Confirmed with Link: Senators are for sale - and it’s a Gong Show

[Golden_Jet]

For sure . It is going to be expensive.

A big part of the contamination are buried oil tanks which then leak. A lot of times, they start digging and then have to chase it to get it all out. I had one of my properties where it was 100k to remediate and it turned into almost 400k…they just kept finding it

Agree,
I’m not sure how the remediation would work , now that’s the parcels of land available are all subdivided. I would assume the whole thing would need to be cleaned, not parcel by parcel,
If parcel by parcel , there would be some soil instability in neighbouring parcels.

Numbers all over the place on cleanup
From 2016

LeBreton Flats clean up could cost up to $300 million

Developers who win the bid to redevelop LeBreton Flats could be looking at fees of up to $300 million dollars to clean up the site, sources tell CTV Ottawa.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

From 2018

INSIGHT: Cleaning dirty soil is job No. 1 at LeBreton Flats

By Alison Trenton The soil beneath the surface of NCC-owned LeBreton Flats is the first issue the RendezVous LeBreton Gr...

capitalcurrent.ca

 

[Beech]

Agree,
I’m not sure how the remediation would work , now that’s the parcels of land available are all subdivided. I would assume the whole thing would need to be cleaned, not parcel by parcel,
If parcel by parcel , there would be some soil instability in neighbouring parcels.

Numbers all over the place on cleanup
From 2016

LeBreton Flats clean up could cost up to $300 million

Developers who win the bid to redevelop LeBreton Flats could be looking at fees of up to $300 million dollars to clean up the site, sources tell CTV Ottawa.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

From 2018

INSIGHT: Cleaning dirty soil is job No. 1 at LeBreton Flats

By Alison Trenton The soil beneath the surface of NCC-owned LeBreton Flats is the first issue the RendezVous LeBreton Gr...

capitalcurrent.ca

per the second article. ~ 5.7 ha was estimated to be 110,000 M^3. that is ~ 2 M deep
at 21 ha and 2 M. you get 420,000 m^3 and at $500/M^3. You are at $200 plus million.

 

[Golden_Jet]

per the second article. ~ 5.7 ha was estimated to be 110,000 M^3. that is ~ 2 M deep
at 21 ha and 2 M. you get 420,000 m^3 and at $500/M^3. You are at $200 plus million.

I guess it depends how deep the chemicals leached into the ground.
And if the remediation is done all at once or in piece meal as parcels sold off.

 

[Beech]

I guess it depends how deep the chemicals leached into the ground.
And if the remediation is done all at once or in piece meal as parcels sold off.

Is that area not where Bluesfest is held? Or is that over more (towards Dtown)?

you would think, the combination of beer, puke and piss would have rendered the soil sterile.

 

[Larionov]

Meh - we heard a lot of this talk before Lansdowne was built about how there were going to be massive soil remediation costs. It turned out to be a big wet firecracker...

 

[Golden_Jet]

Meh - we heard a lot of this talk before Lansdowne was built about how there were going to be massive soil remediation costs. It turned out to be a big wet firecracker...

There wasn’t the chemical industrial wasteland at Landsdowne that there is at LeBreton, in the history of the 2 sites.

 

[Larionov]

There wasn’t the chemical industrial wasteland at Landsdowne that there is at LeBreton, in the history of the 2 sites.

There also hasn't been any industrial activity at LeBreton in over 60 years. We'll see, but I don't think it's going to be a much of an issue...

 

[Golden_Jet]

There also hasn't been any industrial activity at LeBreton in over 60 years. We'll see, but I don't think it's going to be a much of an issue...

Estimates 5-7 years ago was 170-310 million and would take a year and a half.

 

[Micklebot]

Estimates 5-7 years ago was 170-310 million and would take a year and a half.

That estimate was for a 53 acres parcel of land though, the current lease is what, 6 acres for the arena?

 

[Beech]

That estimate was for a 53 acres parcel of land though, the current lease is what, 6 acres for the arena?

Mick.

I believe 6 ha, not acres.

the CTC is 6 ha.

you are talking 2.5 times more. At ~$500/M^3 of soil..it is from 70 m for 6 ha to 300 M for 21 ha (21 Acres)..

 

[Golden_Jet]

That estimate was for a 53 acres parcel of land though, the current lease is what, 6 acres for the arena?

Correct, but is it likely the remiadiation is done in 4-6 acre chunks, ?not sure how that would work.

What do you tell the company doing it, only dig to this red painted line on the ground. If done like that then there will be some wall supporting needed as well.

Then when rink opens, might not be able to get to front door if another chunk is now removed in front of rink.

 

[Micklebot]

Correct, but is it likely the remiadiation is done in 4-6 acre chunks, ?not sure how that would work.

What do you tell the company doing it, only dig to this red painted line on the ground. If done like that then there will be some wall supporting needed as well.

Then when rink opens, might not be able to get to front door if another chunk is now removed in front of rink.

Well, you don't remediate 53 acres all at once, the company hired works it's way through it, and you don't pay for all 53 acres of soil remediation when only 6 is your responsibility. It's fair to point out it's not a linear relationship between time and amount of land to clean up, but my point was simply that estimates for the entire original development aren't directly transferable to the much smaller new development, particularly the cost.

I'm really not following what you're saying in the last paragraph, you think that remidiation will still be ongoing after the rink is built? If you think it will be a year and a half to remidiate the entire 53 acres from the original development, then they should have no issues getting any critical areas between the location of the arena and transit paths while the area undergoes construction.

Mick.

I believe 6 ha, not acres.

the CTC is 6 ha.

you are talking 2.5 times more. At ~$500/M^3 of soil..it is from 70 m for 6 ha to 300 M for 21 ha (21 Acres)..

No, the site for the arena is 6.3 acres,

GARRIOCH: NCC confident it will have a lease for LeBreton Flats in place with Senators new owner by fall

The sale of the Ottawa Senators hasn't halted the pursuit of a new downtown arena.

ottawasun.com

The CTC site is mostly parking lot, there won't be 5000 parking spots at LeBreton

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Golden_Jet]

Well, you don't remediate 53 acres all at once, the company hired works it's way through it, and you don't pay for all 53 acres of soil remediation when only 6 is your responsibility. It's fair to point out it's not a linear relationship between time and amount of land to clean up, but my point was simply that estimates for the entire original development aren't directly transferable to the much smaller new development, particularly the cost.

I'm really not following what you're saying in the last paragraph, you think that remidiation will still be ongoing after the rink is built? If you think it will be a year and a half to remidiate the entire 53 acres from the original development, then they should have no issues getting any critical areas between the location of the arena and transit paths while the area undergoes construction.




No, the site for the arena is 6.3 acres,

GARRIOCH: NCC confident it will have a lease for LeBreton Flats in place with Senators new owner by fall

The sale of the Ottawa Senators hasn't halted the pursuit of a new downtown arena.

ottawasun.com

The CTC site is mostly parking lot, there won't be 5000 parking spots at LeBreton

Correct - Rendezvous plan had 500 spots on a bigger parcel of land.

Ya Daly mentioned that on McCowan podcast. And you hear Shannon in the background go hmmm.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The NHL is not going to commit itself to the NCC prior to a sale taking place.

It makes a lot of sense for the NHL to say "you know what? We are going to keep our options open. See ya in a bit, after we find out who the new owners are"

 

[Beech]

Well, you don't remediate 53 acres all at once, the company hired works it's way through it, and you don't pay for all 53 acres of soil remediation when only 6 is your responsibility. It's fair to point out it's not a linear relationship between time and amount of land to clean up, but my point was simply that estimates for the entire original development aren't directly transferable to the much smaller new development, particularly the cost.

I'm really not following what you're saying in the last paragraph, you think that remidiation will still be ongoing after the rink is built? If you think it will be a year and a half to remidiate the entire 53 acres from the original development, then they should have no issues getting any critical areas between the location of the arena and transit paths while the area undergoes construction.




No, the site for the arena is 6.3 acres,

GARRIOCH: NCC confident it will have a lease for LeBreton Flats in place with Senators new owner by fall

The sale of the Ottawa Senators hasn't halted the pursuit of a new downtown arena.

ottawasun.com

The CTC site is mostly parking lot, there won't be 5000 parking spots at LeBreton

I guess.

Strange 6 ha is 60,000 M^2 or ~ 270 x 220. An arena is ~ 130 x 110 M (wall to wall) , it leaves about 140 x 110 as a perimeter. Not as much as you think. ~ 70 on the long side and 55 on the short.

6.3 acres is 2.55 ha = 25500 m^2 ~ 190 x 134 M.. it doesn't leave all that much perimeter space!!! virtually no space for a road around the building

 

[starling]

This area is 6 acres. That's where the arena will be.
You can't move LRT and Albert street.
There is no road around the building lol.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess.

Strange 6 ha is 60,000 M^2 or ~ 270 x 220. An arena is ~ 130 x 110 M (wall to wall) , it leaves about 140 x 110 as a perimeter. Not as much as you think. ~ 70 on the long side and 55 on the short.

6.3 acres is 2.55 ha = 25500 m^2 ~ 190 x 134 M.. it doesn't leave all that much perimeter space!!! virtually no space for a road around the building

Ya I feel like new owners might try and purchase more, depending on what their plan is for more if NCC agrees.

 

[Tuna99]

There also hasn't been any industrial activity at LeBreton in over 60 years. We'll see, but I don't think it's going to be a much of an issue...

Going to have to dig so deep to put that stadium in it’ll all be part of the cost - city Will pick up $50 million clean up tab is my guess and no delays in getting Ryan Reynolds his arena

 

[Mingus Dew]

For sure . It is going to be expensive.

A big part of the contamination are buried oil tanks which then leak. A lot of times, they start digging and then have to chase it to get it all out. I had one of my properties where it was 100k to remediate and it turned into almost 400k…they just kept finding it

Brutal. USTs are a monstrous pain in the ass.

Usually shows up on a Phase I but not always. Might need invasive testing to discover it.

I'm also assuming there will be ongoing monitoring obligations following remediation? That's pricey and cumbersome as well.

There also hasn't been any industrial activity at LeBreton in over 60 years. We'll see, but I don't think it's going to be a much of an issue...

They won't know until they get in there and take borings (has that already happened)?

If the contamination was really bad 60 years ago and then the land sat idle it's still going to be bad today.

 

[GCK]

Brutal. USTs are a monstrous pain in the ass.

Usually shows up on a Phase I but not always. Might need invasive testing to discover it.

I'm also assuming there will be ongoing monitoring obligations following remediation? That's pricey and cumbersome as well.



They won't know until they get in there and take borings (has that already happened)?

If the contamination was really bad 60 years ago and then the land sat idle it's still going to be bad today.

I believe they have bored samples from several areas of the flats.

 

[Crosside]

This summer will have construction in parking lot 5 and 9 to help facilitate traffic

 

[Golden_Jet]

This summer will have construction in parking lot 5 and 9 to help facilitate traffic

No idea what you’re trying to say, facilitate what traffic.

 

[Crosside]

No idea what you’re trying to say, facilitate what traffic.

To help car leaving after the game

 

[Golden_Jet]

To help car leaving after the game

Ahh ok