Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Sam Rosen was right (Historical impact of Rangers' roster moves)
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Clown Fiesta
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If the vision is to improve your team, then I guess that's what they did isn't it? You can have the best plan ever and then get an opportunity that you need to jump on.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I think that narrative is a bit overplayed. 61% of the 2013-14 Rangers (weighted by GP) were on the 2011-12 team. For the Bruins, it's 64%.
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
- Mar 19, 2006
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There is a clear plan. It's called.... LUNDQVIST IS THE MAN
That's the plan, so it loosely translates into WIN NOW.
Next years draft picks dont help the LUNDQVIST IS THE MAN PLAN
MSL helps the LITM Plan
That's the plan, so it loosely translates into WIN NOW.
Next years draft picks dont help the LUNDQVIST IS THE MAN PLAN
MSL helps the LITM Plan
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Based on Vanek being worth a questionable prospect and a possible 2nd.
Gaborik got a 2nd and a 3rd.
Both are better rental players.
ChrisKreider20
But y u mad?
I hate the trade to be honest - only because of the picks we are giving up. Giving up a two high pick for a 38 year old is incredibly shortsighted. That being said, I don't understand why anyone would criticize Sather for dealing Callahan. That was the right move. Callahan priced himself off the team. Just because there have been teams that have paid 5.25 for guys like clarkson, there were people overpay for assets. that doesnt make it correct or a right 'comp'. Callahan is worth 5 million max. He is a 2nd line two way forward. Him asking more 6-7 was very foolish, and whatever team pays him that much is even more foolish. The gm who pays that price is the same kind of character that would pay 100x sales for a start-up tech company with no business model in the tech bubble.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
St. Louis isn't a typical 38 year old NHL'er. He just isn't. Through age 25 he played about 75 NHL games. He doesn't have the mileage that most NHL players do at 38. He's barely over 1000 games and he keeps himself in tremendous shape. I doubt he declines much over the next 3 1/2 years.
Don't like losing the 2015 1st, but St. Louis is top 10 fwd in the game.
Her's how I look at the trade:
1)Did mgt improve the product for this year / two /three?
2)Are the current players happier with MSL or would they rather kept the two draft choices?
How much is a middling first round pick truly worth? IF Lundy tanks then the pick could have been valuable.
IS the current team void of youth?
Most seem to be easily replaceable in the free agent market.
1)Did mgt improve the product for this year / two /three?
2)Are the current players happier with MSL or would they rather kept the two draft choices?
How much is a middling first round pick truly worth? IF Lundy tanks then the pick could have been valuable.
IS the current team void of youth?
Most seem to be easily replaceable in the free agent market.
Ex Officer Friendly
Got Nothin To Say
It's pretty obvious picks were at a premium this year. A 3rd and a 5th might be stretching it, but I certainly don't think it's wrong to believe that a 2nd and a 4th/5th would have probably been what he would have fetched.
Better players like Vanek, Gabby and arguably Hemsky, Goc, etc didn't return any 1sts and some, not even 2nds.
I mean Vanek's pick is a conditional second. It could end up just being a middling prospect in Collberg.
The market certainly wasn't a sellers one this year. It was great for buyers though.
That being said, I still think we overpaid. I also think SY didn't have a choice and we should have played hardball. At the very least with that condition on the conditional 1st rounder. Make it win the stanley cup. At least that would be worth it.
Does MSL have NMC/NTC next year? Couldn't TB have traded MSL to ANYBODY next year? If this is true than it punches major holes in the stance that we traded too much "B/c NYR was his only option"
If MSL plays at his current level until he's 41/42 then it was a move for the future. Unless 4 years down the road isn't the future suddenly. 4 years from now a lot of guys we have now will be old and declining and there is no guarantee that
1st-2013
2nd-2013
1st-2014
1st-2015 (worst case scenario)
Would have been anymore than 2 or 3 40pt 2nd/3rd line tweeners. Hell these picks could easily have churned out 3 busts. EVen if we got 2 40 pt tweeners out of those picks the reality is that those types of players can be easily attained for free (FA) every year. MSL can't. 4 years from now we'll see if MSL turns into another aged vet that fizzled out almost immediately after coming to NY and we'll see if he helps us attain any extra success in the PO's.
Besides people have been crying about tanking for YEARS like it's a magical formula. You do this by mortgaging the future for a shot now and then having a barren wasteland of an NHL roster/pipeline. So the WORST that can happen due to the recent trading of all these early picks is we continue to not win the cup and then we suck something awful in 3 or 4 years when we have all our picks. The team as currently constructed will compete for easily the next 3 or 4 years. If they don;t win then that's just too bad.
It seems to me many people here are both well-informed but incredibly biased and agenda driven to bemoan every move until it wins a cup. They seem to push this irregardless of context or the harsh reality that it's incredibly hard to win even if you have the best team in the NHL, multiple top picks and a favorable schedule.
We get it Sather's first half tenure here was horrific. The 2nd half has actually been nothing short of fun even with some bad signings like Redden, Drury and Richards (and I can't fault for the last one b/c every HF GM thought it was a brilliant signing and at least the Drury contract was just 5 years).
I'm willing to admit I was wrong. I wanted to overemphasize Sather's many horrible moves simply because we didn't win a cup but the fact is no one here would have done any better and even the most tenured posters here end up looking clueless more often then they end up being right. In the meantime the NYR make the PO's every year, built a strong pipline which has been feeding the team good prospects every year for almost a full decade and has had quite a few teams with legit cup aspirations. This is going to continue into next season at least. The last decade has been a fun one for NY hockey and after everything that happened from roughly 98-04 it's a shame a bunch of people are too biased and addicted to complaining to see it.
ANd I know someone is going to ignore the context of that last paragraph and raise the point that "Sather shouldn't be compared to HF posters he's just as bad as one though" but by referencing how much good hockey we've seen the last ten years(almost it's more like 8 and a half) I'm clearly implying he's well above everyone who posts here. No one here even holds a candle to the guy and I'm a lot more sick of people acting like they can compare to him than I am sick of seeing an occasional bad signing or Clowe trade.
If MSL plays at his current level until he's 41/42 then it was a move for the future. Unless 4 years down the road isn't the future suddenly. 4 years from now a lot of guys we have now will be old and declining and there is no guarantee that
1st-2013
2nd-2013
1st-2014
1st-2015 (worst case scenario)
Would have been anymore than 2 or 3 40pt 2nd/3rd line tweeners. Hell these picks could easily have churned out 3 busts. EVen if we got 2 40 pt tweeners out of those picks the reality is that those types of players can be easily attained for free (FA) every year. MSL can't. 4 years from now we'll see if MSL turns into another aged vet that fizzled out almost immediately after coming to NY and we'll see if he helps us attain any extra success in the PO's.
Besides people have been crying about tanking for YEARS like it's a magical formula. You do this by mortgaging the future for a shot now and then having a barren wasteland of an NHL roster/pipeline. So the WORST that can happen due to the recent trading of all these early picks is we continue to not win the cup and then we suck something awful in 3 or 4 years when we have all our picks. The team as currently constructed will compete for easily the next 3 or 4 years. If they don;t win then that's just too bad.
It seems to me many people here are both well-informed but incredibly biased and agenda driven to bemoan every move until it wins a cup. They seem to push this irregardless of context or the harsh reality that it's incredibly hard to win even if you have the best team in the NHL, multiple top picks and a favorable schedule.
We get it Sather's first half tenure here was horrific. The 2nd half has actually been nothing short of fun even with some bad signings like Redden, Drury and Richards (and I can't fault for the last one b/c every HF GM thought it was a brilliant signing and at least the Drury contract was just 5 years).
I'm willing to admit I was wrong. I wanted to overemphasize Sather's many horrible moves simply because we didn't win a cup but the fact is no one here would have done any better and even the most tenured posters here end up looking clueless more often then they end up being right. In the meantime the NYR make the PO's every year, built a strong pipline which has been feeding the team good prospects every year for almost a full decade and has had quite a few teams with legit cup aspirations. This is going to continue into next season at least. The last decade has been a fun one for NY hockey and after everything that happened from roughly 98-04 it's a shame a bunch of people are too biased and addicted to complaining to see it.
ANd I know someone is going to ignore the context of that last paragraph and raise the point that "Sather shouldn't be compared to HF posters he's just as bad as one though" but by referencing how much good hockey we've seen the last ten years(almost it's more like 8 and a half) I'm clearly implying he's well above everyone who posts here. No one here even holds a candle to the guy and I'm a lot more sick of people acting like they can compare to him than I am sick of seeing an occasional bad signing or Clowe trade.
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They have no interest in building the best team that they can. Jackass has only one interest. The here and NOW.
Is that supposed to be a ringing endorsement?
Hockey, probably more than any other sport, is still influenced by a good ol' boys club. Sather is a patriarch of it.
First of all, what is your point? Second of all, you cannot base this on ANYTHING. This is just a straw argument to try to make some sort of point.
St. Louis is a depreciating asset. It is unreasonable to expect that IF he resigns with the Rangers that he would continue to be a top scorer when past 40. And picks are picks. Assets. Something Sather has shown he can do nothing with but squander.
The only way this is a good trade is if the Rangers win the Cup. Short of that, the wasting of assets does not make for a good deal organizationally. MSG is sold out whether or not this deal is made.
Not at all what this thread is about. This is not a "Callahan is worth $xxx debate". The point is that ONCE AGAIN, Jackass squandered assets. ONCE AGAIN, his idea of how to win NOW is by trying to assemble as many glitzy toys as possible. There is no vision and no plan. There is no thought to how a locker room works.
It's already been stated that there were much better offers on the table for Vanek, but Snow refused to retain salary and took the lesser deal. Gaborik is a better rental player? That's rich.
So it's just speculation then. I thought something was out there to prove that.
All the talk of a vision or plan for the team is overblown. Unless you are a team with no budget, then your plan is build a winner using any avenues. It doesn't mean you make every move, you make the ones you think are worthwhile.
Do you think Anaheim had a plan in place for when one of the best Dman in the game has an unhappy wife, supposedly because of an affair with a female reporter in a small Canadian NHL city?
Do you think Quebec had a plan to move the team to Colorado so they could trade for arguably the best goalie ever once he forced a trade from Montreal because his moron coach let a team hang 9 goals on him at home?
Did the Devils have a plan in place to someday acquire a HOF Dman by being awarded such a player in arbitration when a team signed away one of their free agents?
Ok, you get the picture. Things happen which are unexpected and Cally wanting what he wanted as a pending free agent and MSL forcing a trade because of an Olympic snub happened at the same time. All the Rangers' acquisition shows is that they took the opportunity to acquire one of the best scorers in the game and improve their team for probably the next few seasons (if MSL gets re-signed).
I'm disappointed Sather didn't make more moves at the deadline but that's what you get when your GM doesn't want to go all out and "Win now!"
Do you think Anaheim had a plan in place for when one of the best Dman in the game has an unhappy wife, supposedly because of an affair with a female reporter in a small Canadian NHL city?
Do you think Quebec had a plan to move the team to Colorado so they could trade for arguably the best goalie ever once he forced a trade from Montreal because his moron coach let a team hang 9 goals on him at home?
Did the Devils have a plan in place to someday acquire a HOF Dman by being awarded such a player in arbitration when a team signed away one of their free agents?
Ok, you get the picture. Things happen which are unexpected and Cally wanting what he wanted as a pending free agent and MSL forcing a trade because of an Olympic snub happened at the same time. All the Rangers' acquisition shows is that they took the opportunity to acquire one of the best scorers in the game and improve their team for probably the next few seasons (if MSL gets re-signed).
I'm disappointed Sather didn't make more moves at the deadline but that's what you get when your GM doesn't want to go all out and "Win now!"
So we realize the picks could turn out but they also could draft another jessiman right? If Cally got signed for over 6x6 this board would if snapped. Glass half full is they can compete to win while msl is here , I say 4 yrs btw cause he will resign.
The good news about getting MSL is he makes other players better. Just look at what he did this season with both Stamkos and Filppula out. Vanek on the other hand, needs a talented center, otherwise his production is pretty pedestrian. Buyer beware next summer.
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