Confirmed with Link: Seider signs (7 x $8.55m)

[HisNoodliness]

I hope Seider and Ed can play 45 minutes each with that lineup. That bottom 4 is f***ing putrid. Amongst the worst in the NHL.

I'm not sure how we can slice it any better tbh. The obvious candidate:

Chiarot-Seider
Ed-Petry

Edvinsson has to learn the league next to a former two way D that can't skate or adapt his game. Since we will only have one pairing that we can trust, Seider and Chiarot will get way overworked, like last year, and Mo will essentially spend the year playing the PK at 5on5.

Gus and Maatta could try filling in for Petry and Chiarot, but the results forecast similarly. I do think Gus-Seider has a chance at being a fun pairing, but not really a very good one.

So I think Ed-Seider is probably our best bet. We'll just accept our second pairing getting absolutely annihilated whenever they touch the ice, and treat them like a third pairing. That means a tremendous workload on rookie Simon Edvinsson, but at least he'll be out there with a functional hockey player. Ditto for Seider.


The biggest problem is that if the pairing sucks, it will be impossible for us to just cast all of our defensive problems as being the fault of Walman, Chiarot, Petry, etc. Fortunately, it is all their fault, so Seider-Ed will crush it out there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'm not sure how we can slice it any better tbh. The obvious candidate:

Chiarot-Seider
Ed-Petry

Edvinsson has to learn the league next to a former two way D that can't skate or adapt his game. Since we will only have one pairing that we can trust, Seider and Chiarot will get way overworked, like last year, and Mo will essentially spend the year playing the PK at 5on5.

Gus and Maatta could try filling in for Petry and Chiarot, but the results forecast similarly. I do think Gus-Seider has a chance at being a fun pairing, but not really a very good one.

So I think Ed-Seider is probably our best bet. We'll just accept our second pairing getting absolutely annihilated whenever they touch the ice, and treat them like a third pairing. That means a tremendous workload on rookie Simon Edvinsson, but at least he'll be out there with a functional hockey player. Ditto for Seider.


The biggest problem is that if the pairing sucks, it will be impossible for us to just cast all of our defensive problems as being the fault of Walman, Chiarot, Petry, etc. Fortunately, it is all their fault, so Seider-Ed will crush it out there.

I doubt that Lalonde does it, but this is what I'd like to see;

Johansson/Maatta - Seider
Ed - Gustafsson (might be an upgrade on Maatta-Ghost from last year as the pair that takes mismatches and wins)
Chiarot - Petry (as a 3rd pair they're alright but Not anything more than 18-19 minutes a night)

 

[HisNoodliness]

I doubt that Lalonde does it, but this is what I'd like to see;

Johansson/Maatta - Seider
Ed - Gustafsson (might be an upgrade on Maatta-Ghost from last year as the pair that takes mismatches and wins)
Chiarot - Petry (as a 3rd pair they're alright but Not anything more than 18-19 minutes a night)

I think if Johansson manages to translate his game to the NHL level, he'd be an awesome partner for Seider. So I'd be really happy to try that lineup, but it is anyone's guess how well AlJo actually can do in that role.

 

[minimal]

There's no way that Ed is paired with Seider this season unless it's "batten down the hatches" mode in the last 2/3 minutes of a game. The blue line isn't great as it stands, and loading up the top pairing will only make it worse.

 

[odin1981]

It's still about those years.

I think it went this way:

Both had 8 years on the table, but Yzerman informed that both can't sign for 8 years. Either one has to cut a year.

Then guys did meet at Germany and solved this situation by themselves with agents.

Seider 8-year contracted value would have been ~8.98M (400k more) if I estimate that with just cap growth rate. And Raymond ~500k less.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Seider 7-year, 8.55M

Raymond 8-year 8.075M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

So it was a combo of 7 and 8-year deals, one way or another.

Two 8-year deals, for 8.98M + 8.075M could not fit under the cap.

Seider 8-year, 8.98M
Raymond 7-year 7.59M

Quite sure this was also a possibility, it would have been 30k under the cap.

Finally, they did went with these:

Seider 7-year, 8.55M
Raymond 8-year 8.075M

Team got a little bit more cap room, which still can be factor at the trade deadline, when the space will start growing.

And as another factor, also those numbers did fit better on the team hierarchy.

This just went really nice way. Larkin is the top caphit etc.

Someone could have been released or Husso or Holl bought out if need be. Or a ahl vet released.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think if Johansson manages to translate his game to the NHL level, he'd be an awesome partner for Seider. So I'd be really happy to try that lineup, but it is anyone's guess how well AlJo actually can do in that role.

I think it's just a matter of getting the coaching staff's trust for Johansson's game to translate. He's an upper tier skater at the NHL level and would easily be the best skating defenseman on the team the second he suits up. He's also got a high panic threshold (at least in the SHL and AHL levels) and has backed off trying to be the offensive generator he was in the SHL. AlJo's AHL game was predicated on safe puck movement and using his speed to win puck retrievals and get things moving up ice quickly.

If I could compare it to anyone in the NHL it would be Sam Girard with the outside chance of becoming a Marc-Eduard Vlasic style of defender whose game is predicated on speed to box out the opposition.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think it's just a matter of getting the coaching staff's trust for Johansson's game to translate. He's an upper tier skater at the NHL level and would easily be the best skating defenseman on the team the second he suits up. He's also got a high panic threshold (at least in the SHL and AHL levels) and has backed off trying to be the offensive generator he was in the SHL. AlJo's AHL game was predicated on safe puck movement and using his speed to win puck retrievals and get things moving up ice quickly.

If I could compare it to anyone in the NHL it would be Sam Girard with the outside chance of becoming a Marc-Eduard Vlasic style of defender whose game is predicated on speed to box out the opposition.

They're definitely not a one to one comparison, but I really think that AlJo-Seider could work similarly to that Hedman-Stralman pairing that worked so well in Tampa. Seider could skate the puck, pinch up, and roam for big hits. AlJo would use his speed and smarts to collect dumps and turn them the other way, and delay anything that manages to develop behind Seider as he comes rushing back. Hedman- hasn't looked as good since Stralman left, even with a better partner in Sergachev.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I hope Seider and Ed can play 45 minutes each with that lineup. That bottom 4 is f***ing putrid. Amongst the worst in the NHL.

I have no clue what our pairings would be to be honest. I don't really want Chiarot on the top pair. Do we roll with

Gus-Seider
Ed-Petry
Maatta-Chiarot
Holl As 7?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Johansson is not waiver eligible so he has to be in the roster.

 

[Henkka]

Johansson is not waiver eligible so he has to be in the roster.

Yeah.

It's pretty obvious that they could keep 3 goalies and 8 defencemen up. And use only 12 forwards at day 1.

Our kid forwards are waiver eligible, to that will give flexibility with them. If there's injuries, kids can be called up and sent down without carrying any extra sitting on the bench.

But goalies and defence will stay up, because all the waiver-wire guys are older.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

 

[The Zermanator]

Yeah.

It's pretty obvious that they could keep 3 goalies and 8 defencemen up. And use only 12 forwards at day 1.

Our kid forwards are waiver eligible, to that will give flexibility with them. If there's injuries, kids can be called up and sent down without carrying any extra sitting on the bench.

But goalies and defence will stay up, because all the waiver-wire guys are older.

And if some team would claim Holl off waivers, why should we stop them?

 

[SoupNazi]

I fully expect Seider to earn every dime of his contract this year. Ultimately, he's our number 1 and the buck stops with him.

I'd love to see him further develop the physicality in his game. Hell, a few fights would be nice this season, but they should be safe, legal and rare.

 

[newfy]

I think it's just a matter of getting the coaching staff's trust for Johansson's game to translate. He's an upper tier skater at the NHL level and would easily be the best skating defenseman on the team the second he suits up. He's also got a high panic threshold (at least in the SHL and AHL levels) and has backed off trying to be the offensive generator he was in the SHL. AlJo's AHL game was predicated on safe puck movement and using his speed to win puck retrievals and get things moving up ice quickly.

If I could compare it to anyone in the NHL it would be Sam Girard with the outside chance of becoming a Marc-Eduard Vlasic style of defender whose game is predicated on speed to box out the opposition.

He also kinda has similarities to TJ Brodie with a grittier side. Offence wont be his calling card but I think if everything goes right, hes the type of guy that advanced stat models will love. He gets the puck on retrievals really fast and moved out of the zone even quicker. He kinda just doesnt do much in the offensive zone.

 

[Henkka]

And if some team would claim Holl off waivers, why should we stop them?

Don't believe that to happen. His 2nd year is always a problem for many. On his final year some could make a claim.

 

[Henkka]

I fully expect Seider to earn every dime of his contract this year. Ultimately, he's our number 1 and the buck stops with him.

I'd love to see him further develop the physicality in his game. Hell, a few fights would be nice this season, but they should be safe, legal and rare.

Also expect him to get +3min of ice-time, to earn his paycheck.

Also, I'll expect him to start hitting more again. Think he was saving those, so he don't miss any games for injuries, if something will happen for himself on a contract year. Now he is "free" to go full blast.

The most interesting times of Moritz the Seidernator are ahead.

 

[SirloinUB]

It will be interesting to see how his PP usage compares this year compared to last.

He was second to Gostisbhere last year. Obviously Gustafsson was brought in this year and seems to have the inside track on PP1.

Does Seider eventually takeover that role?

 

[The Zermanator]

Don't believe that to happen. His 2nd year is always a problem for many. On his final year some could make a claim.

I know, I was being facetious. But my point is if Holl is waived there are 2 options:

1) He gets claimed (very unlikely).

2) He gets buried in GR and opens up a spot on the Wings (much more likely).

Now you only get $1M in cap relief, but that is coincidentally what an ELC cap hit would be. So if we had the choice between Danielson or Holl on the Wings for the exact same overall cap usage, I choose Danielson 10 times out of 10.

 

[Henkka]

2) He gets buried in GR and opens up a spot on the Wings (much more likely).

Now you only get $1M in cap relief, but that is coincidentally what an ELC cap hit would be. So if we had the choice between Danielson or Holl on the Wings for the exact same overall cap usage, I choose Danielson 10 times out of 10.

I think he could get buried, but that happens for cap purposes, to create more deadline space.

If he is 8th defencememan, and he gets buried, he does not open a spot for anyone. We don't need anyone to sit on the bench as 8th defenceman.

That's the spot he opens, For 8th defenceman - guy out of the lineup.

If a forward will get injured, that will open a spot for Danielson. Nothing really what happens with Holl.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Surely he's running PP1 and not gus, right???

 

[The Zermanator]

I think he could get buried, but that happens for cap purposes, to create more deadline space.

If he is 8th defencememan, and he gets buried, he does not open a spot for anyone. We don't need anyone to sit on the bench as 8th defenceman.

That's the spot he opens, For 8th defenceman - guy out of the lineup.

If a forward will get injured, that will open a spot for Danielson. Nothing really what happens with Holl.

It does open up a spot for someone though, on the roster. You're assuming that it wouldn't open up a spot on the lineup, which isn't true. If a player is on the roster, they can make the lineup. There's a good chance that Danielson will prove himself a more useful player than one of Motte, Fischer, Veleno, or Copp. Those 4 players can be the ones sitting out games in that event while Danielson plays.

But that isn't possible with Holl wasting a roster spot when there's no intention of playing him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Surely he's running PP1 and not gus, right???

That's our hope but I'm half expecting Fester to use load management as an excuse to not have him on PP1.

 

[RRhoads]

If we for some reason need to put Holl in the lineup, it would be nice if he was in game shape. He won't be that unless he plays some games. I would send him to GR. No need for 8 defensemen up here.

 

[FlyguyOX]

That's our hope but I'm half expecting Fester to use load management as an excuse to not have him on PP1.

Lalonde is terrible

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Lalonde is terrible

Yeah, he's not great. His strategies (or lack thereof) probably cost Detroit a few points last season and some the season before. Riding Husso/Reimer when they were ice cold, never using a timeout, riding Chiarot/Seider for 41 games when it was as plain as day they didn't work, Raymond and DBC on PP2 when Perron was on PP1, etc. I'm not impressed with his decision making.