Sam Rosen was right (Historical impact of Rangers' roster moves)

[haohmaru]

You obviously haven't watched him very much this year. He's a shell of what he used to be.

Actually it was McKenzie who stated the Isles had better offers from Minnesota and the Leafs, but he refused to retain salary in the deal. Sorry to burst your bubble.

McKenzie over Snow? Mmmkay. I'll stick with Snow who said, pretty emphatically, that he took the best deal that he got over a hockey writer/media guy.

Vanek's production (points per game) is actually better this year than it is over his career.

Vanek also had the 3rd most points in the league from 12/17 - 1/21

And I haven't watched him much?

 

[haveandare]

Well, the other side to this is that the NYR have a nightmare summer coming up with UFA's and RFA's. I don't think we got back as much as we could've for MDZ (in a year other than this) but we got back a dependable guy with a decent contract. Callahan at 6 x 6 would've been an anchor on the cap and we got back a better forward at a lower price and another UFA contract gone.

We've got Brassard (RFA) Boyle (UFA) Pouliot (UFA) Zooks (RFA) Moore (UFA) Carcillo (UFA) Kreider (RFA) Stralman (UFA) Diaz (UFA) Falk (RFA) J. Moore (RFA)

That's still a ****ing nightmare.

How is that a nightmare? None of the UFAs are huge cogs or players who will demand huge raises except maybe Stralman, and there's been talk that a D-man from Hartford will likely be ready next year, and Klein was just acquired.

Of the RFAs, Brass, Zucc, and Kreider are key. Zucc will deserve a big raise. Brass isn't playing very far ahead of his career performance up until now, and Kreider, despite having a real hot patch, isn't really setting the world on fire enough that I expect him to have the team over a barrel as an RFA.

I'm more worried about Staal the year after than I am about all of these guys combined. All the important pieces are RFAs for the most part.

 

[Trxjw]

McKenzie over Snow? Mmmkay. I'll stick with Snow who said, pretty emphatically, that he took the best deal that he got over a hockey writer/media guy.

Vanek's production (points per game) is actually better this year than it is over his career.

Vanek also had the 3rd most points in the league from 12/17 - 1/21

And I haven't watched him much?

I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about Gaborik considering I never said a bad word about Vanek. Guess not.

I'll take McKenzie's word over Snow's. Unless you think Snow is going to come out and say "Yeah, I took the lesser deal. Sorry for screwing up... again."

 

[haohmaru]

How is that a nightmare? None of the UFAs are huge cogs or players who will demand huge raises except maybe Stralman, and there's been talk that a D-man from Hartford will likely be ready next year, and Klein was just acquired.

Of the RFAs, Brass, Zucc, and Kreider are key. Zucc will deserve a big raise. Brass isn't playing very far ahead of his career performance up until now, and Kreider, despite having a real hot patch, isn't really setting the world on fire enough that I expect him to have the team over a barrel as an RFA.

I'm more worried about Staal the year after than I am about all of these guys combined. All the important pieces are RFAs for the most part.

They've got 10 NHL skaters signed for next year and 17 million in cap space. Zooks will end up with 60ish points. You have to figure 3-3.5/per for him as he already took a huge discount this year. Brassard made 3.2 million this year and will likely command a raise. Those two players are going to eat up 7 million.

12 skaters and 10 million cap space left. Kreiders on an ELC @ $800,000. Have to figure he's getting 2M+ per on a bridge.

13 skaters, 8 million cap space left. That's a lot (5-6) of spots to fill on 1.6M or less worth of contracts per player.

Unless Richards is bought out (and what center are we going to get to replace him with? the C UFA market is abysmal next year), then say goodbye to Boyle, Stralman, J. Moore, and Pouliot.

 

[haohmaru]

I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about Gaborik considering I never said a bad word about Vanek. Guess not.

I'll take McKenzie's word over Snow's. Unless you think Snow is going to come out and say "Yeah, I took the lesser deal. Sorry for screwing up... again."

Your sentence read as if you were talking solely about the Islanders. Yeah, Gaborik is a tough one, he's made of glass. But, if he is finally healthy, he's a threat. The next few weeks will tell us a lot about that.

McKenzie, late February, on Martin St. Louis & the Rangers

"As for the Rangers, they're not about to start giving up draft picks, prospects or young players for a 38-year-old. So the Tampa-NYR fit doesn't appear to be there."

I'll take Snow's word for it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

McKenzie over Snow? Mmmkay. I'll stick with Snow who said, pretty emphatically, that he took the best deal that he got over a hockey writer/media guy.

Vanek's production (points per game) is actually better this year than it is over his career.

Vanek also had the 3rd most points in the league from 12/17 - 1/21

And I haven't watched him much?

Pretty strange that you'd pick the guy with the agenda.

 

[kovazub94]

Why can't people understand that it is wrong to view a trade in a vacuum outside of the context of the team structure and a plan to built a perennial contender? Those of us who are upset with the trade would not argue against bringing a 38 y/o MSL if it was at a discount (given that he put TBL in a corner from a bargaining perspective). But the context here is that the Rangers in the last couple of years gave up a first rounder for Nash, 2 second rounders for Erixon, a second rounder for Clowe, and now another first and at least 2 second rounders in making this trade. I understand discounting a value of one lost pick, however the values that have been moved out here is overwhelming.

 

[True Blue]

My point is that Callahan is an asset, as are draft picks, as is St. Louis. I can base Callahan's trade value based on other trades. Maybe, *MAYBE*, he would've brought back a 2nd and a 5th.

So your "value" is pure conjecture?

Equally, you can't say "St. Louis is a depreciating asset" based on ANYTHING either. He's averaging a point a game and has for years. How do you know he won't next year and the year after that? You don't. Of course St. Louis is an "asset" to the team. Just like picks are, but in a different way.

Yes, I can. How many players can you point to that either maintained their level of play or get better at the age of 39? And then at 40?

Getting one of the top 10 forwards in the game isn't squandering.

No, giving away assets like draft picks is.

It's making your team better. There's nothing indicating St. Louis is slowing down and an argument really can't be made that Callahan is a better forward. He isn't. It's not close.

You make your organization worse by giving away draft picks. And again, name me several players that either maintained their level of play or got better, first at 39 then at 40? My bet is that you can't.

 

[True Blue]

Again, St. Louis is an asset that is likely to re-sign here. This isn't a rental for the short term. He's signed for another year at a better rate than Callahan would've commanded and he's the better player. If this was just for this year and there was no hope in signing him then I'd agree with you. But that's not what this is.

And that is based on what? A hope and a prayer?

 

[True Blue]

and like I said, he's just misguided.

Misguided is a very light way to describe someone whose tenure has consisted of throwing bad money after bad money at free agents, making poor trades, wasting draft picks and someone who has no conception of how important chemistry is to a winning team or an entire organization.

 

[Gardner McKay]

McKenzie over Snow? Mmmkay. I'll stick with Snow who said, pretty emphatically, that he took the best deal that he got over a hockey writer/media guy.

Vanek's production (points per game) is actually better this year than it is over his career.

Vanek also had the 3rd most points in the league from 12/17 - 1/21

And I haven't watched him much?

Snow isn't going to come out and say "Our owner was too cheap to retain salary so instead of getting a better deal for our club and pay extra $$$, I had to take the crappy deal where we shed all of Vanek's salary."

 

[Thirty One]

And that is based on what? A hope and a prayer?

Consider why St. Louis is currently a Rangers and then ask yourself that question. The answer may surprise you.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Misguided is a very light way to describe someone whose tenure has consisted of throwing bad money after bad money at free agents, making poor trades, wasting draft picks and someone who has no conception of how important chemistry is to a winning team or an entire organization.

A blind man with a blind guide dog is misguided. Sather is, at this point, incompetent. Hard to be misguided when you're the one leading.....

 

[True Blue]

Why can't people understand that it is wrong to view a trade in a vacuum outside of the context of the team structure and a plan to built a perennial contender? Those of us who are upset with the trade would not argue against bringing a 38 y/o MSL if it was at a discount (given that he put TBL in a corner from a bargaining perspective). But the context here is that the Rangers in the last couple of years gave up a first rounder for Nash, 2 second rounders for Erixon, a second rounder for Clowe, and now another first and at least 2 second rounders in making this trade. I understand discounting a value of one lost pick, however the values that have been moved out here is overwhelming.

Winner, winner. People are seemingly trying to make this a "Callahan vs. MSL" discussion. The thread is not about that at all.

 

[True Blue]

Consider why St. Louis is currently a Rangers and then ask yourself that question. The answer may surprise you.

That and $1.25 buys you a cup of coffee.

 

[Thirty One]

That and $1.25 buys you a cup of coffee.

What is this supposed to mean?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Consider why St. Louis is currently a Rangers and then ask yourself that question. The answer may surprise you.

Because Steve Yzerman hurt his feelings and Mrs. St. Louis loves the fois gras at Rebecca's ?

 

[Thirty One]

Because Steve Yzerman hurt his feelings and Mrs. St. Louis loves the fois gras at Rebecca's ?

And would you say that makes him more likely or less likely to stay beyond his current deal?

 

[haohmaru]

So your "value" is pure conjecture?

No, it's based on what better pending UFA's brought back in trades. Pay attention.

Yes, I can. How many players can you point to that either maintained their level of play or get better at the age of 39? And then at 40?

Jagr at 42 is having a better year than he did at 41. And 40. And St. Louis is generally considered to be in better shape despite Jagr being a beast about conditioning.

No, giving away assets like draft picks is.

If you don't view St. Louis as an "asset" then you're simply being dishonest.

You make your organization worse by giving away draft picks. And again, name me several players that either maintained their level of play or got better, first at 39 then at 40? My bet is that you can't.

Not if they're for a top 10 player in the world.

I named one that got better at 42. But, again, you're missing the point. St. Louis is hardly the typical 38 year old player and because it isn't commonplace doesn't mean it won't happen. You need to look at the player, not the stats. That draft pick "asset" you're whining about might never see an NHL game. Ever. I'll take a year and a half of MSL production over a 20-30 1st round pick and a 2nd in a really weak draft any day of the week.

 

[haohmaru]

Pretty strange that you'd pick the guy with the agenda.

Over the guy that flat out said it won't happen (but did)? Even if it were the case, the isles deal was SO bad that "better deals were out there" doesn't mean all that much.

 

[BBKers]

Regarding capspace

Below is a possible but hardly plausible look at next years lineup

Richards will most likely be bought out - opening up a whole new can of worms regarding the roster. The cap ceiling may however be lower than what is illustrated below:

FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.000m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
John Moore ($1.700m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,590,000; BONUSES: $1,971,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,510,000

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That and $1.25 buys you a cup of coffee.

Why do you even need receipts for Donuts

Ink and paper do not need to be involved in this transaction

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Why do you even need receipts for Donuts

Ink and paper do not need to be involved in this transaction

R.I.P. Mitch

 

[aufheben]

No, it's based on what better pending UFA's brought back in trades. Pay attention.



Jagr at 42 is having a better year than he did at 41. And 40. And St. Louis is generally considered to be in better shape despite Jagr being a beast about conditioning.



If you don't view St. Louis as an "asset" then you're simply being dishonest.



Not if they're for a top 10 player in the world.

I named one that got better at 42. But, again, you're missing the point. St. Louis is hardly the typical 38 year old player and because it isn't commonplace doesn't mean it won't happen. You need to look at the player, not the stats. That draft pick "asset" you're whining about might never see an NHL game. Ever. I'll take a year and a half of MSL production over a 20-30 1st round pick and a 2nd in a really weak draft any day of the week.

How is he an asset when he has a NMC and he's now on the only team he would go to?

Again, it doesn't matter how much longer he will play, we TRADED for a 1-1/2 of MSL. When we are the only team he wanted to go to, is next contract has nothing to do with the trade. I know you're replying to someone else's question, this last part isn't directed at you.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Why do you even need receipts for Donuts

Ink and paper do not need to be involved in this transaction

I used to do drugs.....I still do, and I used ta too. - Glen Sather