Weekes: Senators willing to trade high pick or prospect to dump Nikita Zaitsev's contract

[Taluss]

If it involves a 1st to move him that’s just dumb for Ottawa to do imo.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don’t see how any impartial arbitrator is going to see it as anything but a valid loophole within the system. Future consideration moves happen for taking someone in the expansion draft. I’m sure there’s been similar moves when they had the waiver draft.

The expansion draft thing is a good one to bring up as it is the one example of a side deal like this being done

I'd say it is different for a couple of reasons. First off, expansion is a very unique situation. Side deals are expected. Second (and most importantly), there's no victim in expansion.

If a team does this collusion to get around a NTC, that does have a victim. It is clearly against the spirit of the rule, which is of critical importance here as the league has a precedent of nixing moves for this reason. I know the NHL usually sides with owners on all issues but on this one the NHLPA wouldn't even need to file a grievance

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

This has got Sweet Lou all over it. He gave him that contract. Now we can get a 1st rounder and Zaitsev, so when we trade our 13th overall for a depth forward at the draft, we'll still have a 15th overall pick and a shot at Bedard!

IN LOU WE TRUST!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The expansion draft thing is a good one to bring up as it is the one example of a side deal like this being done

I'd say it is different for a couple of reasons. First off, expansion is a very unique situation. Side deals are expected. Second (and most importantly), there's no victim in expansion.

If a team does this collusion to get around a NTC, that does have a victim. It is clearly against the spirit of the rule, which is of critical importance here as the league has a precedent of nixing moves for this reason. I know the NHL usually sides with owners on all issues but on this one the NHLPA wouldn't even need to file a grievance

But the victim isn’t getting traded and players have negotiated for waivers protection in their movement clauses with expressed intent to prevent this sort of thing that is not covered by his clause. I just don’t see a convincing argument when there’s enough precedence that they allow protection from it to be negotiated in.

 

[AKL]

What?

Sending him down in a vacuum doesn’t do anything, because there is no other option. Obviously sending him down when there isn’t an imminent trade in place isn’t going to help anything.

If we send him down, he will just go down. Nothing gets solved.

If he has the option between going down, or waiving to go to a team in which we have a trade in place with a pick and prospect, he will choose to leave. Regardless of what team that is, if the alternative is going to the AHL.

Pretty simple.

No one said sending him down would solve the issue or do what the Sens are trying to do.

Sending him down to play in the AHL would solve the trade clause issue. Not the value.

If you're not saying that sending him down would solve the issue of getting around his NTC, you should stop saying that sending him down would solve the issue of getting around his NTC.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

It cost a 1st to move 1 year of Monahan and a solid NHL ready young defenseman to move Paccioretty. If you a 2nd and a B/C prospect will ever cut it I want whatever you're on

Monahan looked cooked his last year in Calgary, had a 2m higher cap hit/actually salary. Add in Calgary was being aggressive in the off season to retool and it's not far off to say 2nd+ for 4,5m vs 1st for 6.5m is reasonable. If Ottawa was to wait until after his bonus is paid he'd be easy to move at 4.5m vs 2,5m owed.

 

[Mr Positive]

But the victim isn’t getting traded and players have negotiated for waivers protection in their movement clauses with expressed intent to prevent this sort of thing that is not covered by his clause. I just don’t see a convincing argument when there’s enough precedence that they allow protection from it to be negotiated in.

But an agreement to take a player for assets is a trade. It may be technically not the case but practically it is.

I've heard this idea before but we've never seen it. It's not happening. Even if you think it is a viable strategy you'd have to agree it would trigger a firestorm and the nhlpa would go to war over it

 

[ole ole]

This has got Sweet Lou all over it. He gave him that contract. Now we can get a 1st rounder and Zaitsev, so when we trade our 13th overall for a depth forward at the draft, we'll still have a 15th overall pick and a shot at Bedard!

IN LOU WE TRUST!

15th OA doesn't get a shot at Bedard.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

But an agreement to take a player for assets is a trade. It may be technically not the case but practically it is.

I've heard this idea before but we've never seen it. It's not happening. Even if you think it is a viable strategy you'd have to agree it would trigger a firestorm and the nhlpa would go to war over it

Yes but that player isn’t being traded. He’s being waived. It’s not the firestorm you’d think since I believe everyone involved knows this is a possibility which is why they write waiver protection into contracts and the league processes. If one doesn’t have it, this is what you’re risking.

 

[Akrapovince]

If you're not saying that sending him down would solve the issue of getting around his NTC, you should stop saying that sending him down would solve the issue of getting around his NTC.

It will.

He would much rather play in the NHL than the AHL.

The NTC is not the issue on why he hasn’t been traded. It is the value.

Or else we would trade him to the other teams for whatever value they would want. But the value would be too high.

Sending him down doesn’t incentivize other teams to take him for less value. It incentivizes him to waive his ntc in favour of not going to the AHL.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Monahan looked cooked his last year in Calgary, had a 2m higher cap hit/actually salary. Add in Calgary was being aggressive in the off season to retool and it's not far off to say 2nd+ for 4,5m vs 1st for 6.5m is reasonable. If Ottawa was to wait until after his bonus is paid he'd be easy to move at 4.5m vs 2,5m owed.

I said tue same thing about Lucic who's only owed 800k

 

[hbk]

Wasn’t Todd Marchant picked up off waivers by Anaheim to facilitate a Federov trade?

Here’s a reddit on it.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

15th OA doesn't get a shot at Bedard.

Ah yes thanks, ten is the max places to move.

 

[Mr Positive]

Wasn’t Todd Marchant picked up off waivers by Anaheim to facilitate a Federov trade?

Here’s a reddit on it.

I looked into that and not only did Anaheim not receive assets to take him but this article says the league does not allow understandings like assets in exchange for claiming players

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.542698

Although who really knows? I bet if Ottawa is truly willing to give a prime young asset to ditch Zaitsev they will find a taker off the ntc, so this issue seems moot

 

[rt]

That would give an AWFUL reputation to both Ottawa and Arizona to collude this way to get around a player NTC. Pretty sure the players union would be all over that.

Especially if it is written in the trade formally.

I’m sure it happens often.

 

[mouser]

It cost a 1st to move 1 year of Monahan and a solid NHL ready young defenseman to move Paccioretty. If you a 2nd and a B/C prospect will ever cut it I want whatever you're on

That 1st for Monahan might be four years in the future. At which time I expect one or both GMs to no longer be employed by their respective teams,

 

[rt]

Here teams would collude to abuse a player and circumvent the NTC he negociated in his contract. Players would not let that happen, that would set a dangerous precedent.

I bet it’s happened ten times. But the player is given a chance to save face and waive for the team instead of dealing with it. That life when it’s 100% certain you won’t be claimed. Ottawa has shown willing to send him to the AHL. It’s aways better to be in the NHL than the AHL if you want to ever sign another NHL contract again. He’d quietly waive his NTC for Arizona. I’m 100% certain of that.

 

[Mr Positive]

I bet it’s happened ten times. But the player is given a chance to save face and waive for the team instead of dealing with it. That life when it’s 100% certain you won’t be claimed. Ottawa has shown willing to send him to the AHL. It’s aways better to be in the NHL than the AHL if you want to ever sign another NHL contract again. He’d quietly waive his NTC for Arizona. I’m 100% certain of that.

We have not seen a blatant example of this NTC circumvention: A simple situation of assets going to a team for future considerations, followed by a waiver claim of a cap dump player. The best example was that Anaheim one where they promise that didn't happen but maybe it did. But maybe it didn't. There's just no real record of this that I can see. Maybe Ottawa gets away with this if they can include the waiver claim as a small piece of a bigger trade.

 

[bert]

They don’t want Drouin obviously. He’s useless. They could waive him for all I care.

Just going by the OP, which says they’d be willing to tie an asset to rid themselves of him. Under my proposal they save 1.75mil this year and 4.5 next year.

Monahan brought the habs a protected first for Calgary to rid themselves of one year. I think Hughes would ask the same of the Sens.

That's trash absolutely not. A first lol common.

 

[hbk]

I looked into that and not only did Anaheim not receive assets to take him but this article says the league does not allow understandings like assets in exchange for claiming players

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.542698

Although who really knows? I bet if Ottawa is truly willing to give a prime young asset to ditch Zaitsev they will find a taker off the ntc, so this issue seems moot

Wasn’t the asset they received Federov? Columbus gave up Beuchemin, Tyler Wright and Marchant for Federov. Anaheim wanted out of Federov’s contract post lockout.

Fedorov Trade Brought Quality and Quantity

Mighty Duck General Manager Brian Burke made no secret that his decision last month to deal center Sergei Fedorov to the Columbus Blue Jackets was based largely on economics.

www.latimes.com

Things just ducky for Marchant

At the time, Todd Marchant was confused if not worried. He had played one full season, endured the lockout and was 18 games into the third-year of his six-year contract.

buffalonews.com

 

[rt]

We have not seen a blatant example of this NTC circumvention: A simple situation of assets going to a team for future considerations, followed by a waiver claim of a cap dump player. The best example was that Anaheim one where they promise that didn't happen but maybe it did. But maybe it didn't. There's just no real record of this that I can see. Maybe Ottawa gets away with this if they can include the waiver claim as a small piece of a bigger trade.

Because it’s not necessary. The player will always be given a choice and no player would ever choose the path you describe. They would always just waive the NTC.

 

[Mr Positive]

Because it’s not necessary. The player will always be given a choice and no player would ever choose the path you describe. They would always just waive the NTC.

I find it hard to invest in an idea where the reason there is no evidence for it is that people want to keep it hush hush. It's the same reason I only look into conspiracy theories for fun.

I still say if this was for real we would at least have insiders reporting on it, even if nothing came of it.

 

[BlueSeal]

Why not just buy him out and keep the picks?

 

[Altimus]

we need money for next years RFAs and he aint helping. we got lots coming off the books ufa wise but his would be a huge bonus. Would a 2nd and Tyler Kleven get us future considerations?

 

[Mersss]

we need money for next years RFAs and he aint helping. we got lots coming off the books ufa wise but his would be a huge bonus. Would a 2nd and Tyler Kleven get us future considerations?

No it won't
Look at Monahan who at worse was still a NHL player.
Zaitsev costs you a 1st or a top prospect easilly