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Sell me on Analytics... then sell me on ours

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Yeah, dubas needs to go but I don't buy into analytics, I buy into performance and in playoffs - they underperformed.

Soft mentality, not enough grinders... and when you got two starts who don't SHOW up, you've got a PROBLEMO.

time to unload imho! (This is not a Tampa situation, we need help)
 
Giuseppe Sallo said:
Soft mentality, not enough grinders... and when you got two starts who don't SHOW up, you've got a PROBLEMO.
Click to expand...

- "dont start on time"
- "ease up during the power play"
- "refuse to engage physically in the playoffs"

The Leafs organization is an entitled Country Club. We complain because we aren't members. Meanwhile the members are getting paid.
 
AllDay28 said:
oh so you don’t win any bets and you don’t know what you’re talking about. Gotcha.

your eyes so good. Can’t actually profit off them tho
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I will bet the Leafs will never win a cup as long as Keefe is their head coach.

I will also bet that Keefe will never win a cup as head coach with any other team.
 
Giuseppe Sallo said:
Yeah, dubas needs to go but I don't buy into analytics, I buy into performance and in playoffs - they underperformed.

Soft mentality, not enough grinders... and when you got two starts who don't SHOW up, you've got a PROBLEMO.

time to unload imho! (This is not a Tampa situation, we need help)
Click to expand...

so you probably don’t want McDavid either. Makes sense

mcdavid with his 8 hits in 4 games. Talk about grit
 
Donnie740 said:
I will bet the Leafs will never win a cup as long as Keefe is their head coach.

I will also bet that Keefe will never win a cup as head coach with any other team.
Click to expand...

Oh man those -2000ish bets. Your eyes are so good.
 
Once again we got a thread where ppl complain about Dubas but don’t tell us how they’d solve it with real names / contracts or trades. It’s all complaining.

let’s hear these “gritty” names u guys want

simmonds.. oh wait.
 
The best is that bomber guy, when u look to April you can see him say “I like the job Dubas is doing” and now he’s here with the rest of you close to the end of your life leaf fans hating on Dubie.

getting old must suck. Hopefully y’all make it to see next years playoffs
 
Take on the challenge @AllDay28 ... what evidence do you have that Dubas is any good at using statistics to achieve success?
 
AllDay28 said:
The best is that bomber guy, when u look to April you can see him say “I like the job Dubas is doing” and now he’s here with the rest of you close to the end of your life leaf fans hating on Dubie.

getting old must suck. Hopefully y’all make it to see next years playoffs
Click to expand...
*If we make the playoffs next year once we are back in the Atlantic.

Leafs could be anywhere from 3rd to 6th next year in the Atlantic
 
AllDay28 said:
so you probably don’t want McDavid either. Makes sense

mcdavid with his 8 hits in 4 games. Talk about grit
Click to expand...


McDavid was calling out his teammates and in their face after they made brain dead screw ups.

Have you ever seen that type of leadership or demand for accountability from Matthews or Marner? Or Dubas? Or Sheldon Cuck?
 
AllDay28 said:
Once again we got a thread where ppl complain about Dubas but don’t tell us how they’d solve it with real names / contracts or trades. It’s all complaining.

let’s hear these “gritty” names u guys want

simmonds.. oh wait.
Click to expand...
What you ignore is that many of us were asking for grit long ago. 2 years too late on Simmonds. Should have snagged him at the deadline the season Kadri got suspended so we could insulate him. He went for peanuts.

Stop pretending like Dubas didn't ompletely backtrack on his grit and veterans. He let Hainsey walk and replaced him with Codi f***ing Ceci on the top pair. Let Big Mac walk for the youthful Sparks. He put us in such a cap crunch that when he finally decided to listen....he's literally rooting through other teams garbage bins. Cause that's all we can afford you see. Cause and effect.
 
yubbers said:
What you ignore is that many of us were asking for grit long ago. 2 years too late on Simmonds. Should have snagged him at the deadline the season Kadri got suspended so we could insulate him. He went for peanuts.

Stop pretending like Dubas didn't ompletely backtrack on his grit and veterans. He let Hainsey walk and replaced him with Codi f***ing Ceci on the top pair. Let Big Mac walk for the youthful Sparks. He put us in such a cap crunch that when he finally decided to listen....he's literally rooting through other teams garbage bins. Cause that's all we can afford you see. Cause and effect.
Click to expand...

so none of that answers the quote. Waiting on names. Y’all knew 2 years ago and I still see no names.

who you want this off-season? I’ll bookmark your quote and bump next summer.

look it’s easy living with hindsight.
 
Donnie740 said:
McDavid was calling out his teammates and in their face after they made brain dead screw ups.

Have you ever seen that type of leadership or demand for accountability from Matthews or Marner? Or Dubas? Or Sheldon Cuck?
Click to expand...

wow and that propelled them to getting swept.

He got right in their faces!!!
 
Pookie said:
56 games actually.

Quality of competition? Balanced schedule? Are these factors you'd include in a stats analysis?
Click to expand...

we played the same schedule as the rest of the teams in the North.

I also like you brought up quality of competition .. which is an analytical stat :)

anyways the worst teams in the North were 8th and 9th worst in the NHL so that narrative kinda bombs too.
 
Pookie said:
I kind of thing we have gone a little off topic.

Let's assume... for the moment... that we ALL AGREE that statistics have some value in either player evaluation or adjusting tactics. Things that Dubas himself has spoke of.

Ok? ALL AGREE there is some value in stats.

Now....

What EVIDENCE do we have that Dubas is any good at using them?

I mean if I am running a conference on Analytics in Sports leading to success and I am booking speakers, I sure as hell am not turning to Kyle Dubas.

Billy Beane, yep.
Ian Graham of Liverpool FC, yep.

Kyle Dubas of the Toronto Maple Leafs???

I mean sell me Dubafans... what EVIDENCE is there that this guy is any good at what he professes to be good at?
Click to expand...

One thing you cannot fault management, they sure hire a lot of people. Leafs analytics team has 7 people headed by Metcalf. All Dubas needs is a good coordinator to get everyone working together. The Sabres/ducks/oilers etc... have a single guy in their analytics dept.
 
AllDay28 said:
we played the same schedule as the rest of the teams in the North.

I also like you brought up quality of competition .. which is an analytical stat :)

anyways the worst teams in the North were 8th and 9th worst in the NHL so that narrative kinda bombs too.
Click to expand...

I'm totally fine with acknowledging that stats have a place. Said it a few times now. We can debate which ones but overall, sure. It's information.

I'm not sold on the idea that this guy has any ability to lead a stats department the way that Ian Graham of Liverpool FC has led that club. Graham holds a PhD in Theoretical Physics.

I think he might really like the idea of Moneyball and believes in it. I'm not seeing evidence that he is at a point in his career where he should be leading this.
 
Raistlin1022 said:
One thing you cannot fault management, they sure hire a lot of people. Leafs analytics team has 7 people headed by Metcalf. All Dubas needs is a good coordinator to get everyone working together. The Sabres/ducks/oilers etc... have a single guy in their analytics dept.
Click to expand...

So... why couldn't we use any of that insight and expense to contribute to success?
 
AllDay28 said:
based on your wonderful analysis.
Click to expand...

Your wonderfully well thought analysis has led you to be happy with the situation of the leafs andthink management is doing a good job

Leafs have finished 3rd in 2018, 2019, and were probably going to be 3rd in 2020 before COVID shut the league

They have a worse roster than both Tampa and Boston. Both regular season and playoffs. Winning the division in the North does not change that.

Our teams back then were considerably deeper with guys like
jvr, bozak, Kadri, komo or kap, AJ, Marleau, Moore being much better support pieces down the lineup then
Mikheyev, kerfoot, Engvall, Galchenyuk

The leafs traded off their depth in order to keep the big 4 and hope they would drive offense like stars do. That hasn't been the case with 3 straight humulaiting 1st round exits where our offense went MIA.

Best case we stay a strong regular season team and come 3rd but I'm not so sure.

The Panthers looked elite this season and are a deep team that fell to Tampa in 6. They were a few points behind us in 2020 and they have gotten stronger with Weegar, Bennett, Hornqvist all being huge players for them.

If leafs don't come out hot and play like they did in 2020 we end the division 4th which may be good enough for a wild car spot but most likely not with the Metro usually taking both wildcards recently

The two wild card teams are the sens and Habs. We all saw the Habs are built better for the playoffs than our current team. Habs vs Leafs is a pretty easy call towards the Habs in the playoffs. They have been a poor regular season team past 3 out of 4 years. If Bergervin has a strong off-season and retains a lot of their UFAs they will be a threat for 4th. We finish 5th if we come out flat and see a star take a step back or suffer injury for a long period of time killing off our offense.

The sens are the final threat with them havi g a lot of young, skilled emerging talent. They always give us trouble along with the Habs. If they beat these two teams out they just need to do well against Florida and they have a shot at the 3rd spot. They are a long shot and would need the leafs to fully suck in order to pass us but it's possible

I say we have a

40% shot at 3rd
35% shot at 4th
20% shot at 5th
~5% shot at 6th

I'll say it's certain we don't finish below wings and Sabres or above Tampa and Boston
 
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