Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[mikeyz]

I said it sucked that we got beat by a HOF goalie catching an all time heater. He went god mode for 6-7 weeks, we happened to be at the start of it

So every year it's always something right?

_______ Got hurt
We ran into a hot goalie
They were the 2 time defending champs
The refs screwed us over.

Did you ever stop and think that after six consecutive first-round exits that maybe this team just doesn't have what it takes to succeed in the playoffs?

 

[Gary Nylund]

What "many things" have you criticized him for? Name one.

I will help you out on the other side. I do have to give him credit for resigning Giordano.

The Marner contract is at the top of my list. Promising never to trade Nylander was completely idiotic and should never have happened. Saying Keefe will be legendary or WE that comment was was embarrassing.

There, I named three. Now why don't you calm down and try putting some thought into your posts instead of just labelling everyone a fan boy who isn't constantly ranting about Dubas being a moron. You and your mob are just polluting the hell out of pretty much every thread on this board and making thoughtful discussion almost impossible.

 

[Nylanderthal]

So every year it's always something right?

_______ Got hurt
We ran into a hot goalie
They were the 2 time defending champs
The refs screwed us over.

Did you ever stop and think that after six consecutive first-round exits that maybe this team just doesn't have what it takes to succeed in the playoffs?

Well Tavares did go down and price was unconscious I mean obviously it hasn’t been optimal as far as results go and there’s a bunch of stuff I’d of done different with regard to the roster and even coaching right after this series loss, but I just don’t see what good it does bellyaching on end about it and continually driving the conversation off the rails and away from what the rest of us want to discuss

 

[Trapper]

The part that irritates me is the accountability. The press conference where you weren’t even sorry for the fans. In the least. It was like some sense of accomplishment.
At some point there needs to be consequences.

Shanahan fired an established proven GM for a rookie GM.

That GM fired the established coach (like him or not) for a rookie coach. That GM bet his job multiple times on this core and what? What happened? You should be gone now. The contract is up? You’ve had your chances.

The coach is just a product of the above but not helped by the fact your GM says you will be one of the greats. Who does that? History and results decide who is great and who never gets it done.

There has to be accountability. If you were investing in a product it simply is not delivering this way.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Shanahan fired an established proven GM for a rookie GM. That GM fired the established coach (like him or not) for a rookie coach.

Lou was never fired. He just wasn't re-signed. The plan all along - that everybody was aware of - was for Lou to be there for 3 years, and then Dubas would take over. He only fired the "experienced coach" (who was a toxic mess) when he was nosediving the team off a cliff. Both Cup finalists this year have a "rookie GM" and "rookie coach", for the record, and our rookie GM and coach are infinitely better than the established ones they replaced.

There has to be accountability.

There is accountability. Accountability doesn't just mean blasting everybody into the sun when you don't get the playoff outcome you want.

 

[Nineteen67]

You’re not wrong. As a coach, I’ve told my player a million times that there are times to sacrifice your body and times to be smart. Getting blasted to make an important play is essential, but doing the same for a meaningless play is just dumb. Late in a 5-0 game, there’s very little reason to sacrifice yourself.

Having said that, Nylander did it in such a blatant way that you can barely criticize people who point to it as soft. As soon as the puck roles off his stick, he should have made the decision to end puck pursuit. Instead, he puts himself in a bad spot and has to bail out so obviously that everyone knows exactly what it was.

He sometimes sacrifices when required, but not always. That’s what’s so frustrating about him. He has shown the ability to play a rugged game, but he just won’t commit to it. He has such a perfect set of tools that expectations are through the roof. Unlike Marner, he doesn’t have the size excuse. If Marner gets pushed off the puck or avoids a physical battle, you can hardly blame him… but Nylander is built like a tank.

“The peel out“ isnt what’s bothering most people. As unprofessional and unacceptable as that was, it wasn’t even his worst peel out of the series. The play in the left corner in the dying minutes of game seven, down one goal, was infuriating.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lou was never fired. He just wasn't re-signed. The plan all along - that everybody was aware of - was for Lou to be there for 3 years, and then Dubas would take over. He only fired the "experienced coach" (who was a toxic mess) when he was nosediving the team off a cliff. Both Cup finalists this year have a "rookie GM" and "rookie coach", for the record, and our rookie GM and coach are infinitely better than the established ones they replaced.

There is accountability. Accountability doesn't just mean blasting everybody into the sun when you don't get the playoff outcome you want.

And poster and media are pointing out that the plan has been a costly mistake.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And poster and media are pointing out that the plan has been a costly mistake.

Nothing about Dubas replacing Lou and Keefe replacing Babcock has been a "costly mistake". In fact, quite the opposite. Bullet dodged.

 

[Nineteen67]

Nothing about Dubas replacing Lou and Keefe replacing Babcock has been a "costly mistake". In fact, quite the opposite. Bullet dodged.

Missed revenues.

 

[ACC1224]

The part that irritates me is the accountability. The press conference where you weren’t even sorry for the fans. In the least. It was like some sense of accomplishment.
At some point there needs to be consequences.

Shanahan fired an established proven GM for a rookie GM.

That GM fired the established coach (like him or not) for a rookie coach. That GM bet his job multiple times on this core and what? What happened? You should be gone now. The contract is up? You’ve had your chances.

The coach is just a product of the above but not helped by the fact your GM says you will be one of the greats. Who does that? History and results decide who is great and who never gets it done.

There has to be accountability. If you were investing in a product it simply is not delivering this way.

Good post. It really is puzzling how they view themselves.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The part that irritates me is the accountability. The press conference where you weren’t even sorry for the fans. In the least. It was like some sense of accomplishment.
At some point there needs to be consequences.

Shanahan fired an established proven GM for a rookie GM.

That GM fired the established coach (like him or not) for a rookie coach. That GM bet his job multiple times on this core and what? What happened? You should be gone now. The contract is up? You’ve had your chances.

The coach is just a product of the above but not helped by the fact your GM says you will be one of the greats. Who does that? History and results decide who is great and who never gets it done.

There has to be accountability. If you were investing in a product it simply is not delivering this way.

Between the happy with the split comments, to respect in the handshake line, to Keefe being one of the greats in the future really shows you how comfy everyone is. It's embarrassing really

 

[Dekes For Days]

Missed revenues.

Those decisions haven't resulted in "missed revenue", and Leafs aren't hurting for revenue anyway.

Between the happy with the split comments, to respect in the handshake line, to Keefe being one of the greats in the future really shows you how comfy everyone is.

Actually, what it shows is that people like to exaggerate, misquote, and selectively pick parts out of nothing comments.

 

[ACC1224]

Missed revenues.

Yep, upwards of 30-50 million lost.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yep, upwards of 30-50 million lost.

Covid helped them a little, but it’s still in that neighborhood. Has any other business spent that much on “on the job training“ of one guy?

Wait and see, in a couple of years, he’ll go somewhere with more accountability and win a few rounds. Meanwhile, the Leafs will be left looking to find Matthews’ replacement with picks 45, 75 and 170.

Those decisions haven't resulted in "missed revenue", and Leafs aren't hurting for revenue anyway.

Actually, what it shows is that people like to exaggerate, misquote, and selectively pick parts out of nothing comments.

Oh?

 

[ToneDog]

The part that irritates me is the accountability. The press conference where you weren’t even sorry for the fans. In the least. It was like some sense of accomplishment.
At some point there needs to be consequences.

Shanahan fired an established proven GM for a rookie GM.

That GM fired the established coach (like him or not) for a rookie coach. That GM bet his job multiple times on this core and what? What happened? You should be gone now. The contract is up? You’ve had your chances.

The coach is just a product of the above but not helped by the fact your GM says you will be one of the greats. Who does that? History and results decide who is great and who never gets it done.

There has to be accountability. If you were investing in a product it simply is not delivering this way.

Who at MLSEL said, Cliff look around the seats are filled, why do we need to sign Gretzky? As long of the fans keep flocking to the games, there is no need for accountability. Kinda like the Canadian government blowing $20m on the CovidAlert app. No worries, we'll just raise taxes to make it up.

 

[justashadowof]

The biggest cost could be in two summers if the team can't win some playoff series and go deep into the playoffs. 8 1st round exits (or 7 plus 1 series win or something like that) could guarantee that Matthews won't want to stay here. We saw his hunger for some playoff success this past playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Between the happy with the split comments, to respect in the handshake line, to Keefe being one of the greats in the future really shows you how comfy everyone is. It's embarrassing really

As embarrasing as some of the fanbase saying that they lost to the B2B SC champs or that they have only lost to SC finalists in 3 of 4 years under Dubas, or we scored more goal than Tampa in the series.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seems some people here have some pretty optimistic projections of the revenue that Babcock bobblehead day would have generated for the Leafs.

 

[justashadowof]

Good post. It really is puzzling how they view themselves.

I don't want to get too in-depth into this subject but it's not just MLSE. Corporations are doing a lot of weird stuff in the past 5 years or so. Ever heard of this Kanban/agile crap? Absolutely insidious rot to any corporation that has regulatory requirements it has to follow. Not to mention how emboldened entities like pharma corps and all levels of governments have gotten is just crazy. They literally don't seem to care what the customer thinks any longer. At the municipal government level I've noticed that they've gone from openly sharing news with their constituents 5 years ago to just ignoring them altogether.

 

[Nineteen67]

Seems some people here have some pretty optimistic projections of the revenue that Babcock bobblehead day would have generated for the Leafs.

Actually that’s an expense.

Find a more absurd deflection, Miss Shannon.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Nothing about Dubas replacing Lou and Keefe replacing Babcock has been a "costly mistake". In fact, quite the opposite. Bullet dodged.

I mean if you restrict it to Dubas Lou Babcock and Keefe being the only 4 options then yeah it's not really that hard to say it was better choosing Dubas and Keefe.

Except in reality we are not restricted to just those 4. Seeing as we have nothing of value to speak of results wise, you can't really prove things would be worse if they went in other directions.


Most people don't even know the assistant coach name in charge of the PK if they had to say it right now off the top of their head. Yet he was the most important coach for us all season long, and one we need to keep at all costs. Just because we don't know who these options are that may have brought us more success doesn't mean they are not out there.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Actually that’s an expense.
Find a more absurd deflection

Clearly, all of the fans would have flocked to the arena and bought all of the merchandise and concessions once they saw that egotistical Babcock grin waving back and forth.

The only thing "absurd" is the claim that replacing Lou/Babcock with Dubas/Keefe cost this team revenues, let alone 30-50 million. If anything, the decision increased revenues. I mean, they had to continue to pay Babcock because nobody else wanted to hire him, but that's also an expense, not "missed revenues".

And no deflections here. A deflection would be more like if I just replied "oh?" instead of addressing the discussion or justifying the claim.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I mean if you restrict it to Dubas Lou Babcock and Keefe being the only 4 options then yeah it's not really that hard to say it was better choosing Dubas and Keefe.
Except in reality we are not restricted to just those 4. Seeing as we have nothing of value to speak of results wise, you can't really prove things would be worse if they went in other directions.

We can't "prove" any hypothetical. There is no evidence that things would have been better in terms of playoff outcomes or revenue if we went in "other directions", and there's absolutely no justification for 30-50m in "missed revenues" as a result of that decision.

 

[rocketman588]

Clearly, all of the fans would have flocked to the arena and bought all of the merchandise and concessions once they saw that egotistical Babcock grin waving back and forth.

The only thing "absurd" is the claim that replacing Lou/Babcock with Dubas/Keefe cost this team revenues, let alone 30-50 million. If anything, the decision increased revenues. I mean, they had to continue to pay Babcock because nobody else wanted to hire him, but that's also an expense, not "missed revenues".

And no deflections here. A deflection would be more like if I just replied "oh?" instead of addressing the discussion or justifying the claim.

It cost them 30-50 million because anyone who was on their shit would have won at a minimum the cbj and Habs series.

The leafs making a run like the Habs did might have generated that much alone even without fans. Let alone any other playoff run in the last two seasons

(mod)

 

[Dekes For Days]

It cost them 30-50 million because anyone who was on their shit would have won at a minimum the cbj and Habs series.

1. There is no reason to believe that any alternative GM or coach, much less Lou/Babcock, would have resulted in better playoff outcomes in 2020 or 2021.
2. It wouldn't matter anyway, because there were no revenues from the playoffs those years, because people weren't allowed in the arena due to Covid.