Post-Game Talk: Sen-d them home - Jets 2, Senators 5

[surixon]

Laine has shown in the past he can be an elite scorer, which arguably is the ultimate objective. But he’s not shown to be an elite player. He can’t drive his line, he can’t create turnovers. He doesn’t have elite speed, he doesn’t win board battles, etc. Scheifele did all that (albeit not lately).

He most certainly didn't show that consistently until the last half of his third year. I think some people forget how much of a project he was back then, he couldn't stay on his feet, got consistently muscled off pucks. It wasn't until his third year when he was 22 that he really started to show the ability to physically dominate other players and really drive a first line.

I don't think you will find many people who will disagree with the notion that Laine doesn't have areas to improve in his game but his weaknesses in a lot of ways are the same as Marks at the same age. I have no doubt by the time he is 22 and near his physical prime that he will be much stronger on the puck and will be able to drive his own line.

 

[MoreMorrissey]

Laine has shown in the past he can be an elite scorer, which arguably is the ultimate objective. But he’s not shown to be an elite player. He can’t drive his line, he can’t create turnovers. He doesn’t have elite speed, he doesn’t win board battles, etc. Scheifele did all that (albeit not lately).

Not at 20 years old he didn't

 

[Larabee]

You always gotta look to the future in this game.. Would u trade 30 something buff if it means 8 would stick around? Would you trade 18 if you had a younger 2 center? Would u move wheeler if you could get the younger better overall stone? You'd ve dumb not 2.

Wheeler brings back a ton as does buff.

Be crazy not to think about it. Firing the coach is the only other option.. Its actually the one that would help the most imo as its been a few years and the same flaws maurice had years ago are still there .

Another issue is the expansion draft in 2020. With Wheeler’s NTC he would be protected and someone like Connor, Ehlers or Lowry will be exposed. Is it worth it to lose a young player for an aging player with deteriorating skills ?

 

[Polar Vortex]

Tomorrow's GDT could be must see tv if things don't go right for the Jets

I’d pay for a subscription for it

 

[Larabee]

Not at 20 years old he didn't

Agreed. But he showed he could before his second contract. Laine still needs to do that.

 

[winnipegger]

Ottawa is terrible...Ottawa beat the Jets....what am I to make of this. Mostly goalie's fault.

As if taking Laine off PP 1 is going to help anything. He actually plays well on the PP. He distributes the puck well because he has time to look around. Problem is 5v5 for Laine. He always gets boxed in too quickly.

I don't see what there is to lose by trying Scheifele with a different RW. Blake Wheeler is a dominant player and he can lift Little line as well.

 

[ffh]

0-2 to start 10 of next 15 on road and based on the way they have played this season good chance they will be closer to wild card then 1st when the 15 games are done.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up Scheifele's deal and comparing him to our other young players.... Do you not think Scheifele wouldn't have signed for more if he had a resume that supported it?

Scheifele's first three years:

34 points, 49 points and 61 points.

Laine's

64 points and 70 points and has 36 so far this year. He is also going to have three straight years of over 30 goals.

Laine's performance before his second contract kicks the crap out of Scheifele's. Laine also did it at younger age. Had we actually bridged Scheifele because he hadn't proven over a significant amount of time he was an elite player we would be paying him 10 million a year right now. Mark wasn't signed to an elite player deal as he had only showed about half a season of elite play. Laine has shown about 2 and a quarter year of it. He will and deserves to get more as his resume is pretty darn amazing for his age. There are very few who have accomplished as much as he has at this stage of their careers.

Okay, that’s fine but if he’s the better player he deserves more criticism when the team underproduces. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is a better player and deserves more money and should play a bigger part in whether the Jets win or lose therefore when the team is losing deserves more criticism or he is a lesser player so we should be less hard on him.
Also comparing Connor to Laine is a matchstick argument. Connor has less potential so he is doing a better job living up to that potential. Therefore is less disappointing to see him struggle. He also won’t turn around and demand 8.5-9 million. He also does not cost us as much in opportunity costs 17th vs 2nd (draft place) also in that Laine will bring back a lot more value which would be worth it if Laine does not reach said potential.

 

[Duke749]

Laine has shown in the past he can be an elite scorer, which arguably is the ultimate objective. But he’s not shown to be an elite player. He can’t drive his line, he can’t create turnovers. He doesn’t have elite speed, he doesn’t win board battles, etc. Scheifele did all that (albeit not lately).

Scheifele didn’t do shit at 20.

 

[bustamente]

I’d pay for a subscription for it

Don't jump the gun because this place will burn down in the PGT if the Jets lose

 

[bustamente]

Scheifele didn’t do **** at 20.

Yes he did he cleaned the ice and was very good at it.

 

[wabagee]

Ottawa is terrible...Ottawa beat the Jets....what am I to make of this. Mostly goalie's fault.

As if taking Laine off PP 1 is going to help anything. He actually plays well on the PP. He distributes the puck well because he has time to look around. Problem is 5v5 for Laine. He always gets boxed in too quickly.

I don't see what there is to lose by trying Scheifele with a different RW. Blake Wheeler is a dominant player and he can lift Little line as well.

The problem is they are boxing in Wheeler and he is tired and useless. A Bad game like this was a perfect time to try something new but our coach is garbage on the fly.

 

[Larabee]

Scheifele didn’t do **** at 20.

No he didn’t. And he wasn’t paid the big bucks until he proved he could.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

No he didn’t. And he wasn’t paid the big bucks until he proved he could.

He proved it for maybe half a season

 

[bustamente]

I think people are having trouble remembering the consternation with Chef and his game when he first got here his game did not develop overnight and in some instances still needs improving in some area's today, 20 years Laine will be a totally different player in a few years .............at least that the plan.

 

[surixon]

Okay, that’s fine but if he’s the better player he deserves more criticism when the team underproduces. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is a better player and deserves more money and should play a bigger part in whether the Jets win or lose therefore when the team is losing deserves more criticism or he is a lesser player so we should be less hard on him.
Also comparing Connor to Laine is a matchstick argument. Connor has less potential so he is doing a better job living up to that potential. Therefore is less disappointing to see him struggle. He also won’t turn around and demand 8.5-9 million. He also does not cost us as much in opportunity costs 17th vs 2nd (draft place) also in that Laine will bring back a lot more value which would be worth it if Laine does not reach said potential.

I have no issue with criticizing him when his play warrants it. Also people were all over Mark his first couple of seasons here as well, and we will be all over the next skilled player who under performs. Its what happens here.

Has Connor done a better job at it? He has been gifted the cushiest assignment most of his young career playing with Scheifele and Wheeler and is only tracking as a 65 point player this year. Connor has many of the same flaws, poor in his end and can't drive a line offensively. He struggles anytime he is taken away from them. Conner is actually tracking behind Ehlers at the same stage despite getting better support and will likely demand and get more then Ehlers did. Also just because Scheifele didn't have the same resume at the same age doesn't mean he shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He developed into an elite player after signing his deal and has assumed a leadership role on the team. He should be held to a higher standard given his performance the last few years and his position in the room. ditto for Blake.

 

[GNP]

I think people are having trouble remembering the consternation with Chef and his game when he first got here his game did not develop overnight and in some instances still needs improving in some area's today, 20 years Laine will be a totally different player in a few years .............at least that the plan.

________________________________________________________

Although this post could be very true -- I'd be very worried about signing Laine long term --for big bucs right now, based on his current play. I really like to see a 3 year bridge done on him at about $ 5.5 to 6 mil -tops, and let him prove his worth.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I have no issue with criticizing him when his play warrants it. Also people were all over Mark his first couple of seasons here as well, and we will be all over the next skilled player who under performs. Its what happens here.

Has Connor done a better job at it? He has been gifted the cushiest assignment most of his young career playing with Scheifele and Wheeler and is only tracking as a 65 point player this year. Connor has many of the same flaws, poor in his end and can't drive a line offensively. He struggles anytime he is taken away from them. Conner is actually tracking behind Ehlers at the same stage despite getting better support and will likely demand and get more then Ehlers did. Also just because Scheifele didn't have the same resume at the same age doesn't mean he shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He developed into an elite player after signing his deal and has assumed a leadership role on the team. He should be held to a higher standard given his performance the last few years and his position in the room. ditto for Blake.

He has same flaws but less is expected so Connor can't be held to same standards as Laine. He drove the 2nd line more than Laine.
7mil is the same as Ehlers but cap has gone up.
How does he have better supports than Ehlers when he's played with the same players. If anything he's had less support as Ehlers got to boost his numbers before Laine slumped like this.
So you don't want to pay Schiefle as much but you expect more? You'd be a lousy boss. Salary should meet expectations.

 

[Larabee]

He proved it for maybe half a season

If Laine could drive his line, protect the puck and battle in the corners for a half a season I’d have no worries giving him a big contract that a 40 goal scorer deserves.

 

[Deedog99]

Would anybody do Tkachuk for Laine right now?

 

[surixon]

He has same flaws but less is expected so Connor can't be held to same standards as Laine. He drove the 2nd line more than Laine.
7mil is the same as Ehlers but cap has gone up.
How does he have better supports than Ehlers when he's played with the same players. If anything he's had less support as Ehlers got to boost his numbers before Laine slumped like this.
So you don't want to pay Schiefle as much but you expect more? You'd be a lousy boss. Salary should meet expectations.

Ehlers has not gotten first pp time really his whole career whereas Connor got significant time there last year prior to PS and has been a fixture there this season. Ehlers also eleveated the top line when he played with them whereas Conner pulls them down from a possesion stand point. Also Ehlers scored 60 points last year playing entirely on the second line and second PP unit. Ehlers doesn't need elite talent to produce and drive play which is why he is a superior player.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Ehlers has not gotten first pp time really his whole career whereas Connor got significant time there last year prior to PS and has been a fixture there this season. Ehlers also eleveated the top line when he played with them whereas Conner pulls them down from a possesion stand point. Also Ehlers scored 60 points last year playing entirely on the second line and second PP unit. Ehlers doesn't need elite talent to produce and drive play which is why he is a superior player.

So let's pay Ehlers more. That does not boost Laine's value.
Also Ehlers gets to shoot more on the 2nd pp than he'd get to shoot on 1 pp. On the 2nd pp it's not Wheeler to Laine. He essentially gets to be a big fish in a small fish tank on the 2nd pp.

 

[Larabee]

Would anybody do Tkachuk for Laine right now?

Probably not. I’d like to see how Laine develops in the next two years.

 

[Weezeric]

This hatred of Blake Wheeler is getting out of hand.

Everyone knows he has the highest 5v5 p/60 of any Jet over 300 mins this season right? And he’s leading the entire flipping league in primary A/60 on the powerplay. On pace for nearly 100 points. What’s a guy gotta do?

 

[tntkid]

Tomorrow's GDT could be must see tv if things don't go right for the Jets

Tomorrow's PGT after a potential Jets loss to Buffalo will be very toxic.