Sdgulls Amazing House of Wonders Goalie Analysis Thread

[lumbergh]

He's simply the most competitive goalie in the game right now. It's an absolute pleasure watching him for 50+ games a season.

The only hole in his game is playing the puck behind the net. When he figures that out, if he ever figures that out, he'll be the best goalie of his generation.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

I assumed "back in form" was just a poor choice of words. He's lever left form. 2 Stanley Cups, a Jennings and a Conn Smythe in 3 years.

There hasn't been a time where the best goalie in the world was "out of form" for any length of time.

Quick is playing out of his mind this season. Somehow he's managing to get better with age.

There's been a couple. Of course "he had it in him", but he definitely didn't channel it.

 

[johnjm22]

I assumed "back in form" was just a poor choice of words. He's lever left form. 2 Stanley Cups, a Jennings and a Conn Smythe in 3 years.

There hasn't been a time where the best goalie in the world was "out of form" for any length of time.

Quick is playing out of his mind this season. Somehow he's managing to get better with age.

I consider him to be the best goaltender in the world over the past 3 years, but that doesn't mean his game hasn't been through ups and downs.

Goaltenders get hot and cold. It's the nature of the position. Even the greats struggle at times, and even average goalies can be lights out over stretches (Faust, Bryz, Mason, Leclaire, Smith, Ward, Halak ect. the list goes on forever). The difference is, the greats always come back from slumps, and can be relied on through thick and thin. They put together a body of work over a longer period of time.

As for Quick, there's clear differences in his game when he's on top of it. Mainly, he's more relaxed, not over playing, and staying further back in his net.

I think some of the pressure of living up to the CS and the new contract, affected his play initially. He was trying too hard, but that's behind him now.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think people are completely discounting the mental effects too of surgeries and injuries. The D was abysmal at times over his downtime and it was clear he was trying to do too much to compensate (overplaying everything).

It could just be goaltender hot-and-cold/consistency issues, but I'm not going to completely write off long-term injuries as a factor.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

I think people are completely discounting the mental effects too of surgeries and injuries. The D was abysmal at times over his downtime and it was clear he was trying to do too much to compensate (overplaying everything).

It could just be goaltender hot-and-cold/consistency issues, but I'm not going to completely write off long-term injuries as a factor.

Injuries can be a reason for him being out of form. There's no stat adjustment for injury. Him returning to form very simply could mean he's in good health again.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

Maybe a more appropriate title would have been "Jonathan Quick's back is in form"

 

[TonySCV]

About the Jennings? Mostly due to airtight team defense and his backups, just compare his stats to Scrivens and Jones.

You may as well state that Quick was mediocre last year because the D in front of him was so great, and Quick has been stellar this year because the defense in front of him hasn't been. That's not fair to Quick. Causation and stats isn't the be all, end all when evaluating him.

What's amazing about Quick is he's able to elevate his game when he has to, and he certainly has a keen understanding of when it's necessary. He's very Mike Vernon-like in that regard, sometimes it seems like he lets a goal or two in just to keep the game interesting, then he shuts the door.

 

[Ron*]

You may as well state that Quick was mediocre last year because the D in front of him was so great, and Quick has been stellar this year because the defense in front of him hasn't been. That's not fair to Quick. Causation and stats isn't the be all, end all when evaluating him.

What's amazing about Quick is he's able to elevate his game when he has to, and he certainly has a keen understanding of when it's necessary. He's very Mike Vernon-like in that regard, sometimes it seems like he lets a goal or two in just to keep the game interesting, then he shuts the door.

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When he can stop these kinds of goals, then I will truly revere him. But he has to be a "complete goalie." And that means stopping EVERYTHING.
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[Bee Sheriff]

You may as well state that Quick was mediocre last year because the D in front of him was so great, and Quick has been stellar this year because the defense in front of him hasn't been. That's not fair to Quick. Causation and stats isn't the be all, end all when evaluating him.

What's amazing about Quick is he's able to elevate his game when he has to, and he certainly has a keen understanding of when it's necessary. He's very Mike Vernon-like in that regard, sometimes it seems like he lets a goal or two in just to keep the game interesting, then he shuts the door.

If this was the case Scrivens and Jones would've had bad stats as well. He just played, while still good, not as great as he was capable of.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If this was the case Scrivens and Jones would've had bad stats as well. He just played, while still good, not as great as he was capable of.

I agree with that. But I think most of this board will agree that the team really picked up their own defensive play when Scrivens and Jones were back there while Quick was out. I don't think the stats will really show that (haven't bothered to check, tbh), but the eye test did.

 

[TonySCV]

If this was the case Scrivens and Jones would've had bad stats as well. He just played, while still good, not as great as he was capable of.

He didn't have to be great because Scrivens and Jones were (and the D elevated their play when they were in net). That's the point, right? They made the playoffs. He won the Cup. Who really cares much about the regular season, so long as they make it. He did what was necessary, which thanks to his buds, didn't require super-human performances for long stretches.

Quick is well aware this season that he's going to have to play out of his mind for this team to make the playoffs this year. The D is too much of a hot mess at present, and has been since the start of the season. His play is reflecting that, and it's impressive he has that ability. He's just a freak of nature. I don't know if we'll ever see another goalie like him.

 

[T2M]

He didn't have to be great because Scrivens and Jones were (and the D elevated their play when they were in net). That's the point, right? They made the playoffs. He won the Cup. Who really cares much about the regular season, so long as they make it. He did what was necessary, which thanks to his buds, didn't require super-human performances for long stretches.

Quick is well aware this season that he's going to have to play out of his mind for this team to make the playoffs this year. The D is too much of a hot mess at present, and has been since the start of the season. His play is reflecting that, and it's impressive he has that ability. He's just a freak of nature. I don't know if we'll ever see another goalie like him.

We will in the league, but I don't know if we will on this team. There are always going to be outrageously talented and competitive athletes, some of whom will don the pads. There only seems to be one or two in a generation though, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We will in the league, but I don't know if we will on this team. There are always going to be outrageously talented and competitive athletes, some of whom will don the pads. There only seems to be one or two in a generation though, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Very true. We need to enjoy this. This may be the best team we ever have. Quick is very likely the best goalie to ever wear a Kings jersey even in the future. Not many franchises get more than one of these guys.

 

[cyclones22]

You may as well state that Quick was mediocre last year because the D in front of him was so great, and Quick has been stellar this year because the defense in front of him hasn't been. That's not fair to Quick. Causation and stats isn't the be all, end all when evaluating him.

What's amazing about Quick is he's able to elevate his game when he has to, and he certainly has a keen understanding of when it's necessary. He's very Mike Vernon-like in that regard, sometimes it seems like he lets a goal or two in just to keep the game interesting, then he shuts the door.

Pretty much. The thing about Quick is that we know and he knows he's got the mental fortitude to shut the door when it matters most. All the other guys who are in the discussion for best goaltender in the league, it's all just theoretical with them. You don't know if you can do it, until you've actually done it. Although both Rask and Hank have been in the Stanley Cup Final, they both lost. Both played well, but had games where they mentally lost it. Rask in Game 6 and Game 2 for Hank. The other guys haven't even sniffed a SCF. Quick is 5-0 in Stanley Cup Final overtime games...think about that. 5 of the Kings 8 Stanley Cup victories were in overtime. A couple of those go the other way and history might be different. Does any goaltender have a better SCF overtime record?

 

[Nasti]

Pretty much. The thing about Quick is that we know and he knows he's got the mental fortitude to shut the door when it matters most. All the other guys who are in the discussion for best goaltender in the league, it's all just theoretical with them. You don't know if you can do it, until you've actually done it. Although both Rask and Hank have been in the Stanley Cup Final, they both lost. Both played well, but had games where they mentally lost it. Rask in Game 6 and Game 2 for Hank. The other guys haven't even sniffed a SCF. Quick is 5-0 in Stanley Cup Final overtime games...think about that. 5 of the Kings 8 Stanley Cup victories were in overtime. A couple of those go the other way and history might be different. Does any goaltender have a better SCF overtime record?

Just to add:

5 were in overtime (2 in double OT), 2 were shutouts, and 1 where he gave up one goal (the clincher against the Devils). The losses? Gave up two goals in all three games. There's not a single finals game where you can say Quick lost it.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Very true. We need to enjoy this. This may be the best team we ever have. Quick is very likely the best goalie to ever wear a Kings jersey even in the future. Not many franchises get more than one of these guys.

He is.

 

[Reclamation Project]

He is.

Yeah, really no question.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He is.

Yeah, really no question.

As of now absolutely. Had to leave myself some leeway in case someone in like 2100 comes in and wrecks his records

 

[Muzzinga]

psh, look at these kings "fans" already forgetting the Ersberg era

 

[Sheng Peng]

Causation and stats isn't the be all, end all when evaluating him.

I'm not suggesting that stats are "the be all, end all." I watched the games and thought Quick gave up more soft goals than Scrivens and Jones. Then the numbers seemed to support that notion.

But I think most of this board will agree that the team really picked up their own defensive play when Scrivens and Jones were back there while Quick was out. I don't think the stats will really show that (haven't bothered to check, tbh), but the eye test did.

This is an interesting point, which my eye didn't agree with, so I did some quick and dirty research on War on Ice. Essentially, I totaled 5v5 shots for/against, 5v5 Corsi %, and 5v5 Fenwick % for Quick's starts last year. Then I did the same for Scrivens/Jones's starts.

Of course, this is imperfect, because the backups relieved Quick at times in games. Also, important scoring chance info isn't accounted for:

psh, look at these kings "fans" already forgetting the Ersberg era

Daring to question Quick's contributions doesn't make me any less a "fan" than you. I haven't forgotten Ersberg. Or Cechmanek. Or Storr. Or Berthiaume. How far back would you like to go?

I'm not stating that the Kings could've replaced Quick with Scrivens or Jones and achieved the same team results. Quick has proven that he can carry the load mentally and physically over an entire regular season. Then he's shown an ability to stand out in the postseason limelight. And his teammates seem to have unshakeable faith in him, which is underrated. He's demonstrated bursts of greatness that Scrivens or Jones or even Bernier haven't displayed yet (though there is some argument that they haven't been given the chance, especially Bernier).

But I think it's reasonable to ask a goalie with an "elite" paycheck and reputation to perform that way from October to the end of the playoffs (which doesn't mean he needs to win a Cup every year or be marvelous every single game). Right now, he's doing it, and I hope he keeps it up. He was my pre-season Vezina pick.

 

[Muzzinga]

 

[Sheng Peng]

He looks like a 10-year-old raising Conan's sword:

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is an interesting point, which my eye didn't agree with, so I did some quick and dirty research on War on Ice. Essentially, I totaled 5v5 shots for/against, 5v5 Corsi %, and 5v5 Fenwick % for Quick's starts last year. Then I did the same for Scrivens/Jones's starts.

Of course, this is imperfect, because the backups relieved Quick at times in games. Also, important scoring chance info isn't accounted for:

Daring to question Quick's contributions doesn't make me any less a "fan" than you. I haven't forgotten Ersberg. Or Cechmanek. Or Storr. Or Berthiaume. How far back would you like to go?

I'm not stating that the Kings could've replaced Quick with Scrivens or Jones and achieved the same team results. Quick has proven that he can carry the load mentally and physically over an entire regular season. Then he's shown an ability to stand out in the postseason limelight. And his teammates seem to have unshakeable faith in him, which is underrated. He's demonstrated bursts of greatness that Scrivens or Jones or even Bernier haven't displayed yet (though there is some argument that they haven't been given the chance, especially Bernier).

But I think it's reasonable to ask a goalie with an "elite" paycheck and reputation to perform that way from October to the end of the playoffs (which doesn't mean he needs to win a Cup every year or be marvelous every single game). Right now, he's doing it, and I hope he keeps it up. He was my pre-season Vezina pick.

Thank you for running the stats on that. So it looks like on an average basis the team was actually equal/worse for Scrivens/Jones by at least traditional Corsi/Fenwick. I seem to remember just sheer ugly breakdowns for Quick, though, which is why I said the stats won't account for it (as you did in your disclaimer), as those stats count volume possession rather than quality. It could just be confirmation bias on my part though. But still really nice to see in numbers that the teams' play overall was being carried in about the same ways.

As to the boldfaced, *twitches*

I agree. I even picked Quick 1st overall in our fantasy draft (goalies weighted more heavily than normal) as a show of faith . I figured he would return to fully elite form as we saw by the end of the Rangers series.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

Very true. We need to enjoy this. This may be the best team we ever have. Quick is very likely the best goalie to ever wear a Kings jersey even in the future. Not many franchises get more than one of these guys.

Oh man...What if we're the next Oilers? Spend time reigning over the league and then...

 

[T2M]

Oh man...What if we're the next Oilers? Spend time reigning over the league and then...

Being a Kings fan pre-2012 should have prepared you for that should it happen.