Value of: Saros

[TageGod]

1st UPL Rosen. Two firsts and a young goalie who still has potential. You can have Krebs instead of UPL if you prefer. But the trade is two seasons now instead of three when LA made the offer.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Well I haven't seen that interview. Yes he has said he is looking for a #1 center but I didn't get the context that it meant this year in order to be competitive, more in the order of we need one and need to find him, no matter the situation.

I do however agree that what he does between now and the draft will tell us where he is really heading. He definitely isn't going to find anything in this free agent pool to be anything more than scratching to be on the bubble.

I mean, I think he talks about being competitive in basically EVERY interview. He has had 4 or 5 really lengthy detailed ones now (which is kind of mind-blowing for us as Preds fans, we are used to approximately one of those per YEAR from Poile, not this kind of volume that Trotz is making himself available for). I'm sure you've seen most of them. Most of us "regulars" have.

"Scratching to be on the bubble" is very much a legitimate option, though, and I think that's where we ultimately go. While drafting, developing, integrating, etc. And that's not "rebuilding". He openly objects to that label.

I think the last interview on June 2, in the wake of the Brunette hiring, while actually much shorter than some of the others, pretty much captures most of it.



Especially in the 2nd half. This is a much shorter one than others. He's looking for deals, he's looking to sign free agents, he thinks the team can make the playoffs. While at the same time acknowledging the overall process and risks, the reliance on the high-paid veterans bouncing back, etc.

But like you say, we'll see in the next 2 weeks what the plan truly is, anyway. Or how it comes together, rather. Of course, it will then take many more months to see if things unfold on the ice as hoped. But, especially in our division where other teams are more truly and openly "rebuilding", I am definitely optimistic of a playoff appearance. I think that's my main takeaway from the sheer volume of what Trotz has been saying. He has a clean slate. He's "open for business". Even he doesn't know exactly where that will take him. So he is kind of speaking of ALL the potentials that are out there when people ask him questions. I think overall, that's the key, that he recognizes there are a lot of paths forward, and while "targets of opportunity" may arise to help accelerate that path, there are also fallbacks of "sound strategy" that he is also ready for.

To me, this is kind of the "perfect approach". You can't truly know what is going to be possible. But you have to be ready for all the possibilites that can advance you towards your goal. And so, when he has these hour-long interviews, it ALL comes out on the plate. And then individual listeners may tend to take home the bits and pieces that are closest to their own hearts... but... in reality, if you really absorb everything he's saying, it's not that narrowly defined at all.

Imagine he signs a decent UFA winger and a "culture" D like Mayfield. Those are the types of moves that are clearly within his expressed operating paradigm. Is that "rebuilding"? I don't think so. I think that's "solidfying" the existing lineup to help try to make the playoffs. But he also knows he might not be able to make those desired signings. It's ALL on the table.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

1st UPL Rosen. Two firsts and a young goalie who still has potential. You can have Krebs instead of UPL if you prefer. But the trade is two seasons now instead of three when LA made the offer.

To me, this isn't in the ballpark. Rosen is a nice enough little player, and a mid-1st will be another nice piece... but... there isn't the blue-chip home-run quality piece we need here.

And don't get me wrong... based on the existing history of NHL goalie trades, it's a very strong offer, almost precedent-setting, really. I'm not trying to knock the assets offered. I'm just saying instead, that we really need something EVEN STRONGER, in order to move Saros.

Which is why I also default to saying "Saros is not available". Because it makes no sense for any team to offer more than that. You just sign a UFA veteran and roll with Levi and you're doing fine. You don't need to trade MORE for Saros. That's the same for EVERY team out there on the goalie market. Teams aren't going to pay what it would take, for valid reasons, so it's better to just say "Saros is not available".

 

[Djp]

To me, this isn't in the ballpark. Rosen is a nice enough little player, and a mid-1st will be another nice piece... but... there isn't the blue-chip home-run quality piece we need here.

And don't get me wrong... based on the existing history of NHL goalie trades, it's a very strong offer, almost precedent-setting, really. I'm not trying to knock the assets offered. I'm just saying instead, that we really need something EVEN STRONGER, in order to move Saros.

Which is why I also default to saying "Saros is not available". Because it makes no sense for any team to offer more than that. You just sign a UFA veteran and roll with Levi and you're doing fine. You don't need to trade MORE for Saros. That's the same for EVERY team out there on the goalie market. Teams aren't going to pay what it would take, for valid reasons, so it's better to just say "Saros is not available".

With just 2 yrs left you will not get a top 10 pick nor blue chip prospect.

a future 1st traded will likely be top 10 protected

 

[pegcity]

The offers on this site for Hellebuyck have been less than ideal.

So on this site, probably a second round pick and a B prospect.

In reality, a first round pick and a good prospect.

 

[TageGod]

The offers on this site for Hellebuyck have been less than ideal.

So on this site, probably a second round pick and a B prospect.

In reality, a first round pick and a good prospect.

Knock on Helle is that he is not a good off structure goalie. Doesn't that make him a poor goalie? I have no interest really.

To me, this isn't in the ballpark. Rosen is a nice enough little player, and a mid-1st will be another nice piece... but... there isn't the blue-chip home-run quality piece we need here.

And don't get me wrong... based on the existing history of NHL goalie trades, it's a very strong offer, almost precedent-setting, really. I'm not trying to knock the assets offered. I'm just saying instead, that we really need something EVEN STRONGER, in order to move Saros.

Which is why I also default to saying "Saros is not available". Because it makes no sense for any team to offer more than that. You just sign a UFA veteran and roll with Levi and you're doing fine. You don't need to trade MORE for Saros. That's the same for EVERY team out there on the goalie market. Teams aren't going to pay what it would take, for valid reasons, so it's better to just say "Saros is not available".

That is fair but this team can compete this year and we can't assume Levi will be as good as last year from the start. I figure Sabres will land somewhere with a decent to good Journeyman goalie by the end of this.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Blue chip can't miss prospects or top 5 picks don't get moved for goalies. Saros will either stay in Nashville, leave for nothing or be traded next year for significantly less.

 

[pegcity]

Knock on Helle is that he is not a good off structure goalie. Doesn't that make him a poor goalie? I have no interest really.

That is fair but this team can compete this year and we can't assume Levi will be as good as last year from the start. I figure Sabres will land somewhere with a decent to good Journeyman goalie by the end of this.

Tage, he's won a vezina and nominated two other times. Only 10 goalies have done this since the early 80s.

Believing that he is not a good goalie is factually incorrect, based on his history compared to other goalies.

If you prefer advanced stats, Hellebuyck has the second high WAR rating over the past 5 seasons. Not for goalies, but for all players (behind McDavid). True story.

 

[TheBeard]

Blue chip can't miss prospects or top 5 picks don't get moved for goalies. Saros will either stay in Nashville, leave for nothing or be traded next year for significantly less.

Well, how often do blue chip goalies in their prime get moved?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

With just 2 yrs left you will not get a top 10 pick nor blue chip prospect.

a future 1st traded will likely be top 10 protected

Precisely. This is why I feel it is just better to say "Saros is not available". Our pricetag is high for good reason, but it is not something any team is ever going to pay, so I don't understand why other fans seem to keep bringing it up. You might as well be bidding on Sorokhin or Shesterkin or Oettinger, and nobody is making threads about those guys.

 

[Djp]

Precisely. This is why I feel it is just better to say "Saros is not available". Our pricetag is high for good reason, but it is not something any team is ever going to pay, so I don't understand why other fans seem to keep bringing it up. You might as well be bidding on Sorokhin or Shesterkin or Oettinger, and nobody is making threads about those guys.

A young goalie who has 3-4 yrs of team conyptrol would return more.

at this point anyone with 2 yrs to UFA Carrie’s a lesser value That you dream you think a players worth.

a more likely return if traded around the draft…

contracted player ( not a cap dump) + decent prospect/ ELC but not a blue chip, and a low 1st/ high 2nd (20-40) + possible added pick/ prospect depending on the other items.
Nashville retains for 2 yrs would increase return.

when Miller got traded at the deadline in a multiplayer trade it was for Halak, a 1st, B decent prospect( A 2nd round drafted player the year before), and a 3rd that could have gone higher If conditions met
Stewart-Ott swap also part of it.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

A young goalie who has 3-4 yrs of team conyptrol would return more.

at this point anyone with 2 yrs to UFA Carrie’s a lesser value That you dream you think a players worth.

a more likely return if traded around the draft…

contracted player ( not a cap dump) + decent prospect/ ELC but not a blue chip, and a low 1st/ high 2nd (20-40) + possible added pick/ prospect depending on the other items.
Nashville retains for 2 yrs would increase return.

when Miller got traded at the deadline in a multiplayer trade it was for Halak, a 1st, B decent prospect( A 2nd round drafted player the year before), and a 3rd that could have gone higher If conditions met
Stewart-Ott swap also part of it.

I don't really understand what you are saying. Maybe you are missing the point? We get all that, hence why Saros is actually "not available".

 

[Sweetpotato]

Well, how often do blue chip goalies in their prime get moved?

Not often. It doesn't change the fact that a recent 2nd oa pick or comparable asset won't be involved if Saros is moved. Whether he's moved or not I have no idea but I can say with certainty if he is Nemec, Clarke, etc off the top of my head won't be involved.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Not often. It doesn't change the fact that a recent 2nd oa pick or comparable asset won't be involved if Saros is moved. Whether he's moved or not I have no idea but I can say with certainty if he is Nemec, Clarke, etc off the top of my head won't be involved.

Every Preds fan in the world agrees with that. It is probably fair to say EVERY fan in the world agrees with that.

Which, again, comes down to why this thread simply should not exist in the first place.

 

[TheBeard]

Not often. It doesn't change the fact that a recent 2nd oa pick or comparable asset won't be involved if Saros is moved. Whether he's moved or not I have no idea but I can say with certainty if he is Nemec, Clarke, etc off the top of my head won't be involved.

I mean Clarke was an 8th OA, and I do remember a time when Cory Schneider was traded for 9.

 

[jumb0]

I don't really understand what you are saying. Maybe you are missing the point? We get all that, hence why Saros is actually "not available".

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Ha. I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the reason for posting that, when we sailed past all that sort of thing LOOOONG ago.

 

[Sweetpotato]

I mean Clarke was an 8th OA, and I do remember a time when Cory Schneider was traded for 9.

9oa was a draft pick. Brandt Clarke has done nothing but increase his value since being drafted to the point it's well known there isn't a realistic situation where he'd be included in any deal.

Every Preds fan in the world agrees with that. It is probably fair to say EVERY fan in the world agrees with that.

Which, again, comes down to why this thread simply should not exist in the first place.

Not sure I believe it shouldn't exist, just that no Nashville fan will have any interest in the proposals in here.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

The Devils would pay a solid price to acquire Saros.

Alexander Holtz
Vitek Vanecek
Seamus Casey
2024 1st round pick

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The Devils would pay a solid price to acquire Saros.

Alexander Holtz
Vitek Vanecek
Seamus Casey
2024 1st round pick

Still "pass". Still there isn't the single bluechip commodity we would need. Quantity won't do it. This is our Best Player. Who we expect to have around for the next 7-9 years.

"Saros isn't available".

 

[Soundgarden]

The Devils would pay a solid price to acquire Saros.

Alexander Holtz
Vitek Vanecek
Seamus Casey
2024 1st round pick

Holtz is a winger and Vanecek is a goalie, and we already have two 1sts this year and in 25.

I'd rather have Saros and Forsberg, Duchene, Tomasino, Evangelista, Kemell and Svechkov than Vanecek and Forsberg, Duchene, Tomasino, Evangelista, Kemell, Svechkov and Hotlz.

A deal with NJ makes sense though, Saros is a top 5 goalie and Nemec isn't on the roster for them, would be a great way to improve their young roster.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Still "pass". Still there isn't the single bluechip commodity we would need. Quantity won't do it. This is our Best Player. Who we expect to have around for the next 7-9 years.

"Saros isn't available".

Fair, but Holtz and Casey are as close to bluechip prospects as you can get. Bluechip prospects are very, very, very rarely traded. Especially not for goaltenders.

Holtz is a winger and Vanecek is a goalie, and we already have two 1sts this year and in 25.

I'd rather have Saros and Forsberg, Duchene, Tomasino, Evangelista, Kemell and Svechkov than Vanecek and Forsberg, Duchene, Tomasino, Evangelista, Kemell, Svechkov and Hotlz.

A deal with NJ makes sense though, Saros is a top 5 goalie and Nemec isn't on the roster for them, would be a great way to improve their young roster.

Nemec is pretty much as untouchable as the Hughes brothers and Hischier to be honest.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Fair, but Holtz and Casey are as close to bluechip prospects as you can get. Bluechip prospects are very, very, very rarely traded. Especially not for goaltenders.

But I hope by now, other fans are getting that we aren't looking for what has "rarely rarely" ever happened in past goalie trades? Elite goalies that a team has in hand for a decade simply DON'T get traded. This is us with Saros. I don't think it has EVER happened? There is always some other factor involved. Just go get Hellebuyck, then, and pay him. He actively wants out, so Winnipeg will trade him. There is always an option like this, which is why the other guys NEVER get traded.

No Preds fan is "asking" for the bluechip prospects. We are just saying, hey man, if you really want Saros THAT badly, that's what it is going to take. It's like any team coming to Edmonton and asking for Draisatl or McDavid. They aren't actually going to trade them. But if you come asking, well, that's on you... a "stupid high" ask is what you are going to have to deal with.

Hellebuyck is as good as Saros, and he's actually "available". You just have to go chase him instead.

 

[TheBeard]

Fair, but Holtz and Casey are as close to bluechip prospects as you can get. Bluechip prospects are very, very, very rarely traded. Especially not for goaltenders.

For apparently "blue chip" prospects, you Devils fans sure love dangling them in trades.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

But I hope by now, other fans are getting that we aren't looking for what has "rarely rarely" ever happened in past goalie trades? Elite goalies that a team has in hand for a decade simply DON'T get traded. This is us with Saros. I don't think it has EVER happened? There is always some other factor involved. Just go get Hellebuyck, then, and pay him. He actively wants out, so Winnipeg will trade him. There is always an option like this, which is why the other guys NEVER get traded.

No Preds fan is "asking" for the bluechip prospects. We are just saying, hey man, if you really want Saros THAT badly, that's what it is going to take. It's like any team coming to Edmonton and asking for Draisatl or McDavid. They aren't actually going to trade them. But if you come asking, well, that's on you... a "stupid high" ask is what you are going to have to deal with.

Hellebuyck is as good as Saros, and he's actually "available". You just have to go chase him instead.

The 2 year age gap between Saros and Hellebuyck makes a massive difference for the Devils in my opinion. I would much, much prefer Saros over Hellebuyck.

For apparently "blue chip" prospects, you Devils fans sure love dangling them in trades.

Because I don't think you understand the depth of the Devils entire organization. Our best players at the NHL level are between 21-24 years old and we have a top 5 prospect system in the NHL, so we have a lot of expendable pieces. One of the reasons Devils were able to outbid all other teams to acquire Timo Meier.