Rumor: Seravalli: Rangers been all over JT Miller

[Peter Griffin]

Way too much.

Putting aside the oddity of trading for a player we moved on from not THAT long ago because of how poorly he meshed with the team culture, the obvious parallel deal here is the Yandle to NY trade from a few years back. High end player at a key position, 50% retained with a season and a half left on his contract. Similar ages (Yandle was 28 when traded).

Yandle returned:
- 1st rounder
- 2nd rounder (the following year)
- a 3rd pair journeyman defender (John Moore)
- a well-regarded rookie (former 3rd round pick Anthony Duclair, who had put up 7 points in his first 18 games).

And that was considered a lot back then. None of those pieces was valued as highly as Schneider. I still don't think Miller is a fit for the Rangers ($$ and bad prior history), but the equivalent Rangers package would look more like:

-1st rounder
-2nd rounder
-Nemeth
-Zac Jones

There are variations to be made here, but none that involve Schneider going back. I wouldn't move Chytil in a Miller trade, either. You want to upgrade from Nemeth to Hajek? Fine--replace the 2nd rounder with a 4th rounder. You want to upgrade from Jones to Nils Lundkvist? Fine. Remove the 1st rounder.

You get a better offer than this from another team? Accept it, by all means.

I don’t think Yandle’s value was equivalent to what Miller’s should be now. Yandle has always been a 1 dimensional PP QB. Miller is top 20 in scoring this year, playing center in all situations. I don’t see their values as being all that similar.

 

[Kranix]

They should be all over Pat Kane.
Signed my fantasy team

 

[bernmeister]

Shouldn't have ever traded him

But under Gallant's system I think he'll be incredible and could work well on any of their lines. Still think Vancouver is too good a fit for him.

Could see maybe Strome going the other way or picks and prospects.

Moving Strome in the equation would help, but it would still be irresponsible win now overreach b'c we do not have any cap for 2 seasons beginning next yr, unless Trouba waives early, which is possible but not likely and less likely sooner than later

EVERYBODY REMEMBER:
NY needs to lose Strome, Geo, Hajek, Nemeth just to get lion's share almost 11+ m to cover ONLY Zib + Fox increases
that does include $ 1 for $ for LaF, Kakko etc which may prompt Lindren to be moved early.

So even if
Krav + Strome + Lindgren + Jones + Geo
for
Miller at half + Pod + Halak,
even just go there just for discussion

even if you get over on the rest of it, you still have zero $ for LaF + KK etc.

and other than Lindgren there is no one else to trade to create cap who doesn't have nmc

Rangers don’t have any of those, unfortunately. I could see Lundkvist going to Vancouver but would probably need more than one-plus season of JT Miller. Unless Vancouver retains. That could be a deal. JTM @50% plus a 3rd for Lundkvist?

Prefer my above variation IF it could be done but as we both note, there is no cap room.

Only thing that makes sense is if they offload Trouba onto you guys. But he would be pissed about it, and you would have like half your cap in RD lol

trouba may relent early and let us bribe, er, induce him to waive, but that will still be to his choice, like FL/TB or similar.

Miller @ 50% for Schneider, Chytil + 2022 1st
Miller @ 50% represents almost the same cap hit as Chytil.

total no
Chytil is essential for when Strome walks or is dealt
also Schneider is the heir apparent to Trouba he goes nowhere.

Although Jones is a lefty shot, he plays either side. He would be the highest quality D they make available (Nils L need b'c he can actually shoot the puck well).
NY should still not commit to cap they cannot afford and will take a loss in moving assets after this yr to get cap compliant. just no

 

[pld459666]

Would be a solid addition.

I don't think his start here would play any role on his return.

Hes a more mature player today than he was and the org is run by a different group today.

I doubt he'd have an issue coming back.

 

[smoneil]

I don’t think Yandle’s value was equivalent to what Miller’s should be now. Yandle has always been a 1 dimensional PP QB. Miller is top 20 in scoring this year, playing center in all situations. I don’t see their values as being all that similar.

Yandle was one of the premier PMD's in the league at a time when there weren't many of them to go around. He also didn't have a checkered past like Miller has re: his two previous stops (and Vancouver for that matter--wasn't there a story earlier this year about a fractured locker room, with Miller leading one of the factions?). It's the closest parallel to be found.

I also have questions about which JT Miller we'd be getting. The ppg player from this season? Or the one who was out-scored by Strome last season? Or the one who was put in the bottom six by TB? His career history is all over the place.

 

[bernmeister]

Add Kratsov

that offer is doa
Krav is not on the table for a rental

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Moving Strome in the equation would help, but it would still be irresponsible win now overreach b'c we do not have any cap for 2 seasons beginning next yr, unless Trouba waives early, which is possible but not likely and less likely sooner than later

EVERYBODY REMEMBER:
NY needs to lose Strome, Geo, Hajek, Nemeth just to get lion's share almost 11+ m to cover ONLY Zib + Fox increases
that does include $ 1 for $ for LaF, Kakko etc which may prompt Lindren to be moved early.

So even if
Krav + Strome + Lindgren + Jones + Geo
for
Miller at half + Pod + Halak,
even just go there just for discussion

even if you get over on the rest of it, you still have zero $ for LaF + KK etc.

and other than Lindgren there is no one else to trade to create cap who doesn't have nmc



Prefer my above variation IF it could be done but as we both note, there is no cap room.


trouba may relent early and let us bribe, er, induce him to waive, but that will still be to his choice, like FL/TB or similar.


total no
Chytil is essential for when Strome walks or is dealt
also Schneider is the heir apparent to Trouba he goes nowhere.

Although Jones is a lefty shot, he plays either side. He would be the highest quality D they make available (Nils L need b'c he can actually shoot the puck well).
NY should still not commit to cap they cannot afford and will take a loss in moving assets after this yr to get cap compliant. just no

There is absolutely zero discussion to be had if you think your getting Miller at 50% and Pod for this, like none.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yandle was one of the premier PMD's in the league at a time when there weren't many of them to go around. He also didn't have a checkered past like Miller has re: his two previous stops (and Vancouver for that matter--wasn't there a story earlier this year about a fractured locker room, with Miller leading one of the factions?). It's the closest parallel to be found.

I think Ryan O’Reilly’s trade out of Buffalo
is a far better comparable and I looked for like 2 minutes.

I also have questions about which JT Miller we'd be getting. The ppg player from this season? Or the one who was out-scored by Strome last season? Or the one who was put in the bottom six by TB? His career history is all over the place.

He’s been basically PPG since arriving in Vancouver, 160GP, 156 points. He’s in his prime right now.

 

[bernmeister]

There is absolutely zero discussion to be had if you think your getting Miller at 50% and Pod for this, like none.

fine
ny will keep its currency and depth

 

[Paddys Pub]

Rags fans are going to be super disappointed if this goes through.
The price for a top line center who is top 20 in points, who plays pp and pk, and is on a sweet heart of a deal……. Going to be massive and include top prospects that fans will not want to give up.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

fine
ny will keep its currency and depth

sounds good to me, we'll keep our best young player and our PPG forward, because you know, if they were both up for grabs your offer would be beat by every team in the league.

 

[Peter Griffin]

fine
ny will keep its currency and depth

Ok? Lol

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

With what cap space?

I know right, Once Zibanejad and Fox new contracts kick in next fall. Good luck with adding JT Miller plus covering for bonuses.

 

[smoneil]

Closest we have to Berglund/Sobotka (30 year old bottom six vet) is someone like Kevin Rooney (worth less than Berg/Sob) or Goodrow (worth more than Berg/Sob). Closest comparable to Tage Thomson at the time that we have would probably be someone like Nils Lundkvist, though he has a bit more value as well.

Frankly, I think Arizona's return for Yandle was better than Buffalo's return for O'Reilly, so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up.

And as for him being a PPG for Vancouver, Miller wouldn't be getting 20+ minutes a night and PP1 time in NY.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Only thing that makes sense is if they offload Trouba onto you guys. But he would be pissed about it, and you would have like half your cap in RD lol

How would Trouba be pissed about it? he has a NMC and he's not waiving to go 3,000 miles to Vancouver for the next 4 years while his wife is a Dr in New York City. Trouba has already stated numerous times that he will never ever play in Canada ever again.

 

[bernmeister]

Rags fans are going to be super disappointed if this goes through.
The price for a top line center who is top 20 in points, who plays pp and pk, and is on a sweet heart of a deal……. Going to be massive and include top prospects that fans will not want to give up.

hopefully drury will be smart enuf to realize trading youth for vets in a construct with an unforgiving, unyielding cap reality is stupid, even more so if you can't keep that team post season due to cap and it will cost to move players.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Closest we have to Berglund/Sobotka (30 year old bottom six vet) is someone like Kevin Rooney (worth less than Berg/Sob) or Goodrow (worth more than Berg/Sob). Closest comparable to Tage Thomson at the time that we have would probably be someone like Nils Lundkvist, though he has a bit more value as well.

Frankly, I think Arizona's return for Yandle was better than Buffalo's return for O'Reilly, so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up.

1st, 2nd, Lundkvist, Goodrow and Rooney is better than what you suggested, that’s why.

And even then, like I said I looked for all of 2 minutes, I’m sure I can find a better comparable than the Yandle trade.

 

[smoneil]

Rags fans are going to be super disappointed if this goes through.
The price for a top line center who is top 20 in points, who plays pp and pk, and is on a sweet heart of a deal……. Going to be massive and include top prospects that fans will not want to give up.

Based on the Canucks forum, where some of y'all think you're getting Lafreniere/Schneider and a first, I'm sure there would be plenty of disappointment to go around if/when a hypothetical trade was made.

 

[smoneil]

1st, 2nd, Lundkvist and Rooney is better than what you suggested, that’s why.

I guess. With Fox/Trouba/Schneider on the right, I'd prefer to hold on to Jones rather than Lundkvist, even though the latter has a bit more value. Rooney is parsley. Nice enough player to have, but he's just kind of there. He could be replaced in house without any concern. We have two second rounders. The only piece here that hurts a bit is the first rounder.

 

[Richter35]

i'd do lundqvist for him at 50%. RHD who will be good for a long time. Do rangers add?

edit: adding a 1st before I get flamed

 

[Peter Griffin]

I guess. With Fox/Trouba/Schneider on the right, I'd prefer to hold on to Jones rather than Lundkvist, even though the latter has a bit more value. Rooney is parsley. Nice enough player to have, but he's just kind of there. He could be replaced in house without any concern. We have two second rounders. The only piece here that hurts a bit is the first rounder.

Don’t get me wrong though, I wouldn’t touch that deal as a Canucks’ fan.

 

[smoneil]

How would Trouba be pissed about it? he has a NMC and he's not waiving to go 3,000 miles to Vancouver for the next 4 years while his wife is a Dr in New York City. Trouba has already stated numerous times that he will never ever play in Canada ever again.

He has? (serious question--I never got the sense that he hated Canada. Hell, I'd move there today if anyone wants to sponsor the immigration, haha).

As far as I know, the issue was that his wife needed to do her Residency in the states. Based on most medical specialties, her residency is almost certainly close to being finished by now (unless she's aiming to be a surgeon). I still wouldn't want to move him, as Trouba has been phenomenal for us. But if we were looking to move him, the ideal time would be that period right after her residency ended and before she started her first regular job (so she could look for a job in the new area).

 

[smoneil]

Don’t get me wrong though, I wouldn’t touch that deal as a Canucks’ fan.

Same. I just don't see Miller putting up "Vancouver numbers" with what his role would be on the Rangers, so it doesn't make sense to pay that price tag. Granted, I also see the Rangers' "window" as opening a year or two from now (ie: after the young kids on D get a bit more experience and the young players throughout the roster get a couple tastes of playoff hockey).

Ironically, 2022 Miller is the kind of player we could have used the year we lost to the Kings in the SCF. A player who could have bumped all of our other centers down a line to get better match-ups. If you're looking for futures, your best bet is a team in contention where Miller would instantly be their top center (or at least have a spot on the top PP unit). Maybe Washington? Carolina? Nashville or TB? Best of luck to you.

 

[nickdawg95]

I think Ryan O’Reilly’s trade out of Buffalo
is a far better comparable and I looked for like 2 minutes.



He’s been basically PPG since arriving in Vancouver, 160GP, 156 points. He’s in his prime right now.

It's not a fair comparable

Mainly because the reason why ROR returned so little was because the sabres owner made it CLEAR that he was not paying his 7 million dollar signing bonus and wanted him traded before then

 

[Vitto79]

With what cap space?

they have space this year and not signing Strome next year opens some

then they could make enough next by moving Chytil and or Nemeth