs after having a 3-1series lead, surely that would be enough to get dubas fired.

We now have a 4th consecutive first round loss with dubas as gm and there are still so many dubas fan boys telling us how amazing Kyle is.

I honestly think they aren't even leaf fans. Why else would you want to keep a proven failure of a gm? I even had one poster say that no matter how many first round loses, Kyle is not to be fired.

The guy couldn't even make it as a player agent. Yet somehow he tricked shanny into thinking he's some genius. But then again, it seems like shanny has mlse fooled as well.
 
When Leiweke was hired he instilled the mantra of "winning before profits" that saw Masai come in and change raptors and shanahan appointed that led to scorched earth.

Since then it seems only Masai seemed to have carried "Winning before profits" mantra

That mantra has never made sense anyways. More winning almost always means more profits. Wouldn't MLSE like the revenue from 6-12 extra home dates from a Stanley Cup finals run? Can you imagine the price of a ticket in the last row way up in the rafters for a Stanley Cup finals game?

I actually don't think profits have much to do with the issue with Shanahan. I think Shanahan (and Dubas) chose an approach and they want to prove that it can be successful, and be able to say 'I told you so'. It's a high stakes gamble - if it works they look great, but if next season ends essentially the same I think the entire group gets shown the door from Shanahan on down.

If Shanahan was to change GMs, he probably buys himself more time. If Dubas fires Keefe or trades one of the core, he might buy himself time. If they run it back, what justification will there be for ownership to keep them unless there is significant improvement in the playoffs next season?
 
This is pure gold!

I can't believe Leafs management is trying to sell that line.

It's even worse that there are so many buying it.
Nobody is buying it outside of the biggest true believers. Even Keefe realized he was talking garbage when he added that last sentence to his comment. Shoulda just kept his mouth shut.
 
It's honestly insane.

You would think after the loss to the jackets that dubas would be on a short leash.

Then the embarrassing loss to the Habs after having a 3-1series lead, surely that would be enough to get dubas fired.

We now have a 4th consecutive first round loss with dubas as gm and there are still so many dubas fan boys telling us how amazing Kyle is.

I honestly think they aren't even leaf fans. Why else would you want to keep a proven failure of a gm? I even had one poster say that no matter how many first round loses, Kyle is not to be fired.

The guy couldn't even make it as a player agent. Yet somehow he tricked shanny into thinking he's some genius. But then again, it seems like shanny has mlse fooled as well.
Weak from the top on down
 
After sleeping on it, I am fine with all management staying.

My anger is more with the depth they surrounded the core with. If the management has anger towards them as well, then management is cool with me.

Let's get some game 7 Nick Paul's in there. These guys are cheap and play above their pay grade in the playoffs.

I still don't understand how Nick Paul beat our depth in game 7. Our depth is capable of making Nick Paul look like a scrub, they're just not willing. If they're not willing in game 7 3 years in a row, they will never be willing.

If management thinks our depth has been fine...clear them out.

Shanny has been here for 8 years.

Dubas was hired on 2014 and has been gm for 4 consecutive first round loses.

How many more do you need before you aren't fine with management staying?
 
I think we need to become more versatile offensively.

Sure we're very good at entering the zone, maintaining the puck on the perimeter and eventually threading passes into the middle high danger areas but in the playoffs this isnt always going to work and many times you actually have to go right through the defence and not around it.

When we have a lane to the outside and a step on the defender, stop curling back so much and instead take the puck directly to the front of the net. You'll start drawing more holding, tripping and interference penalties. You'll start scoring more goals where the innitial chance is stopped but the trailers will be able to bang in easy rebound/open net goals.

Start firing the puck more from the blueline with our forwards storming the front of the net for tips. I know the analytics downplay slappers from the point but this shouldnt mean that you almost remove it totally from your offensive repertoire.

The last 3 playoffs we only have 2 rebound goals for 5v5. We need to be able to score in multiple ways if we're going to win a championship and thus far we've been stymied too often in big games. Good thing is this doesnt always have to be from a personel change and can simply be from a change in strategy/mindset.
They need to play more direct in game 6 and 7 situations. Save the obsession with possession and fancy stuff for when you get leads. Until they do that, they'll never go on deep runs.
 
Not to mention, why was marner at the movies two days after being eliminated. I'm not saying he deserved the car jacking obviously but that was eye opening for me. If I was getting eleven million a year to do a job and I failed at it I would at least stay at home and think about why I failed.
:help:
 
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Just looking at capfriendly, How in the did Petr Mrazek get a 10 team no trade list ? Who's his agent ?
I wouldn't read too much into a NTC. If a player like Mrazek is looking like his career is dwindling and isn't wanted here or getting a spot on the roster, I'm sure he would be willing to go to any team that gives him a chance. I know I would rather play in Buffalo or Arizona over playing in the AHL or sitting in the press box.
 
They lost by one goal in game 7 to a team that’s won the last two and looks primed for a finals run and a shot at #3. Who cares about past losses? What good does that do hanging that on the current group?
We’re strides made from beginning of the season to end of season? Yes.


There's no way you expected 4 consecutive failures with dubas as gm. Will one more be enough? Or are you happy as long as dubas gets to keep his job?
 
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I wouldn't read too much into a NTC. If a player like Mrazek is looking like his career is dwindling and isn't wanted here or getting a spot on the roster, I'm sure he would be willing to go to any team that gives him a chance. I know I would rather play in Buffalo or Arizona over playing in the AHL or sitting in the press box.
i think you are downplaying an athlete's ego especially considering he is the one who decided to come here.
 
Is Dubas too loyal? What kind of culture have we created? Is there accountability? Are we loveable losers? What is the sound of one hand clapping?
 
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Propaganda machine at work man. You question the incompetence you are cancelled right away. I've never seen such things in my decades of leafs fandom.

It is just bonkers.



The correct question to ask would be who is the GM that gave him that? ;)

Some of us are intelligent enough to see through the propaganda.

But the dubas fan boys just drink it up.

I wonder if the media supports dubas due to his "wokeness".

Anyone else in Toronto would be roasted alive for wasting 4 years of the most promising team I've seen.

Shanny has 0 in 8 years
Keefe outcoached in every playoff he's been in
But they deserve a pat on the back to some because they competed this time.... well in most of the games.

That line of thinking is so devoid of logic.

We fought a stacked Washington to a close 6 games one season after coming last.

We then took a strong Boston to 7 games the next year.

Yet four consecutive first round loses later and Leafs brass is trying to sell this garbage. They must think leaf fans are dumb.

The sad thing is that there are many buying it.
 
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