Post-Game Talk: Senators 3 Leafs 2

[Alamo Leafer]

Teams that have played 2 games so far.

PIT 1-0-1, +3gdiff
TOR 1-1-0, +0gdiff (PANAC!!!)
SEA 1-1-0, +0gdiff
TBL 1-1-0, -3gdiff
VGK 1-1-0, -3gdiff
NYR 0-1-1, -5gdiff
MTL 0-2-0, -5gdiff

It's not the result, it's the same old sad performance from this bunch specially coming out of the gate that is an embarrassment.
As far as I'm concerned even the habs result is a loss for this team.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Thanks for the kind words I have my favorites but I can be objective. Agreed on the Marner stuff. Dubas looks really smart on the Nylander contract but it's completely wiped out by the Marner contract.

Welcome aboard. You don't have to "HATE" Dubas (or Keefe) to be very critical of decision's made. You'll be accused of hating them. You'll be accused of hating the Leafs. You'll be asked to follow the Seattle Kraken. But deep down, in you heart of hearts, you'll know you're correct.

 

[ottomaddox]

The old Wilson Leafs won the odd game on Hustle and no talent.

The Leafs just need to bring back Wilson.

 

[Apex Predator]

Thats why I like when you comment. Fairly level headed stickty. I will say this and I've said it all offseason.... the first person to leave needs to be mitch (especially if he plays the way he is). That contract and his level of play just don't match. If dubas started to be a bit more ruthless when it came to his players it would hold him in good stead.

Depending how this season plays out we might look back and say when Mitch held out that was the time to trade him. Hindsight is 20/20 and I’m sure everyone has different opinions on when the right time was to make this move.

 

[Apex Predator]

It's not the result, it's the same old sad performance from this bunch specially coming out of the gate that is an embarrassment.
As far as I'm concerned even the habs result is a loss for this team.

This is my concern too. It sucks that everyone gets mad at people that are negative about the team but this is concerning. We’ve been down this road and we know how it plays out. I’m afraid we are going to waste another season with this core and get the same results.

you want to develop good habits and they seem to have the same habits again. They never broke those habits in previous years so I’m worried they won’t again this year.

 

[Kalaish26]

What games were you watching? JT was great in both games. Worked hard and nearly created numerous goals.

I'm not doubting his effort, but at some point you got to start producing. And again I know it very early as we are only 2 games in, but we saw a similar pattern last year where he was getting a lot of chances, but was not capitalizing as much. All I'm saying is with Matthews out, you just wish to get a little more production from your other star centre and Marner. He's not getting paid $11 million to nearly score goals, he's getting paid to score goals.

 

[justashadowof]

Why do people think that Liljegren is the answer?

It's like saying Amadio is the answer or Brooks was the answer.

Liljegren who still hasn't played an NHL game this season is the answer?

Liljegren will think of a better play than Holl on his way back to the center ice faceoff.

 

[ER89]

Depending how this season plays out we might look back and say when Mitch held out that was the time to trade him. Hindsight is 20/20 and I’m sure everyone has different opinions on when the right time was to make this move.

I thought we should have traded him then as well. That contract was absolutely shit from day 1.

 

[Fogelhund]

Slow start, defensive breakdowns, making the opponents goalie look good. It's almost like I've heard that story before.

 

[Lauro]

I don't cee that much about a loss in october, but I don't like that they don't rotate some players in and out in october, especially on a back to back.

 

[VanW27]

I don't cee that much about a loss in october, but I don't like that they don't rotate some players in and out in october, especially on a back to back.

This, last year we couldn't rotate guys because of the cap issues. Then later when we could we didn't.

This year we have a little more flexibility but once Mikheyev is back most of it is gone, rotate some guys in. It's a back-to-back for the first 2 games of the season, Amadio and Simmonds were both terrible in game 1, why the hell wouldn't you put Semyonov in?

I get the defense more since the bottom pair was good in game 1, but still why? Just put Lily in, give him a chance. The kid is going to spend the year in the pressbox until there's a rash of injuries and he forced onto the second pair in a game 7, and they'll wonder why he couldn't handle it. Someone, Holl?, was even questionable due to a minor injury.

 

[egd27]

I don't cee that much about a loss in october, but I don't like that they don't rotate some players in and out in october, especially on a back to back.

Jays fans didn't care much about a loss in April either.....just sayin

 

[yubbers]

This is my concern too. It sucks that everyone gets mad at people that are negative about the team but this is concerning. We’ve been down this road and we know how it plays out. I’m afraid we are going to waste another season with this core and get the same results.

you want to develop good habits and they same to have the same habits again. They never broke those habits in previous years so I’m worried they won’t again this year.

Until management is gone it won't change. The culture Shanny and Dubas created is Muskoka 5esque. We need a culture change.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Depending how this season plays out we might look back and say when Mitch held out that was the time to trade him. Hindsight is 20/20 and I’m sure everyone has different opinions on when the right time was to make this move.

This summer was a great time IMO.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I used to really dislike Nylander because of how much he floated. This went back to his days with the Marlies. I used to go to a lot of Marlies games so I got to see him float in person, including in the playoffs, and it always bugged me. I wanted him traded, and traded immediately. But in the playoffs last year he changed my mind. He was engaged, and he cared. It was obvious. If only some of his teammates cared as much and gave as much effort.

I've always been a big Marner supporter and thought that, if he was developed properly, he had the potential to be the next Gilmour. But that has changed. He isn't as engaged as he should be, too often plays soft, and he flat out disappears in the playoffs. I never thought I'd say it, but they need to trade him - and they need to do it before they hit the 25 game point of this season.

I was the eternal optimist when it came to the Leafs. I always believed, I always had hope. But last year's playoff exit just did me in. I've finally had enough, and am having a tough time caring about this season. I want to, but I just cannot invest emotionally. Because of that, I haven't been paying much attention to hockey at all so I have no idea who potential trade partners could be - who has the need, the cap space, and the assets for a player like Marner. But they have to figure it out and swing a deal with any team that fits the bill. And no, Eichel is not an appropriate return due to his injury issues.

They also need to dump Dubas and Keefe, but that is another story.

I agree with you regarding Nylander and Marner. I was a huge Marner fan during his ELC. He seemed to be the quintessential Leaf, home boy with skill who gave it his all on the ice. He has definitely changed since his new contract. Yeah, he picked up a ton of points playing with Matthews, but now you are seeing that without him, he cannot drive a line. His attitude has worsened from his lackadaiscal play on the ice to his off-ice demeanour. I agree that for competitive salary structure and balance on the team, he is the first that should go. This is regardless of how many points he picks up, because you know that playing with Matthews, and with his innate skill, that there will be enough games without intensity from the opposition, where he will be able to pickup a boatload of points.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

highest CF% of 57.14%, highest FF% of 63.64%, highest SF% of 66.67%, highest xGF% of 79.05%, highest SCF% of 64.29%, highest HDCF% of 100%

that's not just on defense but the entire team

he dominated on both sides of the puck

Sandin was the least of our problems last night. That Laurel and Hardy act pulled by Muzzin and Holl was disappointing. Muzzin will be better, Holl I am not sure.

 

[Menzinger]

Agreed. Ritchie isn't great but some just wanted him because he's big.

I think we have to accept he's not going to drive play, but I think once Matthews and Marner are going full tilt he'll still end up a decent complimentary piece for the unit. At that point all he'll need to do is get in front of the net and screen/be Matthews' garbage man for rebounds

 

[ACC1224]

Slow start, defensive breakdowns, making the opponents goalie look good. It's almost like I've heard that story before.

Experts tell us that's not a thing though and they are actually dominant right from puck drop.
Experts also tell us that the Muzzin/Holl pair are the elitest of the elite.
Think we need new experts.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Slow start, defensive breakdowns, making the opponents goalie look good. It's almost like I've heard that story before.

I got told by a Mod that games are 60 mins long, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Blowfish]

What's scary is after going up 3 zip with pace speed skill the Sens leaned on defensive formation...The Sens looked much faster and creative in the first. They were protecting the lead. The leafs looked real bad in the first. Couldn't keep up.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Just gonna leave this here. Pretty useful and convenient:

https://www.hockeystatcards.com/single-game-card/13011

Pretty well confirms the eye test. Anyone claiming Marner had a good game but just unlucky should have a good look at the stats and book an optometrist appointment.

 

[myleafs]

Just gonna leave this here. Pretty useful and convenient:

https://www.hockeystatcards.com/single-game-card/13011

The ratings match up quite nicely with how I saw the game. Leafs game was sloppy AF and we deserved what we got. I don't see any team cohesion at this point and unfortunately we played with all the intensity of game 7 last yr. Marner looks pedestrian without 34 so far. All in all a very uninspiring start to the season for a team that should be out to prove something. It's early but so far this team looks worse than last year.

 

[Havoc]

Engvall looks to be a 2 period wonder right now.

Really costing us when he's out there since the 3rd period of the Habs game. He can't be over 10 mins a game if he's going to play like this.

Don't know what his problem is. He perfects his third line role, wins everyone back with it, then ditches it to try to become Nylander-lite. It's the same story everyyyyyyyyyyyy year.

With the worst 4th line in the league we can't even demote him there. Who we going to move up, Simmonds/Amadio?


Otherwise this is a Leafs win without the bonehead plays of Engvall, Muzzin/Holl and Kase. So this loss is easy to shake off for me. Muzzin will figure it out, Kase should figure it out he's a good 2 way player and Engvall will be demoted once Matthews is back (I think? Hopefully).

 

[ULF_55]

Just watched the condense game on NHL.com.

Looks like both/all goalies made some good saves. I can't place blame for any of the goals.

Kicking motion goal, ... he slid his skate forward to direct the puck into the net. It did not appear he moved his skate forward into the puck. I think that must be their criteria.

The double deflection goal, nothing a goaltender can do in some cases.

Looks like Nylander had a few good chances before his goal.

Maybe Spezza can't play 17 minutes a night, but maybe he should be given some time on the top 2 lines. Nylander can play all 3 forward positions.

Didn't see enough to know if the Holl and Muzzin pairing were the same as game 1. With the no crosschecking rules in place, will it come down to nimbleness on defense rather than brute? Size and strength will always be a positive when boxing out, but kind of like when McCabe lost his can-opener, rule changes can impact a players effectiveness.

 

[ULF_55]

The ratings match up quite nicely with how I saw the game. Leafs game was sloppy AF and we deserved what we got. I don't see any team cohesion at this point and unfortunately we played with all the intensity of game 7 last yr. Marner looks pedestrian without 34 so far. All in all a very uninspiring start to the season for a team that should be out to prove something. It's early but so far this team looks worse than last year.

Well, according to that chart Ritchie is the one that should be demoted to the 4th. line.

Nylander and Sandin have been best Leafs this season.

Spezza has to be promoted. I'd go with this until he needs a break. I think his skating still looks very good.

Muzzin and Holl need to get it together.