Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[PensandCaps]

That's still completely illogical. The only prospects that Reaves is pushing out of the lineup are bottom 6ers, and even then only really the 4th line. Reaves is not blocking anyone's development EXCEPT for players that have a ceiling of 4th liner and I have no idea why you'd think he'd inhibit Sprong's development.

Guentzel didn't work his way up from the 4th line. He came in and grabbed top 9 time because that's the kind of player he is and the coaching staff gets that.

Again. Because who comes out the lineup for Sprong if he goes off and clicks with Malkin? It ain't gonna be Kessel.....it's gonna be Reaves. So the team may not wanna do that and make their trade look bad.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Reaves - 46.1 CF%, 74% DZone%
Kuhnhackl - 45.9 CF%, 70% DZone%
Archibald - 45.1 CF%, 50% DZone%

I mean, if you're going to talk about metrics to downplay Reaves, make sure the guys you're comparing him to have superior numbers first.

Archibald does have better metrics.

You do know a higher defensive zone start isn't better right?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Again. Because who comes out the lineup for Sprong if he goes off and clicks with Malkin? It ain't gonna be Kessel.....it's gonna be Reaves. So the team may not wanna do that and make their trade look bad.

Wait, you seriously think the team is going to prioritize Reaves over Kessel?

 

[PensandCaps]

How would the trade look bad if Sprong is good enough to push Reaves out of the lineup? That's just nonsense, your entire theory is just nonsense. Do you really think the Penguins would keep a player like Sprong in the AHL just to make themselves look better by playing Reaves? Seriously?

Know what's a lot more likely? The Penguins trade one of Wilson or Hagelin for either picks or help on another area of the roster, Sprong immediately jumps into the top-6 and nothing else changes.

Trading wilson or Hags to keep Reaves in the lineup would be just as bad.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yeah that's just not true

Yes it is, for Archibald to be more valuable than the other bottom 6 option he would need to produce. One third of his nhl production was in one game.

Even counting that game he was on a 16 point pace, without it 6 point pace.

He isnt good. He is AT BEST a fungible 4th liner.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Archibald does have better metrics.

You do know a higher defensive zone start isn't better right?

You do know what a higher defensive zone start means, right? You don't seem to understand what that stat is for.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Career possession stats:

Archibald: 43.8% CF%, 44.9% FF%, 50% offensive zone start
Reaves: 47.3% CF%, 48.3% FF%, 46.1% offensive zone start

If by "better", you mean "clearly worse with much more favorable starts", then yes, Archibald's possession stats are better.

Trading wilson or Hags to keep Reaves in the lineup would be just as bad.

No it wouldn't. That's just stupid.

Wait, you seriously think the team is going to prioritize Reaves over Kessel?

Seriously, they're just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks at this point. Do you really think the Penguins, a team that preaches accountability and has won 2 straight cups, are going to keep Reaves in every game because they don't want the trade to look bad?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Archibald does have better metrics.

You do know a higher defensive zone start isn't better right?

Thats not how that works. Like, at all.

 

[HandshakeLine]

His zone starts, corsi and fenwick are all weak. Please contradict my claims because all the metrics are the same on every website.

No, no. Give me your actual argument. Are you arguing that Reaves is the weakest on the Blues? Weaker in comparison to the players mentioned? And why not take into account other stats that account for Reaves' strengths instead of purely offensive production, given that's not his role?

Do some analysis for once instead of being lazy.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The only player Reaves is replacing is some combination of an old Chris Kunitz and an occasional appearance from Tom Sestito. That's it. We will never have to argue about why Reaves is playing long stretches in the top six (unlike Kunitz), and we are far less likely to ever see Sestito in an NHL game this season.

If you are saying now that you would be OK with having either Kunitz or Sestito on the team instead of going through with the Reaves deal, you are being disingenuous. Because EVERYBODY had a problem with Kunitz playing a top-six role, and even more people had a problem with Sestito seeing any action at all.

Reaves alleviates both issues. Done and done.

 

[PensandCaps]

Career possession stats:

Archibald: 43.8% CF%, 44.9% FF%, 50% offensive zone start
Reaves: 47.3% CF%, 48.3% FF%, 46.1% offensive zone start

If by "better", you mean "clearly worse with much more favorable starts", then yes, Archibald's possession stats are better.



No it wouldn't. That's just stupid.

Lol 10 games compared to 80. Using metrics at all is just dumb to begin with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lol 10 games compared to 80. Using metrics at all is just dumb to begin with.

That was using Reaves' career stats. Saying Archibald's possession stats are better when they're clearly not is also dumb

No one is saying Reaves is better because his possession stats are better. Someone trying to discredit Reaves brought up his possession stats to try and say he's bad. No one was ever trying to prop up Reaves with possession stats.

 

[PensandCaps]

Career possession stats:

Archibald: 43.8% CF%, 44.9% FF%, 50% offensive zone start
Reaves: 47.3% CF%, 48.3% FF%, 46.1% offensive zone start

If by "better", you mean "clearly worse with much more favorable starts", then yes, Archibald's possession stats are better.



No it wouldn't. That's just stupid.



Seriously, they're just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks at this point. Do you really think the Penguins, a team that preaches accountability and has won 2 straight cups, are going to keep Reaves in every game because they don't want the trade to look bad?

They just did it with Guentzel last year to keep Kunitz happy. He was clearly NHL ready, but they sent him down.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They just did it with Guentzel last year to keep Kunitz happy. He was clearly NHL ready, but they sent him down.

And then they gave him a top-6 spot for January and kept him there. I like how you're ignoring that part. That also pretends Kunitz, a guy who has spent like 9 years with the team as a top-6 forward, and Reaves, someone they got in June that has been a 4th line enforcer, are the same player.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Trading wilson or Hags to keep Reaves in the lineup would be just as bad.

But nobody's saying that at all. Nor is it at all in the realm of likely possibilities.

Hags' departure is going to be due to the fact that he's overpaid for his role in the bottom 6, not because not Reaves makes a third of what Hags does.

 

[PensandCaps]

That was using Reaves' career stats. Saying Archibald's possession stats are better when they're clearly not is also dumb

No one is saying Reaves is better because his possession stats are better. Someone trying to discredit Reaves brought up his possession stats to try and say he's bad. No one was ever trying to prop up Reaves with possession stats.

Yah i agree. Even if archibald had better metrics....it's still 10 games. Means nothing. Anyone can have a run of 10 games where their metrics are awesome or really bad.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

You do know what a higher defensive zone start means, right? You don't seem to understand what that stat is for.

You probably sit there and think the coach sends him on the ice for defensive situations but most likely he just iced the puck and had to be on the ice.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You probably sit there and think the coach sends him on the ice for defensive situations but most likely he just iced the puck and had to be on the ice.

I think we just got masterly trolled.

Well played, sir. My hat is off to you.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think we just got masterly trolled.

Well played, sir. My hat is off to you.

I'm hoping that's the case, for his sake. Otherwise ...

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

No, no. Give me your actual argument. Are you arguing that Reaves is the weakest on the Blues? Weaker in comparison to the players mentioned? And why not take into account other stats that account for Reaves' strengths instead of purely offensive production, given that's not his role?

Do some analysis for once instead of being lazy.

And let me ask you what are those strengths. Because if they're so apparent there wouldn't even be a discussion. You want me to show you a stat with hits per minute or?

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I think we just got masterly trolled.

Well played, sir. My hat is off to you.

I am trolling a bit but I still prefer Archibald

 

[HandshakeLine]

I am trolling a bit but I still prefer Archibald

It's all good. But man, you were in playoff form there.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

They just did it with Guentzel last year to keep Kunitz happy. He was clearly NHL ready, but they sent him down.

And now Guentzel is heading for superstardom.

If anyone wants to argue for Sprong to start the season in Pittsburgh, they should NOT use Guentzel as part of said argument.

If the Pens want to try to see if lightning strikes twice with Sprong, I am all for it.

We will never know whether Guentzel was NHL-ready when camps broke last year. What we do know is he became even better than we expected, even more quickly.

If they try the same approach with Sprong...

 

[Gurglesons]

You probably sit there and think the coach sends him on the ice for defensive situations but most likely he just iced the puck and had to be on the ice.

LOL

It is because the Blues were literally never in the offensive zone.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

It's all good. But man, you were in playoff form there.

Hey got to be ready in case we meet the Flyers although I wouldn't bet on it