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Confirmed with Link: Sandin to Washington for Erik Gustafsson and 1st (BOS)

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I'm not particularly surprised Sandin is racking up points right now, he's getting prime usage on a bad team with some decent talent. Sandin himself is very good offensively so he can slide into the QB role on PP1 and do fine there. The issue was always defensively and if we think he could be a top 4 on a contender. I didn't see that in his future and management didn't either, he doesn't have the size or mobility that would make me comfortable with him out there against the likes of TB/BOS in a playoff series

With all that said, I didn't like the value of the trade at the time and I still don't particularly like it. The 1st is alright I guess, but Gustafsson is useless. He will be gone in a couple months and we aren't going to use him all that much unless we get injuries. So you're back in the same spot you were in 2018 with a late first rounder

Others have mentioned it, but I would've tried to target a hockey trade for a young forward in a bit of a similar situation. Maybe someone like Hoglander?
 
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They better flip the Pick they got for Sandin into something more tangible for next year. Sandin even pre trade is about the best you can hope for from the 28th pick so why are they just going backwards 5 years.

This shouldn't have been a deadline deal it's a draft day deal.
 
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Based on what went down in the summer, where Sandin basically was expecting to be handed minutes and pay commensurate with a role he had not earned, the team probably rightly judged that the player wouldn’t respond well to having been pushed down the lineup by the McCabe acquisition.

Either that or Sandin may have formally requested a trade after McCabe was acquired.
 
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We saw him play over 50 regular season games plus playoff games. He’s not good enough to be on a contender but he would be great on an up and coming team. The timing was just off for this guy and his role on the team.
Luckily Topi is coming along when the leafs likely have an overhaul in a couple of years.
 
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Easily my least favorite deal, especially since we did not move Gus and will lose him to UFA, as well as the decision to keep Holl and not solidify our RHD situation (Schenn is a feel good story but he is not a Top 4RHD).

I still expect that Gio is going to trend downwards as soon as next season and that I would have made sense to have kept Sandin. I can easily see this as a regrettable move as soon as next season.

Having said that, I like getting a 1st round pick back to either use or for trade purposes. As well, it really does seem that the relationship soured with Sandin this summer over his contract demands and while no way to know for sure, but maybe his attitude wasn't the greatest.

McCabe is a good addition and if Sandin wasn't prepared to compete and take the Top 4 LHD role he felt he deserved, then maybe this was an ounce of prevention vs a pound of cure situation. There was no reason that he couldn't compete and drop McCabe to the 3LHD spot, if he deserved it. Then again, Keefe's decisions around who plays where doesn't always seem to be based on merit of play, which is maddening for fans, so I can't imagine how it makes the younger players feel too.

Honestly, my preference would have been to keep him and use him in a trade for a 2-4RHD or an upgrade on LW if needed. I think he would have had more value in the summer and trade at the Draft, but it feels like there was a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't/won't know about that contributed to the decision.

Kid has no shortage of confidence and should do well in Washington, with an opportunity available that he just didn't have here, at least to not be handed to him anyways. It feels like he also blew it here a bit, with how he went about his negotiations, when he really hadn't proven himself yet, for really what will represent pocket change to him when compared to his career earnings.

I wish him well but hope this deal works out better for us than it is thus far.
 
The McCabe deal, the Rielly extension and Sandin being more than a 3rd pairing defender made this trade inevitable eventually. He's built to eventually become a defender in Rielly's exact role. He isn't an ideal 3rd pairing defender for the playoffs. Schenn is closer to that although definitely a low rent version.
 
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They forgive William Nylander for sitting out months for a contract but can't forgive Sandin for maximizing his contract value? Doesn't pass the sniff test to me.
 
Personally I would have rather kept Sandin over this deal but at the end of the day, loosing Sandin isn’t the end of the world.

He’s off to a good start in Washington, good for him. He’s definitely a good NHL player but IMO I’d rather have McCabe for 3 playoff runs at 2 million per.

I do see Gio probably becoming our 7th dman next year, his game seems to have fallen as of late.

McCabe - Liljegren
Brodie - Timmins
Rielly - ________

We’re basically back in square one this off-season trying to find Rielly a defensive partner.
 
Isaac Nootin said:
This isn't solely the GM, but more so on the coach that wouldn't play him. He's doing the same to Liljegren as we speak.
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Liljegren won’t see ice in the playoffs which is ridiculous as he’s been one of their best defensive D all season. Better than Rielly and Holl that’s for sure.

There’s absolutely zero accountability on this team. If you’re highly paid you play no matter what.

Jon Cooper isn’t afraid to bench star players.
 
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A good start in Washington shouldn't be a huge surprise. Lots of players come out like gangbusters after they're traded. But we all knew he wasn't going to get that same opportunity here, long term. And even when he did play more minutes or a bigger role, he never shined much.

A few good games doesn't change my opinion on this trade yet. The Leafs recouped some needed picks after bringing in better players. Sandin wasn't progressing like he should, and was expendable over the next few years. No biggie.
 
I think acquiring Timmins made Sandin a little more expendable given both are offensive defenceman yet Timmins made a bigger impact offensively in a lot less games played.
 
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Sandin has great offensive skills, think's the game at a very high level and is extremely physical for a smaller player.

If put in a prime offensive role, he will certainly put up points and be a very useful player for many teams.

The big question is his actual defensive ability and if there are real questions around this part of his game.

He had 1 goal and 1 assist last night which is great but I flip on the highlights and halfway through the first period, Villardi grabs the puck in his own zone, skates it through the neutral zone right to the Capitals blueline and Sandin has good defensive position on him. Sandin slightly jumps forward to make a play and Vilardi pulls it right around him, gains inside position and forces Sandin to take a penalty. This is the kind of play that really cant happen and can really sink your team in a big game.

I was a fan of the kid ever since drafted but it really looked like the coaching staff just didn't trust him defensively and was shown in his deployment.
 
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leafsfan5 said:
I'm not particularly surprised Sandin is racking up points right now, he's getting prime usage on a bad team with some decent talent. Sandin himself is very good offensively so he can slide into the QB role on PP1 and do fine there. The issue was always defensively and if we think he could be a top 4 on a contender. I didn't see that in his future and management didn't either, he doesn't have the size or mobility that would make me comfortable with him out there against the likes of TB/BOS in a playoff series

With all that said, I didn't like the value of the trade at the time and I still don't particularly like it. The 1st is alright I guess, but Gustafsson is useless. He will be gone in a couple months and we aren't going to use him all that much unless we get injuries. So you're back in the same spot you were in 2018 with a late first rounder

Others have mentioned it, but I would've tried to target a hockey trade for a young forward in a bit of a similar situation. Maybe someone like Hoglander?
Click to expand...
The point production now does seem lucky and unsustainable, but he was also getting pretty unlucky with not producing more as a Leaf given how much he was creating. It might not be a guarantee that he'll develop as a top 4 caliber defenseman on a contender but I don't really see any reason to strongly doubt it. When Keefe was forced to play him in top 4 minutes after Rielly/Brodie were injured, he played great and the team frankly never looked better defensively. In his minutes against elite competition this year, he's had 54% of high danger chances and 58.8 GF%. Against middle competition, he's had 55.1 high danger% and 61.9 GF%. Just because Keefe didn't trust him enough doesn't mean he couldn't handle those minutes, it just frankly makes Keefe look dumb. He's doing the same with Liljegren.

And frankly, the level of offense he brings as a defenseman can't be replaced by anyone else we have. He's an elite playmaker who elevates everyone else on the ice.

Matthews with Sandin: 55 CF% | 69.6 GF% | 60.4 xGF%
Matthews without Sandin: 52 CF% | 65.6 GF% | 56.1 xGF%

Marner with Sandin: 56.3 CF% | 54.5 GF% | 61.2 xGF%
Marner without Sandin: 51.8 CF% | 63.8 GF% | 52.9 xGF%

Nylander with Sandin: 53.9 CF% | 72.7 GF% | 56.16 xGF%
Nylander without Sandin: 51.9 CF% | 61 GF% | 55.5 xGF%

Tavares with Sandin: 53.9 CF% | 59.1 GF% | 58 xGF%
Tavares without Sandin: 51.7 CF% | 55.8 GF% | 52.7 xGF%

This isn't me trying to say Sandin is carrying those guys, but it isn't a coincidence that all of our top players do better with Sandin than our other defensemen either. When you have a skilled player with such high IQ that meshes so well with all of your best players and plays with physicality and emotion, you just don't trade them unless a team makes an offer that's too tempting to pass up. A late 1st round pick isn't that
 
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I mean, a lot of fans around here have been hard on the core young players as being entitled and whatnot through the failures of the last 6-7 years.

Here Sandin held out because he wanted a guaranteed roster spot and role.

That being said Dubas moving Sandin is another commitment to a core that’s hasn’t succeeded. The Leafs would be hard pressed to have both Rielly and Sandin in the top 4. He made the decision to commit to Rielly instead of looking at revamping the blue line, moving Mo, and keeping Sandin is your primary offensive D-man.

Dubas’ downfall, as I’ve said, would be his unwavering commitment to his core players.
 
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Sandin is still learning the game.
He's played around 150 NHL games, and it takes over 200-300 games to really know how good a defenseman can be.
If he had over 700 games and still didn't know how to defend a two-on-one I'd question his ability to learn and grow into the role.
 
ULF_55 said:
Sandin is still learning the game.
He's played around 150 NHL games, and it takes over 200-300 games to really know how good a defenseman can be.
If he had over 700 games and still didn't know how to defend a two-on-one I'd question his ability to learn and grow into the role.
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700 games? What a arbitrary number.

:sarcasm:
 
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BertCorbeau said:
I mean, a lot of fans around here have been hard on the core young players as being entitled and whatnot through the failures of the last 6-7 years.

Here Sandin held out because he wanted a guaranteed roster spot and role.

That being said Dubas moving Sandin is another commitment to a core that’s hasn’t succeeded. The Leafs would be hard pressed to have both Rielly and Sandin in the top 4. He made the decision to commit to Rielly instead of looking at revamping the blue line, moving Mo, and keeping Sandin is your primary offensive D-man.

Dubas’ downfall, as I’ve said, would be his unwavering commitment to his core players.
Click to expand...
Sink or swim with this core. Unfortunately it’s looking more and more likely that Dubas will sink.
 
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Sypher04 said:
Based on what went down in the summer, where Sandin basically was expecting to be handed minutes and pay commensurate with a role he had not earned, the team probably rightly judged that the player wouldn’t respond well to having been pushed down the lineup by the McCabe acquisition.

Either that or Sandin may have formally requested a trade after McCabe was acquired.
Click to expand...
That's juat it. The Leafs do a very good job of keeping most things internal.

It's very possible Sandin just didn't like the writing on the wall.

Whether or not this ends up being a good trade depends on playoff success this year and what the pick turns into 5 years from now.

Early returns for Washington are great. Good for Sandin
 
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He couldn’t crack the lineup. Period. He was terrible in the playoffs. He’s soft as butter.

We have a 1st now

Smart move
 
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