Salary Cap: Salary cap to increase ~10% next season

[BayStreetBullies*]

Hes the product of an absurd PKSV% last year.

Do you remember what our PK was like before McClement arrived?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I can't tell if your playen or not.

Dion with a higher cap hit then Crosby?

He would be the 3rd highest cap hit among all players, I think your mad.

I'm dead serious. UFA status is a beautiful thing if you're a player (or an agent). Just look at the quality of the players who got 5 million as UFA's last year. What's more valuable, two 3rd liners with intangibles or whatever or 1 Dion Phaneuf?

Getzlaf (as just one example) got just over 8 per year. You think if he hit UFA status he wouldn't get 10? What would you rather have, Getzlaf? Or Bozak and Clarkson? Bolland and Clarkson perhaps? I don't know about you, but I take the elite guy if I can and if I have to overpay by a mere 1 million per year I could care less.

What Crosby makes is totally irrelevant.

 

[FreeBird]

This means we can keep all of our main FA's and afford to give the goalies a raise next year.

Huge news for us

Why worry about keeping any of them, it's not like they've ever helped us win any thing. It's time for some new blood both on defence and forward, we need more size and compete level. It's so obvious when we play the elite teams in the league and some mediocre ones also.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

So if a player doesnt put up any points he has no value? Wow, that's pretty awesome. You may want to look around the league, the majority of 3rd and 4th liners are not used as scoring options. It truly amazes me that you fail to realize that not only did McClement lead the NHL in PK time, but he also helped make the PK for the Leafs the best it has ever had in many many years. That's the value, yet here you are talking about needing scoring to validate value? Goc and the others do not have the same impact on special teams as does McClement. You really should do some research before posting.

You may want to reread my post cause you're clearly confused.

I recognize McClement has value and his lack of offence is a factor in that assessment so to not include in is foolish. PK specialist players of his skillset isn't what you overpay for and I provided examples of successful team who use that logic.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

Do you remember what our PK was like before McClement arrived?

Have you seen our PK lately? That PK that McClement is apparently so vital in? That PK that is running at 77% right now? Seems like a similar number to that of the 77.4% it ran at with Tim Brent on it. With worse goaltending then too (Giguere and Gustavsson over half the season).

 

[Faltorvo]

You may want to reread my post cause you're clearly confused.

I recognize McClement has value and his lack of offence is a factor in that assessment so to not include in is foolish. PK specialist players of his skillset isn't what you overpay for and I provided examples of successful team who use that logic.

I'd have no issue inking JM for 2m per.

53%+ on the draws, leads the league in SHtoi.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Have you seen our PK lately? That PK that McClement is apparently so vital in? That PK that is running at 77% right now? Seems like a similar number to that of the 77.4% it ran at with Tim Brent on it. With worse goaltending then too (Giguere and Gustavsson over half the season).

Answering a question with a question I see. It's ok, people usually do that when it's inconvenient to their argument.

If you're somehow implying that the Leafs' recent plummet with the PK rests on the shoulders of McClement, then I'm going to assume you have some kind of agenda.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm dead serious. UFA status is a beautiful thing if you're a player (or an agent). Just look at the quality of the players who got 5 million as UFA's last year. What's more valuable, two 3rd liners with intangibles or whatever or 1 Dion Phaneuf?

Getzlaf (as just one example) got just over 8 per year. You think if he hit UFA status he wouldn't get 10? What would you rather have, Getzlaf? Or Bozak and Clarkson? Bolland and Clarkson perhaps? I don't know about you, but I take the elite guy if I can and if I have to overpay by a mere 1 million per year I could care less.

What Crosby makes is totally irrelevant.

Well obviously you and I differ on how contracts and player value are negotiated.

I don't see Dion getting anything close to 9m on the open market.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

Answering a question with a question I see. It's ok, people usually do that when it's inconvenient to their argument.

If you're somehow implying that the Leafs' recent plummet with the PK rests on the shoulders of McClement, then I'm going to assume you have some kind of agenda.

Im not putting it on him at all. Im stating that hes not the PK god send youre all making him to be. He an interchangeable part. Sure hes adequate enough, but outside of being decent on a PK what purpose does he serve? No offence at all, not that great of a possession game. Be quite easy to find someone that can provide adequate penalty killing ability along with being able to provide at least a sliver of offence as well.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Don't forget Kessels pay rise kicks in and will eat some of that up.

0.1mil. That's using the buyouts and other salary that we used in deals for the snartasses.

 

[Faltorvo]

Im not putting it on him at all. Im stating that hes not the PK god send youre all making him to be. He an interchangeable part. Sure hes adequate enough, but outside of being decent on a PK what purpose does he serve? No offence at all, not that great of a possession game. Be quite easy to find someone that can provide adequate penalty killing ability along with being able to provide at least a sliver of offence as well.

He finished 1 ESP less then Bozak last year.

JVR had a great year last year,right? Only 9 more ESP then JM.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well obviously you and I differ on how contracts and player value are negotiated.

I don't see Dion getting anything close to 9m on the open market.

I'm talking about the theoretical scenario where Phaneuf waits until UFA season starts and waits for the offers to roll in. That's not a negotiation, it's a bidding war/auction.

If you don't think he gets anything close to 9m in that scenario, I think you're sadly mistaken. I hope we never find out.

Editing to add this question - just for fun.

Let's say that Getzlaf was somehow available to the Leafs for 10 million per year starting next year for say 7 years. No negotiation, just take it or leave it.

Do you say yes or no? I'm saying yes and sign the paper as fast as I can before he changes his mind.

 

[pooleboy]

Dave Bolland - Keep
Nikolai Kulemin - Trade
Jay McClement - Keep
Mason Raymond - Depends on Price
Trevor Smith - Meh, he can stay
Dion Phaneuf - Keep
Mark Fraser - Can Go
Paul Ranger - Keep
James Reimer - Keep
Jake Gardiner - Keep

Ranger @ 1.2
Phaneuf @ 7.2
Bolland @ 3.5
McClement @ 1.8
Raymond @ 2.5 MAX
Reimer @ 2.9
Gardiner @ 2-3M?
Smith @ 850K

22Mish to re-sign all of these.

i said this the other day, why would we overpay for Raymond when we can find another Raymond type player for a mill? Mcarthur was found before him.

 

[New Liskeard]

You may want to reread my post cause you're clearly confused.

I recognize McClement has value and his lack of offence is a factor in that assessment so to not include in is foolish. PK specialist players of his skillset isn't what you overpay for and I provided examples of successful team who use that logic.

I can pretty much assure you, offence is not a major factor at all when the Leafs signed McClement initially. Tell me something, how is paying McClement 1.5 to maybe 2.2 overpriced when he is one of the best PKers and excellent fourth liners in the NHL? Goaltending, PK and PP are becoming more of the deciding factors in winning hockey games, and if the Leafs plan on having a decent PK, McClement is a must. I am convinced you want to see this team tank, and scoring goals seems to be the only comparable you weigh against players to determine their value.

 

[WildcatMapleLeafs28]

Don't forget Kessels pay rise kicks in and will eat some of that up.

The 2 million in buyouts (Tucker/Armstrong) and 500k we retained in the Bernier trade cover Kessel's raise.

 

[Hanta Yo]

I would be willing to bet you that the Oilers would offer that easily to Phaneuf if he hit the open market, I'd almost guarantee it. Philly and Anaheim are two other teams that would go balls out to get Phaneuf as well.

I don't think 9 million per year for Phaneuf will come easily from anyone. Maybe a slim chance if for some reason there is some bidding war between extremely desperate teams.

 

[New Liskeard]

Im not putting it on him at all. Im stating that hes not the PK god send youre all making him to be. He an interchangeable part. Sure hes adequate enough, but outside of being decent on a PK what purpose does he serve? No offence at all, not that great of a possession game. Be quite easy to find someone that can provide adequate penalty killing ability along with being able to provide at least a sliver of offence as well.

You must not have watched any games last year. This year has been very good for the PK as well, up until this recent PK slump.

 

[New Liskeard]

I don't think 9 million per year for Phaneuf will come easily from anyone. Maybe a slim chance if for some reason there is some bidding war between extremely desperate teams.

In hindsight, 9 million per might be on the high end, but I am convinced if Phaneuf hits the market, teams and especially the Oilers will certainly pay significantly for Dion.

 

[Faltorvo]

I'm talking about the theoretical scenario where Phaneuf waits until UFA season starts and waits for the offers to roll in. That's not a negotiation, it's a bidding war/auction.

If you don't think he gets anything close to 9m in that scenario, I think you're sadly mistaken. I hope we never find out.

Editing to add this question - just for fun.

Let's say that Getzlaf was somehow available to the Leafs for 10 million per year starting next year for say 7 years. No negotiation, just take it or leave it.

Do you say yes or no? I'm saying yes and sign the paper as fast as I can before he changes his mind.

My answer would be, no.

And I'm a HUGE Getz fan.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I can pretty much assure you, offence is not a major factor at all when the Leafs signed McClement initially. Tell me something, how is paying McClement 1.5 to maybe 2.2 overpriced when he is one of the best PKers and excellent fourth liners in the NHL? Goaltending, PK and PP are becoming more of the deciding factors in winning hockey games, and if the Leafs plan on having a decent PK, McClement is a must. I am convinced you want to see this team tank, and scoring goals seems to be the only comparable you weigh against players to determine their value.

How does me mentioning his complete lack of offence mean I don't like him? It simply means that him not helping our bottom 6 contribute doesn't help us in that aspect of the game and that he needs to compared to other players of his similar skillset and paid accordingly.

I've compared McClement to top PKers from other teams and how highly successful teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston have chosen not to overpay role players which saves them money which allows them to fit in more higher end talents (some who in addition to killing penalties also contribute a lot more like scoring).

Find me comparables to McClement that make 2 million or more on good teams if you're going to make a case for why we need to retain him if he wants to get paid a premium for what he brings.

It's also worth noting McClement was playing at his peak value last season but if he slips much he is closer to an AHLer than an NHLer.

 

[rdawg1234]

Mcclement stays, he took a discount(used to make 2m) to come to us before, he'll probably take another one again, he's a toronto guy. Expect 1.8-2.1m for him, which is the max i'd go. Great defensively/on the PK, but zero offense.

Raymond gone, he'll expect 2.5m, rightfully so, but that's too much for a depth scorer like him imo.

Fraser gone, he was an okay stop gap, but one of Percy, Granberg, Macwilliam will be ready for a slightly cheaper price.

Everyone else signed for slight raises(bolland 4m, Reimer 3.5-4m, Kulemin 3m, Phaneuf 7m)

 

[New Liskeard]

How does me mentioning his complete lack of offence mean I don't like him? It simply means that him not helping our bottom 6 contribute doesn't help us in that aspect of the game and that he needs to compared to other players of his similar skillset and paid accordingly.

I've compared McClement to top PKers from other teams and how highly successful teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston have chosen not to overpay role players which saves them money which allows them to fit in more higher end talents (some who in addition to killing penalties also contribute a lot more like scoring).

Find me comparables to McClement that make 2 million or more on good teams if you're going to make a case for why we need to retain him if he wants to get paid a premium for what he brings.

It's also worth noting McClement was playing at his peak value last season but if he slips much he is closer to an AHLer than an NHLer.

You just don't seem to get it. No one equates offence with McCelement, that is not what he brings to the table. I don't know what that is so hard to understand. Next you are going to say Kessel isn't of value because he needs to play the PK and be a better PK overall. McCelment was a major part of a very successful PK last year, and even this year up until the recent slump. Not only did he have more PK time than anyone in the entire NHL last year, many were very upset that he didn't win or get more serious consideration for the Selke. Combine that with a cap going up to likely 71 million, you are having a problem giving one of the best 4th liners and one of the best PKers, leaders of the team and harder workers 2 million per? And you justify this because he doesn't score enough?

 

[Sokil]

sign Stastny and Timmonen and Bolland, drop Phaneuf

 

[Mikeyg]

Don't forget Kessels pay rise kicks in and will eat some of that up.

buyouts come off to neutralize it

 

[New Liskeard]

How does me mentioning his complete lack of offence mean I don't like him? It simply means that him not helping our bottom 6 contribute doesn't help us in that aspect of the game and that he needs to compared to other players of his similar skillset and paid accordingly.

I've compared McClement to top PKers from other teams and how highly successful teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston have chosen not to overpay role players which saves them money which allows them to fit in more higher end talents (some who in addition to killing penalties also contribute a lot more like scoring).

Find me comparables to McClement that make 2 million or more on good teams if you're going to make a case for why we need to retain him if he wants to get paid a premium for what he brings.

It's also worth noting McClement was playing at his peak value last season but if he slips much he is closer to an AHLer than an NHLer.[/QUOTE]

So last year he was the NHL's PK minute leader, best PK forward and Lebrun and others thought he should have won the Selke. Yet here you are saying if he regresses slightly he is an AHLer? That's awesome.