Prospect Info: Senators Prospect Talk 2014-2015 Part I

[Minister of Offence]

I'm comfortable with the fact that our asst gm is not the Nostradamus.

He is educated though.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm comfortable with the fact that our asst gm is not the Nostradamus.

He is educated though.

That imagery has Photoshop potential.

 

[Ice-Tray]

it's not news. it's an opinion of the guy that drafted him. It's not a big deal, i'd just rather they say things like 'he's looking very good so far, if he keeps working at it he could have a good shot at making the league'
i don't see how saying he's the best guy outside of the nhl or one of the best guys or whatever kind of guy helps at this point.

I don't know man...

My guess is that he would have given the lesser praise if he had believed it to be true. Dorian doesn't hand out glowing praise like candy on Halloween. It would appear that he believes what he is saying, whether or not you believe in his assessment is up to you.

I don't think his goal was to help anything, but to share with the media his excitement for one of our prospects. It's candid, and I like hearing positive updates concerning guys he believes in. I still don't see the issue here. Is it that you wish he would downplay his praise so that you don't get your hopes dashed if he doesn't pan out, or that other fans on HF don't make fun of us? I don't know, I like it, makes me smile regardless.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's fair to say it would carry more weight coming from someone outside the organization, but it's also worth noting that you don't often see prospects get that level of praise. Dorian was very high on Rundblad too so who knows although I don't recall him saying Rundblad was the best defender outside the NHL even if I'm pretty sure others did.

Oddly enough it could be argued that he WAS the best defender outside of the NHL, he just isn't that great IN the NHL.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I came on here to say something that I see everyone is already talking about.

What the heck.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

yeah that's real good news! wow we got the next lidstrom. like i said, dorion gets prospect giddy easily
Tim Murray for example(ya ya my favorite) would never say that about one of his young prospects. let alone a guy like wikstrand. not saying wikstrand doesn't have a shot and isn't a good player, but...

I always think well he's our prospect. But I mean. Dorian could have put it much more lightly. It hasn't nothing to do with prospect giddy. He's a proffessional. Not a hfboards poster.

 

[Xspyrit]

The NHL hardly rewards "Sucking". It's hard enough to tank and get the top pick. As hard as it should be. There are no guarantees, and crap team should get the best picks as a general philosophy in the league. It's not like Buffalo has a decent team that has buried talent and is planing possum to get McD.

Get real

Ok so the correlation between the position in the final standings and the spot where those teams pick in the draft is all a blur?

Thanks, I'm back to reality now

However, the question stands still : How is it not rewarding failure/sucking?

EDIT : Note that I never said "tanking"

it's not news. it's an opinion of the guy that drafted him. It's not a big deal, i'd just rather they say things like 'he's looking very good so far, if he keeps working at it he could have a good shot at making the league'
i don't see how saying he's the best guy outside of the nhl or one of the best guys or whatever kind of guy helps at this point.

lol this thread has been getting out of hand in the last few pages... quite funny

Why do people take it this seriously? What's wrong with Dorion saying how high he is on one of the prospects they have 1) scouted 2) drafted 3) developed ?

We are outsiders, we follow the team that's all and those guys (players, coaches, executives, etc. try to give us their impressions FROM THE INSIDE of the game via various media outlets...

That. is. all.

I still don't see the issue here. Is it that you wish he would downplay his praise so that you don't get your hopes dashed if he doesn't pan out, or that other fans on HF don't make fun of us? I don't know, I like it, makes me smile regardless.

Yes it has been this for a while. I still don't see what's wrong with "hoping". Who cares if all your hopes don't come into fruition, just take it like a man and move on. That's life. Not only that but it's a freaking entertainment thing. It's not very important, like not at all.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Tim Murray has done this.

You definitely took dorions comments out of context.

We have boro, gryba, weircioch that didn't make the NHL until 22 or passed that...they never got this type of praise.

Like I said, no guarantees, but an organization that has developed players very well is saying they think they've got a player.

...

I agree with your position on this one, but I do recall the Sens org -- not sure who -- comparing Boro to Scott Stevens. I think it was just before his first AHL season started. IMO, that was real over the top....

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with your position on this one, but I do recall the Sens org -- not sure who -- comparing Boro to Scott Stevens. I think it was just before his first AHL season started. IMO, that was real over the top....

"We wouldn't let him off. He's made a lot of progress. I don't know if this was calculated on Ottawa's part or not, but he's getting a ton of ice time. His development is rolling along. He's coming along quite nicely. And he's a good kid. Boro was the one that (Director of Player Development and Hockey Operations) Randy Lee kept telling me all last year, 'You're gonna love this kid.' Wacey Hamilton was the other one. But Boro, he's just, he listens. He's attentive, he pays attention, and you notice. You're standing up front in the meetings, and some guys are in and out. He's in. He is all-in, and he is all ears, and he's focused and paying attention. Reminds me of Scottie Stevens when I was in New Jersey — same thing. His focus was always there. It started in the meetings, and then it just carried over into the games, and Boro's just like that."

As you can see, the reference to Stevens is about him being attentive and focused all the time. How's that over the top?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

As you can see, the reference to Stevens is about him being attentive and focused all the time. How's that over the top?

In all fairness. Boro pre 2005 is a much greater asset than boro now.
But these comments were made after 2005 so I dono disregard my comment but still. Boro in the clutch and grab and hurt eachother era would have been sweet

 

[BonkTastic]

In all fairness. Boro pre 2005 is a much greater asset than boro now.

You mean Stevens-pre-2005, right?

 

[Icelevel]

I always think well he's our prospect. But I mean. Dorian could have put it much more lightly. It hasn't nothing to do with prospect giddy. He's a proffessional. Not a hfboards poster.

i guess to me he sometimes sounds like the hf poster more than the professional. i like him, but some things he says worries me (assuming he is the front runner for next gm). This goes back years. Sorry i can't come up with specific examples.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

i guess to me he sometimes sounds like the hf poster more than the professional. i like him, but some things he says worries me (assuming he is the front runner for next gm). This goes back years. Sorry i can't come up with specific examples.

damn i was gonna ask you for some too

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You mean Stevens-pre-2005, right?

no i meant if boro was playing pre lockout (05) lockout, i can see him being a very valuable asset... much more so than he is now. hes not a terrible skater and being that strong and plus havign the ability to throw forwards around with minimal penalty calls...

 

[Micklebot]

In all fairness. Boro pre 2005 is a much greater asset than boro now.
But these comments were made after 2005 so I dono disregard my comment but still. Boro in the clutch and grab and hurt eachother era would have been sweet

The comparisson to Stevens was never about his on ice play, even if they are both physical defensive D (well Stevens was later in his career), it was about him bringing a high level of focus, both on and off the ice. KK was simply trying to say that Boro is always dialed into what's going on, and never daydreaming. If I said that Greening reminds me of Wayne Gretzky because they both love egg salad sandwiches as a pre-game meal, it's not over the top because it's not comparing them as players, but one specific trait about them that they share. So the point at which the quote was made isn't relevant as the particular trait in question doesn't really change in value based on the current style of gameplay.

 

[Micklebot]

damn i was gonna ask you for some too

Off the top of my head, he did have some comments about Rundblad when asked about problems in his game and replied with something along the line of "I don't see that" but did go on to talk about how he could be more assertive defensively.

At the time, I think he saw Rundblad as a sure fire top 4 offensive D, although you never know, he may have been downplaying area's of concern knowing that Rundblad was a strong trading chip.

One might also have some concern with him talking about how they viewed Englund as a 1st rounder, though it's too early to tell if he's right or wrong on that front.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Off the top of my head, he did have some comments about Rundblad when asked about problems in his game and replied with something along the line of "I don't see that" but did go on to talk about how he could be more assertive defensively.

At the time, I think he saw Rundblad as a sure fire top 4 offensive D, although you never know, he may have been downplaying area's of concern knowing that Rundblad was a strong trading chip.

One might also have some concern with him talking about how they viewed Englund as a 1st rounder, though it's too early to tell if he's right or wrong on that front.

Its not as if that was an unpopular opinion on rundblad though. I remember pierre mcguire coming on TGOR one morning and singing his praises.. Mcguire was also came on a year or two later and told TGOR and the rest of Ottawa to calm their expectations on silfverberg... not to say pierre is the be all end all.. but rundblad was highly regarded league wide.. and i still think his career could have been salvaged.. going to phoenix didnt help his cause whatsoever

 

[Micklebot]

Its not as if that was an unpopular opinion on rundblad though. I remember pierre mcguire coming on TGOR one morning and singing his praises.. Mcguire was also came on a year or two later and told TGOR and the rest of Ottawa to calm their expectations on silfverberg... not to say pierre is the be all end all.. but rundblad was highly regarded league wide.. and i still think his career could have been salvaged.. going to phoenix didnt help his cause whatsoever

Rundblad certainly looked very promising, but I think most recognized he had his defensive weaknesses, Dorion seemed to brush it off. I think had he acknowledged it, but kept the message positive by saying something like we don't believe it will affect his ability to be a high end contributor, there wouldn't be any concern. That said, I'm nitpicking in hindsight, at the time, I thought a little AHL/NHL coaching would shore up his game, but the reality is the offense didn't translate enough to offset the Defense, and the Defense didn't really get any better.

Again, I'm just providing what I can think of as examples of him being overly high on prospects, though I dobn't think they are all that big a deal.

 

[BondraTime]

It is only our Swedish prospects who are over-hyped, mainly because the vast majority don't actually get to watch them.

Although I do believe Dorian oversells many of our prospects, he is a very, very good scout. I will take this opinion on Wikstrand with a grain of salt, as I do not for a second believe he is the best D outside of the NHL, but Dorian saying that leads me to believe he is a pro prospect.

 

[Micklebot]

It is only our Swedish prospects who are over-hyped, mainly because the vast majority don't actually get to watch them.

Although I do believe Dorian oversells many of our prospects, he is a very, very good scout. I will take this opinion on Wikstrand with a grain of salt, as I do not for a second believe he is the best D outside of the NHL, but Dorian saying that leads me to believe he is a pro prospect.

To be fare, I don't think he ever said he was the best, rather one of the best.

The way I read it is he considers Wikstrand NHL ready, which isn't too much of a surprise as he's 21 and has been playing pro hockey for 3-4 years now. It also leads me to believe that according to Dorian, Wikstrand is ahead of Claesson, that or we have two of the best defenders not in the NHL....

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Whats the plan with Wikstrand - finish the year in Sweden and then over to North America next year?

Also the 'best dman outside of NA' comment is a little too rundbladesque for my liking

 

[Micklebot]

Whats the plan with Wikstrand - finish the year in Sweden and then over to North America next year?

Also the 'best dman outside of NA' comment is a little too rundbladesque for my liking

Good thing he said one of the best, and not the best.

Here's the actual quote, since I don't think it's been posted in full;

Also, both Randy Lee and myself will be going to Europe the first week of December to see our three European prospects: Marcus Hogberg; probably one of best defencemen outside the NHL, Mikael Wikstrand; and also our second round pick, who was also our first pick (last summer), Andreas Englund.â€

It's important to note that this isn't saying he will probably be one of the best defenders once over to the NHL; this is a 21 year old prospect, and should be stepping in in as a close to finished product when he arrives. It's also not clear how many people he is including in the group of best defencemen outside the NHL. Is is top three, top 5, top 10, top 20? If all he's saying is that he's among the top 20 most NHL ready defensemen not currently playing in the NHL, is that being overly optimistic?

I imagine the goal is to get him over to NA after this season, and one of him or Claesson to take over Phillips spot when he likely retires in two years.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Good thing he said one of the best, and not the best.

Here's the actual quote, since I don't think it's been posted in full;

It's important to note that this isn't saying he will probably be one of the best defenders once over to the NHL; this is a 21 year old prospect, and should be stepping in in as a close to finished product when he arrives. It's also not clear how many people he is including in the group of best defencemen outside the NHL. Is is top three, top 5, top 10, top 20? If all he's saying is that he's among the top 20 most NHL ready defensemen not currently playing in the NHL, is that being overly optimistic?

I imagine the goal is to get him over to NA after this season, and one of him or Claesson to take over Phillips spot when he likely retires in two years.

Semantics shmemantics. Fact remains that 'one of the best' outside of NA doesn't really mean much. It's just a weird categorization that gets thrown around. Like for years they said Brayden Schenn was the best player outside of NHL. 5 years later he's finally starting to be a difference maker.

I'm looking forward to seeing his game in the AHL.

 

[Micklebot]

Semantics shmemantics. Fact remains that 'one of the best' outside of NA doesn't really mean much. It's just a weird categorization that gets thrown around. Like for years they said Brayden Schenn was the best player outside of NHL. 5 years later he's finally starting to be a difference maker.

I'm looking forward to seeing his game in the AHL.

I think people have too high of expectations for what best player not in the NHL means.

The truth is, if he was a sure fire difference maker (B Schenn or whoever you want to use as an example) he'd have already been in the NHL.

Honestly, my hope is he can come in and play at a similar level to what Danny Dekeyser did when he first arrived in Detroit, though Dekeyser is a better skater from what I've seen.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I agree with your position on this one, but I do recall the Sens org -- not sure who -- comparing Boro to Scott Stevens. I think it was just before his first AHL season started. IMO, that was real over the top....

Kurt kleinendorst compared some
Of his personality traits to Stevens. Not his talent.

Context important. After all a kid going from tier 2 to the NHL after a 5th round draft selection takes great character.

But ya, I remember. This why comparisons can be stupid, because some people take them
Out of context.