F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft)

[Mathieukferland]

McKenzie used a scout quote saying Hagens’ size was a concern, which was always bullshit

You have a good view of players, you’ve probably watched him more than me. In the 10 or so games l’ve seen, his propensity to get outmuscled in small areas was something I did notice, and for someone where the off puck play is the main facet of his game, that could be a concern. It hasn’t stopped players like Point or Marner from becoming great defensive players, but he will need to adjust the way in which he operates in small space, improving on stick play and having to rely less on body on body. It’s a small detail, but I don’t think it’s an unwarranted criticism to remark that his slight frame could cause some issues given his play style.

TSN just posted a YT video calling Martone a “Potential 1st overall pick.

Martone is not in Hagens’ class, end of story.

I agree that Hagens is better than Martone, and my personal opinion is that he’s the safest pick if a team decides to pick forward. But the gap is not such that, especially with how size obsessed NHL GMs (wrongly) are, that Martone’s physical package could lead a few of them down the garden path; wouldn’t be my pick but there are a lot of dinosaurs still around

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Hagens already cemented himself as a 1st overall pick months before the season. He’s done nothing wrong - literally nothing — that would change that. The narrative shifted with Martone lighting up a joke league.

Did you see them head to head in August? Huge disparity in a big game. One guy was beyond sloppy and invisible, the other wasn’t. Flip the script and the narrative would hurt Hagens’ status.

Also, Martone is in his third OHL season with a massive size advantage playing against 16-19 YO dmen with a minor threat of physicality. Put Martone in the NCAA and facing Augustine, Posch, and Slukynsky in the early season, and I guarantee you he’s not padding the stats that make people like yourself think he’s in the conversation. And even still, Hagens is leading Boston College in scoring.

I’ll buy Schaefer going 1OA over Hagens than Martone.

I don’t see how a player can cement himself as the 1st overall before the season starts. At this age, players improve rapidly. You, and others that do rankings, are putting way too much stock into international tournaments. You probably still have Benak listed top 15 if that’s the case (like most early lists did). Hagens also played with the same exact teammates all year before the tournament and he still had similar numbers to Martone.

I bet Martone would do really well in the NCAA. He is far more skilled than the average NCAA player and has the physical frame to play against older competition. The OHL is a good league. We aren’t talking about a player in the QMJHL or BCHL. If you put Martone on that BC power play, he’d probably have the same type of numbers. Most players cannot do what Martone is currently doing in the OHL. He’s a great talent.

I’m not against Hagens. I think he’s a good player. Hagens provides a lot when he is on the ice but so does Martone. Matthew Schaffer, Michael Misa, and even Victor Eklund are also great players who continue to show a ton of growth in their game. I still think it’s crazy for someone who evaluates prospects to just say that the OHL is a joke league (especially when almost 40 players were taken from the OHL last year alone.)

 

[kyle44]

Hagens already cemented himself as a 1st overall pick months before the season. He’s done nothing wrong - literally nothing — that would change that. The narrative shifted with Martone lighting up a joke league.

Did you see them head to head in August? Huge disparity in a big game. One guy was beyond sloppy and invisible, the other wasn’t. Flip the script and the narrative would hurt Hagens’ status.

Also, Martone is in his third OHL season with a massive size advantage playing against 16-19 YO dmen with a minor threat of physicality. Put Martone in the NCAA and facing Augustine, Posch, and Slukynsky in the early season, and I guarantee you he’s not padding the stats that make people like yourself think he’s in the conversation. And even still, Hagens is leading Boston College in scoring.

I’ll buy Schaefer going 1OA over Hagens than Martone.

Man, your bias is showing more and more by the day. I don't see how anyone can view your rankings and perspectives as being even the slightest bit objective based on what I see you espouse on this board daily. You take every and any opportunity to bash Hockey Canada, TSN, and the CHL at large, and downplay the achievements of Canadian players.

 

[JotAlan]

Had assists on both of BC's goals tonight. Continues to rip up the NCAA with 1+9=10 points in 6 games. Shooting 6%, so the goals totals will normalize. He's also 57.5% in the face-off dot.

and 16 shots, while Smith was 4+4=8, 17 shots and 46.7% in the face-off.
Can we say that Hagens is much better than Smith? Could he be fighting with Fantilli-Carlsson for second place in 2023?

 

[coooldude]

and 16 shots, while Smith was 4+4=8, 17 shots and 46.7% in the face-off.
Can we say that Hagens is much better than Smith? Could he be fighting with Fantilli-Carlsson for second place in 2023?

For sure he's better than Smith.

I'm just some guy, but I think he would have been in the conversation for 2, however, for my money, Carlsson was the choice and Smith/Fantilli closer in the long run. I'm also biased but I would take Celebrini 2 in 2023. Hagens is awesome though, he could definitely solidify himself by June.

 

[jj cale]

McKenzie used a scout quote saying Hagens’ size was a concern, which was always bullshit, and Button recently pushed Martone for 1OA, which is BS as well. Both are Canadian, both are in the media, and both work for TSN.

TSN just posted a YT video calling Martone a “Potential 1st overall pick.

Martone is not in Hagens’ class, end of story.

But he is a potential first overall pick, Hagen going number 1 isn't set in stone yet.

You are trying to make it sound like they are lying.

If they had said Steve Kourianos thinks he is a potential first overall pick then I would agree they are lying, because you clearly think hagens is untouchable in that position. But that is just your opinion.

 

[newmanager]

The issue is comparing players born at different times of the year. Some players are going to come out as winners and others as losers due to something they have zero control over.

Do you have some actual mathematic formula for comparing them or is it just that the players born June 1-September 15 become winners and those born September 16-December 31 are losers? Because that’s what this argument amounts to.

My belief is that it should be a talking point, but not in a way of comparing players. It should be used to consider players on their own merits.

If you get a situation like Jack Quinn, who was 4 days too young for the 2019 draft, it’s fair to ask about his age. He would’ve been a late round pick if he was a few days older. Pops off with an amazing draft season. But at the same time, he’s since shown that he deserved his draft slot, so being old for your draft and popping off at the right time in relation to the draft doesn’t actually always prove a cautionary tale.

I think of an opposite example of how to use it like Filip Chytil. Was talked about as maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder, at best, for much of his draft season. Yet, his play took an upward turn throughout the season. Still wasn’t putting up like obvious first round accomplishments, but scouts saw the arc his progression was on and he kept rising. His September 5th birthday is another feather in that cap. Not to say it made him better or worse, but it’s a data point to prove the theory that he was a deserved riser and picking him higher than people thought would age well. In hindsight, this has worked out. He was underdrafted. This is exactly how you use the birthdate of a player correctly.

You're partly right here but just factoring in age isn't gonna cut it for projecting accurately. Some kids are physically mature by the age of 14 while others are still growing at 21. That's where one of the advantages of seeing these kids in person throughout the season gets its value.
There's no formula to adjust for age but it's always one of many considerations when attempting to project accurately.

I actually did do a study on the impact of age on hockey players success back in 1987. I was coaching a Bantam AAA team at the time and noticed the distribution in the AAA league was skewed to the early months. I expanded to include Major Junior and NHL distribution and the results somewhat mirrored the younger age groups results to a bit of a lesser degree. There has been countless studies done on age/sports success and if you just Google it you'll see that the distribution is still somewhat skewed to early birth months. The age question isn't only apparent in sports success as studies have shown that kids that are the oldest in their school classes growing up have a fairly good success rate in education and employment. I know of families that planned on having their kids born early in the year just because of this uneven distribution in success rates. Older kids aren't being favored that causes this result but its mostly just the physical advantage that give them a leg up on the younger kids.

 

[GAGLine]

and 16 shots, while Smith was 4+4=8, 17 shots and 46.7% in the face-off.
Can we say that Hagens is much better than Smith? Could he be fighting with Fantilli-Carlsson for second place in 2023?

Smith was in his D+1 year when he put up those numbers. Hagens is in his draft year. It's not really a fair comparison.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Man, your bias is showing more and more by the day. I don't see how anyone can view your rankings and perspectives as being even the slightest bit objective based on what I see you espouse on this board daily. You take every and any opportunity to bash Hockey Canada, TSN, and the CHL at large, and downplay the achievements of Canadian players.

I mean you can't down play the achievements of Canadian hockey players, our country produces the best players in the world and I don't see that changing. and he called the ohl a joke league I stopped reading lol, just shows his lack of knowledge. the OHL is superior to the NCAA and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Man, your bias is showing more and more by the day. I don't see how anyone can view your rankings and perspectives as being even the slightest bit objective based on what I see you espouse on this board daily. You take every and any opportunity to bash Hockey Canada, TSN, and the CHL at large, and downplay the achievements of Canadian players.

Steve's the analog to Dominance.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Smith was in his D+1 year when he put up those numbers. Hagens is in his draft year. It's not really a fair comparison.

It's absolutely a fair comparison. They both entered the NCAA directly after finishing their U18 seasons with their NTDP age group.

That said, Hagens is obviously a step up from Smith as a prospect. On-puck game is somewhat comparable, but Hagens' off-puck game is much, much better than Smith's.

 

[Dominance]

Steve's the analog to Dominance.

Right on. Difference being that I do not pretend at being some impartial scout with any kind of real authority on the trajectories of the prospects discussed here, of course.

Proclaiming Hagens as the God-given 1OA - regardless of whether he plays a single game this year, much less how he plays - should be the death knell on that bozo’s credibility as a “scout” in any sense of the term around here.

 

[Fyodorov]

I mean you can't down play the achievements of Canadian hockey players, our country produces the best players in the world and I don't see that changing. and he called the ohl a joke league I stopped reading lol, just shows his lack of knowledge. the OHL is superior to the NCAA and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

ah **** here we go again.gif