Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[egd27]

For example, the not understanding what a team brings after winning a game, specifically the game 2 and 4 terrible efforts for the most part. Having to come back in game 5 for a win only to immediately forget the lesson and get down 2-0 again in game 6

This sums it up nicely IMO

They are not prepared to go at puck drop far too often. Sometimes their skill can bail them out, but too often it can't.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[egd27]

You don't see Dekes, Zekes, Notbias or Fogelhund much anymore.

The bright side of losing?

 

[notbias]

You don't see Dekes, Zekes, Notbias or Fogelhund much anymore.

I'm still posting, most of the responses I get are "first-round exit" it's hard to have intelligent conversations when people post the same thing over and over again and have nothing to add.

Also, can really only talk about the future right now and not current games happening, so I am assuming people post less.

I haven't changed my opinion on the core of this team (always been indifferent about Nylander), and think we have the right manager and coach to get us where we need to go.

 

[Trapper]

The bright side of losing?

There is no bright side of losing. A fact list on too many. I’d rather read posts of how great we actually are vs. how great they think they are.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We need something that doesn’t bring as many questions as the move. Is it the Jets goalie? A young goalie out of NYR? Not a Campbell experiment that he’s 30 years old with a hit and miss career to date. Something that corrects the problem once and for all moving forward.

It's tough, goalies being voodoo and all no matter what we do it will be a gamble. I do think we need to do our due diligence, pick someone and roll the dice though. I also agree that Campbell doesn't seem like a good bet at this point. I love the guy but I think we need to try to do better.

 

[ACC1224]

There is no bright side of losing. A fact list on too many. I’d rather read posts of how great we actually are vs. how great they think they are.

Amen to that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You don't see Dekes, Zekes, Notbias or Fogelhund much anymore.

I have the first two on ignore but they're probably busy planning the parades. One for our "best month ever" and one for our "best season ever".

Remember all that bragging about what an elite team we have? Wasn't November awesome?

 

[ToneDog]

I have the first two on ignore but they're probably busy planning the parades. One for our "best month ever" and one for our "best season ever".

Remember all that bragging about what an elite team we have? Wasn't November awesome?

Embarassing.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

You don't see Dekes, Zekes, Notbias or Fogelhund much anymore.

I don't know why these guys get so much hate on here. I don't agree with them always, but all 4 seem to be good posters who put a lot of effort into their posts, and who are usually just more positive than the rest of us.

Is that really a reason to block someone?

 

[killer1980]

From MLSE's perspective, this situation doesn't require action currently. Business is good, customer base is satisfied. There is no sense of urgency.

Was lucky to be a fly on the wall in Harold Ballard's bunker in the 70s when he was asked why he doesn't try to do better with his team? He answered, "Look around, how many empty seats do you see? We have the best TV contract in the league. I am a business man."

There never has been and never will be a sense of urgency for the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs until there are unsold seats in the building and tv ratings tank.

 

[ACC1224]

Was lucky to be a fly on the wall in Harold Ballard's bunker in the 70s when he was asked why he doesn't try to do better with his team? He answered, "Look around, how many empty seats do you see? We have the best TV contract in the league. I am a business man."

There never has been and never will be a sense of urgency for the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs until there are unsold seats in the building and tv ratings tank.

Seats are unsold for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds for seemingly forever.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Was lucky to be a fly on the wall in Harold Ballard's bunker in the 70s when he was asked why he doesn't try to do better with his team? He answered, "Look around, how many empty seats do you see? We have the best TV contract in the league. I am a business man."

There never has been and never will be a sense of urgency for the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs until there are unsold seats in the building and tv ratings tank.

From a fan's perspective, this will always be a downfall of many Toronto sports fans; we are owned by groups that have no personal feelings either way as long as revenue is strong.

If we had a rich owner with a perosnality and an ego (think Cuban in the NBA), they would tie the orgs success directly to their own happiness, and you can be damned sure 55 years of mediocrity wouldn't be approached with such a blase, steady as we go attitude.

Obviously Ballard is an example of the downside of that arrangement, but TML are too profitable now for someone like him to ever take over again.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

My opinion FWIW:

Yes they both make some good posts.
Yes they both put a lot of effort into their posts.
Yes they are very positive.

Nothing wrong with any of that. However ...

I've never seen either concede even the most minor of points which is frustrating because nobody's always right.
They post a ton of stats, but from what I've seen, they only post the stats that show our team in a positive light, everything else gets ignored. So a complete lack of objectivity.
Worst for me, is the lack of intellectual integrity. By that I mean twisting people's words around etc. which to me suggests more interest in winning arguments than having an intelligent discussion.

I don't think you need others to concede in an online sports discussion. If you can't agree on something, or they are unwilling to budge, I just move on with my day.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think you need others to concede in an online sports discussion. If you can't agree on something, or they are unwilling to budge, I just move on with my day.

Sure, I was just trying to answer your question and explain why so many posters have had it with those guys.

 

[DuklaNation]

Was lucky to be a fly on the wall in Harold Ballard's bunker in the 70s when he was asked why he doesn't try to do better with his team? He answered, "Look around, how many empty seats do you see? We have the best TV contract in the league. I am a business man."

There never has been and never will be a sense of urgency for the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs until there are unsold seats in the building and tv ratings tank.

I had inside access to Leafs/Raps many years ago. I was surprised at that time about the extent of TV revenues. I can only imagine now with rapid GTA expansion and consolidation with ownership being the broadcaster. They're raking in a lot. When you think about it, from a pure P&L standpoint, the salary cap era for the Leafs has been very good for the bottom line.

 

[Mess]

Seats are unsold for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds for seemingly forever.

You would think opportunity finacial loss $$ of not making it past the 1st round would be weighing on MLSE that it would put pressure on management down to produce, or risk replacement.

Doesn't seem to be the case, in Toronto as it is in other markets that demand success and extra revenue from playoff streams to fuel profit levels.

Going on 18 years now MLSE hasn't sold a single round #2 and beyond seat ticket which is even prior to OTPP (Teachers pension plan) and Rogers/Bell acquisition, ownership change that happened in 2011.

 

[Gabriel426]

My opinion FWIW:

Yes they both make some good posts.
Yes they both put a lot of effort into their posts.
Yes they are very positive.

Nothing wrong with any of that. However ...

I've never seen either concede even the most minor of points which is frustrating because nobody's always right.
They post a ton of stats, but from what I've seen, they only post the stats that show our team in a positive light, everything else gets ignored. So a complete lack of objectivity.
Worst for me, is the lack of intellectual integrity. By that I mean twisting people's words around etc. which to me suggests more interest in winning arguments than having an intelligent discussion.

Funny you mentioned this. Bc Zekes actually mentioned something along the lines of if you ignore the stats the Leafs played well in a games thread or post game thread.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't think you need others to concede in an online sports discussion. If you can't agree on something, or they are unwilling to budge, I just move on with my day.

The thing is this is a discussion forum but most often, those few being discussed would always just stick with their minds and quote people in pieces and ran with their narrative. When confronted they would once again pick a sentence in others post and switch the topic and rinse and repeat.
Not going to name names but they would rather win the argument than actually have discussions.
Gary, Tone, ACC, and a few others and I always have great discussions. We don’t agree with everything but we don’t manipulate others words. We keep it respectful among each other.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Biggest reason is the lack of objectivity and the dishonesty with which they post and when called on either ignore it or claim the are 'paraphrasing'.

As Woody Allen said back when he was funny and before he turned into a creepy guy, subjectivity is objectivity.

 

[Racer88]

For me, and it's only me - the incessant and I mean incessant stats, expected stats, multi quotes and responding to only partial pieces of what someone said. Basically, just picking a sentence, take it all out of context and run with it.

Again, just me.

Me too. my Favourite is “expected goal”. The craziest nonsense I have ever heard

 

[Gary Nylund]

Funny you mentioned this. Bc Zekes actually mentioned something along the lines of if you ignore the stats the Leafs played well in a games thread or post game thread.

Haha that's hilarious. Reminds me of a few times when Zekes posted some raw points stats to support his agenda. I asked him - you are always mocking these stats as being far inferior to other "advanced" stats, how does it make sense for you to use them now? And the response is (paraphrasing) - I thought those were the stats you guys like so just trying to make you happy. Zero consistency.

 

[PromisedLand]

From MLSE's perspective, this situation doesn't require action currently. Business is good, customer base is satisfied. There is no sense of urgency.

When Leiweke was hired he instilled the mantra of "winning before profits" that saw Masai come in and change raptors and shanahan appointed that led to scorched earth.

Since then it seems only Masai seemed to have carried "Winning before profits" mantra

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

They also played a much better team than the Habs. Went 7 games and got decided by 1 goal. In a short series a team can also ultimately do most of the right things and still end up losing.

Same result though. If the Habs didn't get an empty net goal in game 7 last year, it would've been a game 7 loss by one goal. Where is all this amazing $40 Million fire power? Where are the insane dangles or head-fakes to get open and get the goal or the assist? You know, the stuff that brings in $10-$11 million annually for some big dawgs.



We're bringing parlor tricks to a knife fight. It all looks nice and sparkley until everyone else brings their blades out and it gets real.

We're playing schoolyard rules and everyone else is back-alley rules.

Are we waiting for these 25-31 year old men to get tougher so they can break through, or are we waiting for the style of play to change in the playoffs?



When a battalion goes into a fight they don't all just grab the same machine guns and run into the fight. They have different people doing different things with differing artilery, it allows the Command different methods of attack and defense. Some might refer to this as "having a plan".



The Maple Leafs shoot bullets real well, a bunch of very skilled marksmen. But in the Playoffs other teams are bringing RPGs, tanks, air-strike, shotguns, etc. and it seems like we are refusing to utilize these options.



They keep accepting failure so it will keep happening. As a fan you might think "well this was the 2 time defending champs, super experienced, tough team - we took them the distance and we'll be better next year" and that's fine. The problem is the players, team, management and ownership has adopted this same attitude too. I can't believe the post-game and season ending pressers. No one seems pissed, no one saying 'we can't accept this result anymore'. The attitude coming across is more along the lines of "what did you expect us to do? They gave us all we can handle. We can't handle anymore".



The problem with this group is there is NO ONE affiliated with the team that refuses to lose. There has been no progress made here. Have they not been to the first round before? Have they not had a series lead before? Have they not felt the pressure of an elimination game? Have they not been to a game 7? WHAT IS the progress then? Could you chart it out?



Have they won a game 7? Or any game that actually matters? It's not that this team shrinks from adversity, but when another team wants it more, or has something more to play for, this group hasn't shown the ability to match or exceed that level. They can't dictate pace in a game like that.



There used to be a coach here with a plan and an attitude towards real championship asperations but this group got him fired because he's a meanie. Truth is they didn't like whay he had to say and tuned them out. All he was trying to tell them was what time it is in the league. What was the big deal with him & Marner, something about team or teammate work ethic? Sounds like something they SHOULD be talking about but don't want to hurt anyones feelings so there's no ackwardness in training camp next year.



All the things said about Mike Babcock personally, whatever. Even Franzen said he's a fantastic coach, one of the most prepared guys ever, after saying he's one of the worst as a person. Well, I don't care about him as a person. These guys aren't here to foster friendships are they? I don't go to work looking to make new best friends. People were mortified that Babcock was a hard ass so they brought in one of Heaven's most precious angels in Saint Sheldon Keefe.



Well, everyone seems like good friends in the locker room still, so there's that! They all really believe in each other in there, the belief is as strong as ever and with that kind of power the *sky is the limit.





*=Round 1 GM 7 loss

 

[leafsfan5]

This is getting old, seriously.

There are changes every year, this year will be no different so nobody's running back the same thing. So instead of yelling at the clouds, what changes do you want to see?

GM?
Coach?
President?
Goalie?
1 of the big 4?
More than 1 of the big 4?
Changes in supporting forwards - more grit or WE?
Changes on defence?

All of the above? Some of the above? Fire everyone, trade all our good players and start over again?

Here are some initial thoughts regarding that:

1.) Coach - I don't like his complacent attitude one bit, plus his adjustments in the playoffs haven't been very good. He also has no idea how to get us through other team's shells when they collapse to the net and force us to the perimeter. My biggest concern is a playoff team implementing this strategy again next year (it was one of my concerns after last season and TB used it in 7 to get rid of us). Trotz is available, Sullivan may also be free soon
2.) Goalie - It's time to get us a consistent #1. I like Jack, but I don't think he's the guy you go on a deep run with. You can take a gamble and go for Gibson, hoping he returns to his elite form (though if he doesn't, that contract is yikes....). Otherwise I'd like Blackwood from NJ
3.) Explore trading one of the big 4 - Time to see what we can get. Logically, the only option is dealing Nylander so you look to see the pieces you get for him. My pipe dream is talking to Tavares and seeing how he feels about waiving, but I know that has a very small likelihood of happening. I'm not 100% on dealing them, but you should start to explore
4.) Add more functional grit to the team. By that, I mean adding someone like a Tyler Bertuzzi or Evander Kane. With Kane I know he has issues, but if he's willing to take a 1 year option I'll take him. Bertuzzi has the vaccine issues but I'm assuming mandates go away relatively soon, otherwise he's obviously not an option