Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder

[Guttersniped]

Look at the other 2024 draft trades.

There’s the price of 1 year of Jeannot after he had a down injury-riddled year.

Tanner Jeannot W 27
1 year/2.665m UFA
for
2024 4th #118
2025 LAK 2nd

This is what Malenstyn cost after his first season with more than 12 GP.

Beck Malenstyn C/LW 26
unsigned RFA
for
2024 2nd Rd #43

Grit is expensive these days. And it’ll be expensive on the UFA market, which is why it’s helpful that Vegas got Cotter to sign a dirt cheap extension.

Paul Cotter W/C 24
2 years/775k RFA

You want to throw money around elsewhere it helps to have a minimum salary NHL player.

So I would argue Cotter’s value is a 2nd round pick, as is Holtz (at best).

Holtz was going to be traded for another struggling young player, or he was going to be a minor piece in a trade, but that’s it. He was never going to get anything that exciting.

 

[Bleedred]

I have to apologize to the website for cursing it earlier for logging me out.

It turns out that it wasn't the website's fault. I've found myself logged out of everything on my desktop today.

I immediately blamed the website because it was running a little slow yesterday and a little today because of the draft.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The lack of a floor on Holtz probably hurts a lot too. He has to hit his upside or he isn't a NHL player.

He adds nothing to a team's bottom 6. He has to be a top 6 player to best use his shot, but if he is an absolute liability around the ice (which he currently is) then no one is going to put him there.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

I think we probably should have traded him last year before the league saw all 82 games this season.

They tried. San Jose didn’t want him

 

[BarkleyTiger]

When he gets back from his walk he'll talk.

Fun fact, I found out not long ago that one of the Barstool guys lives in the town I grew up in and Frank was walking the trail I go to recently.

he responded. not good trade. no wonder the Prudential center hot dogs are terrible with this incompetent organization.

 

[JimEIV]

I have to apologize to the website for cursing it earlier for logging me out.

It turns out that it wasn't the website's fault. I've found myself logged out of everything on my desktop today.

I immediately blamed the website because it was running a little slow yesterday and a little today because of the draft.

Gremlins. You got them wet didn't you?

 

[Team Concept]

I look at this as two separate trades.

A 3rd rounder for Schmid, I'm fine with. Markstrom is taking over in net, and Daws has passed Schmid on the depth chart with Malek coming in.

A 4th liner for a recent #7 overall pick is a symptom of a larger problem. Now, I like Paul Cotter -- he's got more puck skill than the average 4th liner and plays an interior, physical game. But it still seems we mismanaged Holtz from the beginning, which hurts.

First off, there's no way NJ should have drafted Holtz over Jarvis or Quinn. He simply wasn't as good in any area except shooting at the same RW position. Then the team fumbled his development, screwed with his confidence, and sold on him while his value was lowest.

This does not mean the trade will not work out next year. A more physical bottom 6 is needed and Cotter fills a need. With improved goaltending and defense (looking at you, Pesce and Dillon) and better health, the Devils could absolutely make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

But the value of Holtz was mismanaged from the get-go, and on a team with one 1st round pick in a 3-year span, New Jersey cannot afford to allow a mistake like this again.

In what world are we getting a 3rd rounder for Schmid? I think you've got it backwards. Its Cotter for Schmid straight up and its a 3rd rounder for Holtz. Its the best we could do to get rid of Holtz.

 

[Team Concept]

Between the Holtz pick at 7 and the Mercer pick at 18 in 2020 there were 10 selections. Looking back at it now I would have been happy with Jack Quinn, Marco Rossi, Cole Perfetti, Anton Lundell, or Seth Jarvis. Not sure why Fitz's scouts went with Holtz. If I recall the fan base wanted him badly on Hughes' wing and was ecstatic when Fitz made the selection. Not sure he was the BPA though at pick 7.

 

[Guttersniped]

Between the Holtz pick at 7 and the Mercer pick at 18 in 2020 there were 10 selections. Looking back at it now I would have been happy with Jack Quinn, Marco Rossi, Cole Perfetti, Anton Lundell, or Seth Jarvis. Not sure why Fitz's scouts went with Holtz. If I recall the fan base wanted him badly on Hughes' wing and was ecstatic when Fitz made the selection. Not sure he was the BPA though at pick 7.

Almost one here wanted him but sadly Devils mgmt never consults on key decisions.

 

[Normal Devil]

Between the Holtz pick at 7 and the Mercer pick at 18 in 2020 there were 10 selections. Looking back at it now I would have been happy with Jack Quinn, Marco Rossi, Cole Perfetti, Anton Lundell, or Seth Jarvis. Not sure why Fitz's scouts went with Holtz. If I recall the fan base wanted him badly on Hughes' wing and was ecstatic when Fitz made the selection. Not sure he was the BPA though at pick 7.

I wanted Rossi at the time, but I don't recall Holtz being much of a reach. He was thought to go somewhere around that top 10. Just a swing and a miss. Picked the wrong guy.

 

[longislanddevil]

Somehow just hearing about this now. Absolute disgusting trade. Fitz usually nails these deals but this is the complete sh**s.

 

[Guttersniped]

I wanted Rossi at the time, but I don't recall Holtz being much of a reach. He was thought to go somewhere around that top 10. Just a swing and a miss. Picked the wrong guy.

It’s not confusing how we got him.

Unfortunately no ahead of us did something odd or stupid so the players we wanted the most were gone.

I get how the Devils talked themselves out of Rossi.

Then it was Perfetti vs Holtz vs Quinn (Jarvis went 13th, let’s be realistic here).

 

[SKNJD9]

Somehow just hearing about this now. Absolute disgusting trade. Fitz usually nails these deals but this is the complete sh**s.

Holtz value tanked around the league for reasons both his own and the org.

Schmid is #4 on the depth chart and supposedly wanted out ( unconfirmed )

Cotter has potential to become a bottom 6 a-hole Tanner Jeannot type player. The production is already there. At least we got something for Holtz

 

[Devils Pride 26]

Playoff hockey trade. Hate losing Schmid but Holtz was useless here

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Schmid's apparently gonna start in Henderson for Vegas according to McCrimmon so maybe it was just a change of scenery, him getting jumped by Daws in the organization's eyes and the contract stuff from last summer ( ? )

 

[Incharge1976]

Lol yea. It speaks to the mindset of how stupid Fitz is he's like, this guy we drafted to be a sniper (the reason you dont draft for f***ing need and is an example of why Fitzgerald sucks at drafting), so lets use him as a bottom six player and get mad he isn't developing into an overall player. Trying to shoehorn someone into something they arent.

Also, if this new plug sees any ice time near Jack and it's not because Jack is double shifting with the 4th line, Fitz and Keefe are both f***ing donkeys.

He doesn't fit into our top 6 so your point is moot. Maybe he goes someplace else and flourishes but it's not happening here with Jack or Nico.

 

[bossram]

I didn't like the Devils' draft outside of selecting Silayev. Didn't really like the other picks, don't like trading Marino, and this is kind of the culmination.

I think Cotter will be a fine-to-useful 4th line forward. And I get the org hates Holtz. But it's just horrible asset management all the way around, from making the wrong pick at 7th, to doing whatever they can to sewer his value, and then eventually trading him for a 4th liner. Why?

I like Schmid a lot and think he is more promising than Daws. But I guess you move him if the club thinks Daws has passed him and they have Poulter coming. Oh well.

 

[ninetyeight]

First off, there's no way NJ should have drafted Holtz over Jarvis or Quinn. He simply wasn't as good in any area except shooting at the same RW position.

With all due respect (and I mean it), let's not (and this goes for all of you history revisioners) act like Holtz was some off board reach.

Here's what you had to say in your final ranking: "11) RW Alexander Holtz, Djurgarden SHL best pure sniper in the 2020 class also has a very solid all-around game; will score at any level"

And this just a few months earlier: "1. Alexander Holtz, Djurgarden SHL simply put, the best shooter in the draft. Holtz can lock and load like no tomorrow, and has the rare ability to wire a puck past a set goaltender from anywhere in the offensive zone. Due to this, some of Holtz’s other skills have been overlooked — he’s a very good skater, passer and all-around player whose puck handling abilities in traffic can also be called elite. All of that is great, but his 40+ goal-scoring upside is the main reason he’ll likely be gone in the first 7 picks of the 2020 draft." (2020 RW Rankings)

I suggest everyone to check out the draft threads and Holtz threads. The majority were very ok with the pick and now suddently people are acting like they wanted absolutely no part with Holtz just because they had 1-3 players ahead of him.

But I think we can all agree that the scouting, drafting and development all failed. Why draft a one dimentional Toffoli like shooter if you want him to be a defensively reliable thirdliner? Why not just take Lundell in the first place? And the development, playing him with bottom6 minutes and sitting him most of 23 season. Hanging on to him this long only to deal him when his value is low.

 

[Nico Hischier]

With all due respect (and I mean it), let's not (and this goes for all of you history revisioners) act like Holtz was some off board reach.

It’s not like it was Zacha over Rantanen. Holtz was at least projected to be in the top 10. Zacha was ranked in the 20s on most lists.

 

[MachoDiablo]

Feels like we need to separate the complaints about scouting/player development/handling of Holtz from the complaints about this trade in and of itself.

To me, the trade itself is fine: Holtz wasn't getting it done here and he clearly doesn't have a ton of value around the league. Rather than go full sunk-cost fallacy, the Devils cut ties and used this as a chance to bring in a bottom 6 guy who plays the kind of game the front office clearly wants to see played around the skilled core players (no, not saying Cotter will play on the ice with Jack/Nico much at all), who's got two years on his contract at a low cap hit. Schmid also got leapfrogged in the depth chart; whether this was the right choice or not, whether it turns out keeping him or keeping Dawes was the right move, effectively getting a 3rd for Akira isn't exactly outlandish.

That said, while I think most of us were ok with the Holtz pick at the time, I agree with those saying it felt too much like drafting for positional need when the answer should almost always be to go BPA; "hey, we've got these young #1 centers we've drafted, let's get them a guy with a beast of a shot they can set up!" I don't think Holtz was a reach by any means, the consensus seemed to be he was a legitimate top 10 pick, but something obviously didn't click.

The issue is whether that's just on Holtz for not adjusting to the NHL so well, or whether the Devils have culpability in how they developed him, and if there need to be bigger questions asked about the organization's drafting ability. I'm honestly not sure; sometimes there isn't much you can do on that, and some draft picks simply don't work out. Hell, just the fact that Mercer was nabbed in the same round shows the Devils had an idea what they were doing. But it's at least a separate conversation that might be worth having.

 

[theoptimist]

Zacha (2018) or Holtz?

 

[BurntToast]

Holtz is a product of the Covid era drafts. He is not a bad dude, but his wasn’t given the best chance. It was mostly because of Mercer, but Mercer deserved it. Holtz’s personality feels a bit Nonchalant or Lackadaisical.

If we analyze the 2020 draft, the majority of the top 10 players struggled. Rossi, Laf, Byfield, and Perf finally broke out this year.

The two best players from the top 10 are Raymond and Stutzle. The worst two…the goal scores Quinn and Holtz. I think the metric for a goal scoring prospect is off. The world crapped on Hughes’ shot and he almost scored 50 goals.

Raymond was the passer in the 2020 draft and Holtz was the cannon but Raymond is a 30 goal scorer in the NHL, not Holtz. There is only 1 Ovy, but teams will continue to chase those players in the draft.

The Devils have struggled to put together a decent 3rd line for years and the forth line got nuked because of a bass hole. The Devils get a young, more physical, roll player, that has some scoring upside. Can’t complain.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Yeah and he's been WAY worse this year, 7 goals in 70 something games. He's also been a 0.5ppg player in ahl his whole career while Holtz was ppg in his first full year. Holtz has gotten better each year, this guy is already declining. You are delusional if you think he's better. Holtz will score more next year than this guy in his whole (short) stint in the Devils.

Holtz can’t score in the NHL if he is out of the NHL.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

It’s not like it was Zacha over Rantanen. Holtz was at least projected to be in the top 10. Zacha was ranked in the 20s on most lists.

I won’t lie I was one who was on the Zacha pick. I remember most here wanted Barzal.

 

[swiiscompos]

Most of you look at this purely as a hockey trade, but that’s underestimating how important Cotter’s salary is to the organization in terms of flexibility and opportunity it offers down the road.

We also need to be careful about the sunk cost fallacy. In hindsight Holtz was not the right pick but that has no bearing on his current value.