Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[WTFMAN99]

1. There is no reason to believe that any alternative GM or coach, much less Lou/Babcock, would have resulted in better playoff outcomes in 2020 or 2021.
2. It wouldn't matter anyway, because there were no revenues from the playoffs those years, because people weren't allowed in the arena due to Covid.

Why? They had much younger Matthews, Marner, Nylander and no JT and got WSH to 6 games and BOS to 7 games.

 

[rocketman588]

1. There is no reason to believe that any alternative GM or coach, much less Lou/Babcock, would have resulted in better playoff outcomes in 2020 or 2021.
2. It wouldn't matter anyway, because there were no revenues from the playoffs those years, because people weren't allowed in the arena due to Covid.

Well Keefe and Dubas performed at basically the worst possible levels for a team with 3 11 million dollar players so maybe we should have fired after this season and tried to see.

Merchandise, increase in corporate and ad revenue within the stadium, future revenue in those areas and in additional future in arena revenue. As you said MLSE make a lot of money anyways because they know what they're doing on the financial side. They would have maximized a cap run

Once again trying to intentionally forget these things exist because it makes your boy look bad. He has cost mlse a shit load of money off of potential revenue.

 

[Nylanderthal]

And poster and media are pointing out that the plan has been a costly mistake.

There’s like six of you in a circle jerk who keep parroting the same nonsense about “rookie GM” or “accountability” etc etc

 

[rocketman588]

We can't "prove" any hypothetical. There is no evidence that things would have been better in terms of playoff outcomes or revenue if we went in "other directions", and there's absolutely no justification for 30-50m in "missed revenues" as a result of that decision.

You're right the only thing we can prove is that Dubas and Keefe haven't gotten out of the first round and are therefore abject failures so they should both be fired.

The person who "lives in hypotheticals" more then anyone is you when you twist yourself into pretzels trying to justify the only thing that has been proven so far. That so far Dubas can't build a team that can get out of the first round of the NHL playoffs

Once again are you excited to wear your Dubas Sudbury wolves jersey?

 

[Nineteen67]

Clearly, all of the fans would have flocked to the arena and bought all of the merchandise and concessions once they saw that egotistical Babcock grin waving back and forth.

The only thing "absurd" is the claim that replacing Lou/Babcock with Dubas/Keefe cost this team revenues, let alone 30-50 million. If anything, the decision increased revenues. I mean, they had to continue to pay Babcock because nobody else wanted to hire him, but that's also an expense, not "missed revenues".

And no deflections here. A deflection would be more like if I just replied "oh?" instead of addressing the discussion or justifying the claim.

Other than fact that they’ve lost playoff revenue because of Dubas’ mistakes, while he was completing his on the job training.

He could hit a HR this off-season, strike lightning, and win a few rounds next season, but he has a lot of moves ahead of him, and his past failures cannot be ignored for putting themselves in the predicament that they are currently in.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why?

The coach/GM aren't the reasons we lost those playoff series.

Merchandise, increase in corporate and ad revenue within the stadium, future revenue in those areas and in additional future in arena revenue.

They're not selling merchandise to ghosts, ad revenue wouldn't be significantly different, and I have no idea what you're even trying to say in the last part. They're not making anywhere close to 30-50m in revenue by advancing in a playoffs with no fans.

You're right the only thing we can prove is that Dubas and Keefe haven't gotten out of the first round and are therefore abject failures

Just because somebody loses in the 1st round, it doesn't make the coach and GM "abject failures". That's such a ridiculously simplistic way of thinking.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The coach/GM aren't the reasons we lost those playoff series.

They're not selling merchandise to ghosts, ad revenue wouldn't be significantly different, and I have no idea what you're even trying to say in the last part. They're not making anywhere close to 30-50m in revenue by advancing in a playoffs with no fans.

They're also not the reason we had the best season in franchise history with that logic then but that particular fact is bandied about quite a bit by the Dubas bootlickers.

 

[rocketman588]

They're not selling merchandise to ghosts, ad revenue wouldn't be significantly different, and I have no idea what you're even trying to say in the last part. They're not making anywhere close to 30-50m in revenue by advancing in a playoffs with no fans.

Considering your on a website on the internet

I assume you know you can sell merchandise online?

Not to mention add deals that are in the stadium online/ on ice deals etc that usually have clauses per playoff round

 

[ACC1224]

They're also not the reason we had the best season in franchise history with that logic then but that particular fact is bandied about quite a bit by the Dubas bootlickers.

They must use up all their luck during the season .

 

[Dekes For Days]

They're also not the reason we had the best season in franchise history with that logic then but that particular fact is bandied about quite a bit by the Dubas bootlickers.

There's a lot more that goes into both a team's regular season record and playoff outcome than who their GM and coach is, but an 82 game sample is also a much better representation of their impact than a 5 or 7 game sample.

 

[Trapper]

There’s like six of you in a circle jerk who keep parroting the same nonsense about “rookie GM” or “accountability” etc etc

You’re right. They aren’t rookies anymore.
It’s time to show why you were hired. Why there wasn’t really much of a GM search and you got the job based on your plan. What is the tangible proof of that plan? Regular season only? It was still a 105 point team under old management. So in 4 years your plan has achieved 10 points.

What do you say if we lose in the 1st round again next season?

 

[WTFMAN99]

There's a lot more that goes into both a team's regular season record and playoff outcome than who their GM and coach is, but an 82 game sample is also a much better representation of their impact than a 5 or 7 game sample.

So Dubas's 26 post-season games aren't indicative? It would take 82 playoff games and consequently, if they were 1st round losses for you to have anything negative to say at all?

Yikes, I couldn't fathom being that big of a sucker.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Other than fact that they’ve lost playoff revenue because of Dubas’ mistakes, while he was completing his on the job training.

Not sure what "mistakes" you're referring to, but they haven't lost playoff revenue because of Dubas, and Dubas is not doing "on-the-job training".

 

[Nineteen67]

There’s like six of you in a circle jerk who keep parroting the same nonsense about “rookie GM” or “accountability” etc etc

Probably because he was a “rookie GM” when he made the mistakes.

 

[Nylanderthal]

You’re right. They aren’t rookies anymore.
It’s time to show why you were hired. Why there wasn’t really much of a GM search and you got the job based on your plan. What is the tangible proof of that plan? Regular season only?

What do you say if we lose in the 1st round again next season?

Same thing as with every season, assess the process and make a determination on what to fix based on that. To me that very well could be coaching or management. I didn’t see that as why we lost this season, but I even said during the series with Tampa and after that I would definitely hold a full review on keefe considering some of the names that were/are available, and I definitely said that if the team lost in the same miserable roll over and die fashion as they did in the past I’d clean house of one core player and probably the coach. That didnt happen. They played balls out to the end and lost in the end by one goal (one that was called back, good call or not it’s one that’s hardly called) to a team that’s currently 3 wins away from a 3 peat and joining the likes of the 80’s islanders, 70’s habs and I suppose the early 60’s leafs and have teams even though that was a 2 round post season in a 6 team house league in being modern day three peat dynasties. Not even the coilers did that with their stacked team. (Thanks Steve smith)
I just don’t see a point in continually yammering on about it when it’s evident that isn’t happening right now.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So Dubas's 26 post-season games aren't indicative?

I mean, they're not valueless, but they certainly can't be used in isolation and with zero context to make incorrect claims about Dubas. You'd have to go a lot deeper than surface outcome to see how it reflects on Dubas.

I assume you know you can sell merchandise online?

I assume you know you can sell merchandise online at any time, not just when you're in the 2nd-4th round of the playoffs? The NHL is primarily a gate-driven league, and non-gate revenues tend to be relatively fixed and independent. You're not going to pull in much extra revenue if you can't have fans.

 

[rocketman588]

Not sure what "mistakes" you're referring to, but they haven't lost playoff revenue because of Dubas, and Dubas is not doing "on-the-job training".

Considering they have played the minimum possible playoff series they have quite obviously lost playoff revenue.

Even if your a person such as yourself that doesn't think a covid cup run would have brought in money. they had a full building this year when they once again lost playoff revenue by playing in the minimum amount of playoff series

 

[Nineteen67]

Not sure what "mistakes" you're referring to, but they haven't lost playoff revenue because of Dubas, and Dubas is not doing "on-the-job training".

Are you insinuating that the core couldnot be complimented with enough quality players to win a round in four years?
That’s possible. Time will tell, but I think management made a few mistakes.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I mean, they're not valueless, but they certainly can't be used in isolation and with zero context to make incorrect claims about Dubas, especially if all you're looking at is surface outcome.

Only one simple claim, the team he assembled was not good enough to win a series. Period, end of statement. You can have garbage GF % or whatever in the playoffs but if you win, that's all anyone will remember.

2 of the series his team was heavily favored to win...and he chose not to make significant changes so if anything, that actually intensifies the scrutiny on him.

You don't get all the credit and none of the failure as the general manager of the team

 

[Dekes For Days]

Only one simple claim, the team he assembled was not good enough to win a series.

The fact that we didn't end up winning a series does not mean the team he assembled was not good enough to win a series. For example, the 2018-2019 Tampa Bay Lightning were good enough to win a series, even though they didn't end up doing so. If the refs didn't take over and Tampa lost in the 1st round this year, that wouldn't have meant that they weren't good enough to win a series. They won multiple series after that, even though they very easily could have lost in the 1st round.

Are you insinuating that the core couldnot be complimented with enough quality players to win a round in four years?

The core could and has been complimented with enough quality players to win a round.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The fact that we didn't end up winning a series does not mean the team he assembled was not good enough to win a series. For example, the 2018-2019 Tampa Bay Lightning were good enough to win a series, even though they didn't end up doing so.

How many playoff games did Tampa Bay Lightning play in 17-18 and how many roster players changed?

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many playoff games did Tampa Bay Lightning play in 17-18

They played 17 playoff games in 2018, and then Brisebois was hired and the team got swept the next year by Columbus. That doesn't mean Brisebois was a failure and built a team incapable of winning a playoff series.

 

[WTFMAN99]

They played 17 playoff games in 2018, and then Brisebois was hired and the team got swept the next year by Columbus. That doesn't mean Brisebois was a failure and built a team incapable of winning a playoff series.

So there was reason to believe that the roster, or at least most of the roster was going to be capable of closing out series though right?

You could argue that they did in fact get a little unlucky vs CBJ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You could argue that they did in fact get a little unlucky vs CBJ?

Sure, you could argue that the outcome of 4 games was less representative of where they were at and the job the GM/coach were doing than the 128-point season they just had. The fact that they lost (and not just lost, got swept and embarrassed by a team that had 30 less points than them) didn't mean that Brisebois was a failure of a GM, and it didn't mean that roster was incapable of winning a playoff series. Good lessons to remember.

Considering they have played the minimum possible playoff series they have quite obviously lost playoff revenue.

The minimum number of possible playoff series is 0, and even within a playoff series, you're only guaranteed 2 home games. The idea that we would have had more playoff home games (especially in 2019 or 2022) with different management isn't supported by anything.

 

[ACC1224]

How many playoff games did Tampa Bay Lightning play in 17-18 and how many roster players changed?

Whatever happened in Tampa is totally irrelevant to what is happening here.