Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Fjordy]

Comrie looked solid as a backup in Winnipeg in 2021-22 when he had a .920 Save%.

UPL looked good when he was healthy in Buffalo in 2021-22 when he had a .917 Save%.

Goaltending matters AND team defense matters. It will never be an either/or thing.

Then remember Hutton's stats back in St. Louis. You do understand that the sample of Comrie and UPL is minimal. One played 19 games with no load and even in those 19 he had failed games and not one, and the second played only 9 games in general. Give me a sample of at least 50 or 100 games. I can't trust these goalies, and apparently neither does Adams.

We need improve goalie and defense, both.

 

[Jim Bob]

Then remember Hutton's stats back in St. Louis. You do understand that the sample of Comrie and UPL is minimal. One played 19 games with no load and even in those 19 he had failed games and not one, and the second played only 9 games in general. Give me a sample of at least 50 or 100 games. I can't trust these goalies, and apparently neither does Adams.

We need improve goalie and defense, both.

Well, then you can't trust Levi, either.

I am not saying that you can trust Comrie and UPL. I am just saying that they have small sample sizes of quality NHL play, just like Levi does.

I am all for making a significant move in goal and adding a guy that has roughly 2-3 years of team control to solidify the position. I do not believe that having some blend of Comrie, UPL, and Levi is smart if they expect to make the playoffs in 2023-24.

Unfortunately, the goaltending position is a season or two behind the development of the rest of the roster.

 

[Fjordy]

Well, then you can't trust Levi, either.

I am not saying that you can trust Comrie and UPL. I am just saying that they have small sample sizes of quality NHL play, just like Levi does.

I am all for making a significant move in goal and adding a guy that has roughly 2-3 years of team control to solidify the position. I do not believe that having some blend of Comrie, UPL, and Levi is smart if they expect to make the playoffs in 2023-24.

Unfortunately, the goaltending position is a season or two behind the development of the rest of the roster.

At this stage, Levi has almost no sample so far, he just came out of college and it may take him 1-2 years to seriously enter the game. But I meant that the good performance of Comrie and UPL, where they played few games, mean little to me.

 

[HOOats]

No they aren't. Players are going to get injured, players are going to get reduced ice time. It's rare to see the volume of players we had last year have career years all in one year.

Obviously players getting injured is random and doesn't factor in projecting improvement. If anything, potential injuries are a point for the importance of the entire roster leveling up, rather than an individual acquisition that could get wiped out in an instant.

Who is going to get reduced ice time? Why? We're unlikely to add any forwards who take top 9 or PP time. Same with D. It's only rare to see the number of players we had have career years because it's rare for a team to be loaded with good to elite young talent all playing key roles.

This will be Cozens first summer with a real NHL star contract.

It is completely normal for that to have an impact, on and off the ice.

This is a cliché. Cozens might be the most ferocious competitor on our team, comes from humble roots, zero reason to predict the contract will go to his head. What's more likely 20 or 35 goals?

Development isn't the same for everyone. Some guys are going to take a step back. Some guys are going to take a step forward. The book will be out on how to play against some of these guys and they'll have to adjust.

Right and the odds are in our favor that our core of 20-26 year olds continue to produce seasons on the "step forward" side, even if some don't. Our young guys will also have a book on the league allowing them to adjust.

If any big gains are to be made, results wise, it's going to come from addressing areas of weaknesses, not every player being a little better next year.

It's such a dour approach, can't understand it. Literally every franchise's fans are envious of the set-up we have for the next 5-10 years. That's based on all our (awesome) players still on upward trajectories to their primes. Yes, odds are they are all going to keep getting a little better, as long as you zoom out your view to allow game-to-game, month-to-month, etc variance to even out. Personally, I'm going to enjoy the ride.

 

[Aladyyn]

Or maybe... both need to be fixed.

Reduce the number of shots they are facing, and even at the exact same save % you reduce the number of goals being allowed.

Eric Comrie - Save % - .886 - GAA 3.67
Martin jones - Save % - .886 - GAA 2.99

That's a massive difference in goals allowed with the exact same save %. Get better at suppressing shots to the net and you allow less goals.

In order for Comrie to have a similar GAA to Jones, he would have needed a .907 save %.

Ok but we still need a goalie better than Martin Jones

 

[joshjull]

This is the problem with Joker.

He puts up slightly below average stats. But the stats don't really capture that he's fine for 90% of a game and then completely switches his brain off the other 10%.

He's the kind of defensemen who looks perfectly average and you don't notice him much, until the ~2 shifts a game where he completely falls apart.

He's also terrible on the PK yet continues to get minutes there.

I agree with most of this. My problem is with other posters ignoring the bolded part of your post (below) when evaluating him.

He's miscast badly as the #4 defensive D to partner with Powerand as a PKer. He's much more of a 3rd pairing play driver/puck mover.

He's still super young and could improve.

I agree. The point I was trying to make by bringing up his fancy stats was ……… What’s the most likely outcome of any dman playing a ton of minutes** in that situation? They kick ass? Or they struggle? If he can put up numbers, in your words, slightly below average. Thats not bad under the circumstances.

**Ton of minutes = Joker was 28th among all dmen in 5v5 atoi (18:15). Playing as much or more than many top pairing dmen. Which is kind of nuts for a #4 dman.

 

[HaNotsri]

Curious to interrogate this line of thought a bit. To me, it would be unlucky if they fail to take another step next year based on internal improvement alone. So many things would have to go wrong, so much high-end youth would have to a take nosedive in the face of their trajectories. Just from strength and experience gains alone and all else being equal, 15 guys should improve. We were green pipsqueaks last year and outlasted all but one veteran wild card contender.

Is Cousins more likely to score 20 or 35 next year? His speed and shot alone create a comfortable floor. He should also add significant strength to his big, lean frame, trending toward being an elite middleweight pest. Experience should boost his defensive game.

Is Power not going to be that much stronger and well-conditioned? He should be that much better at knowing when to employ the elite patience he exhibited with the puck at both ends. He gradually introduced some physicality into his game and that should continue. There's hardly a chance in the world that he regresses, outside a complete disaster of a partner or injury.

Quinn with another summer of strength and conditioning as a projectable, late-bloomer, multi-sport athlete. He was driving play by the season's end. Hell, even Dahlin should continue getting stronger and learn not to take the most dumb penalties in the league. The list goes on and on.

Imo it's reasonable to continue to expect breakouts to outweigh regression when our roster is built of young first round picks whose arrows are all pointing up, who are all competing in a positive way to drive each other's improvement, under a coach who has earned a reputation for fostering development. Add in 20 intense, high-stakes games this spring and the summer-long burn of coming up short.

Of course this growth should absolutely be supplemented with a top 4 D, upgraded 4th line vets, and likely a goalie. But it would be a shock to me if as much of our young core regresses to the point you describe.

I'm just suggesting status quo or a step backwards is possible. If you look at Thompson and possibly Mittelstadt they needed time. Peterka och Quinn might be great prospects but it's not unreasonable to think they might need one more year before making a significant impact.
We will likely be even younger next season which in itself is a bit crazy.

I'll give both Granato and players a pass if we don't make the playoffs. I'll put the blame on Adams for not making the right adjustments.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I'm just suggesting status quo or a step backwards is possible. If you look at Thompson and possibly Mittelstadt they needed time. Peterka och Quinn might be great prospects but it's not unreasonable to think they might need one more year before making a significant impact.
We will likely be even younger next season which in itself is a bit crazy.

I'll give both Granato and players a pass if we don't make the playoffs. I'll put the blame on Adams for not making the right adjustments.

Based on the comparative seasons between Peterka this year and Cozens last year, along with their WC performances. I predict a breakout for Peterka next season in line with what we saw from Cozens this year. Mostly because I want it to happen

Cozens - 21-22 NHL - 13g 25a 79gp, WC 7g 6a 10gp
Peterka - 22-23 NHL - 12g 20a 77gp, WC 4g 5a 7gp

It makes sense in my head.

 

[joshjull]

This is basically how I view Joki. He's a puck moving defenseman whose worst attribute, IMO, is his passing, especially under pressure. He's not big or physical, he's not super fast. He's "ok" defensively, but occasionally wanders and loses his man. Is he acceptable as a 3rd pair you don't ask much of, ok. But I take Boosh over him every day of the week, Stillman as well. And I think those are guys that could also be upgraded, BTW.

I'm not going to riot if Joki is still here next year in a lesser role, but if it were up to me, I'm looking to replace him in the lineup with someone much better and I'm not re-signing him when his contract is up. If no one wants him, he walks.

That doesn’t even make sense.

Joker just spent an entire season in a role he isn’t suited to playing 18:15 atoi at 5v5. His fancy stats broke even. In other words, he played a ton minutes (28th most in league) in a very unsheltered role and did as well as could be expected.

Why would he need to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing? Something that was actually done with the two guys you have more faith in (Boosh/Stillman).

 

[RefsIdeas]

Combine that with a 45.12 GF% at 5 on 5 and a 48.08% xgf% at 5 on 5, I think it's a tough sell that he "broke even". If you look at pure Corsi, then yeah - he broke even.

I do agree that he's better suited for a third pair role, however I don't see him displacing Boosh. He's kind of in no-mans land on the Sabres right now.

 

[joshjull]

I see no reason to have a player like Bryson in that role. IMO he has no future on a playoff calibre team. His size as a defenseman is a big problem. I would rather that 8th spot be a developing player with a higher ceiling and the size to play the position. I am ok with an experienced aging vet in that spot as well. Bryson is a wasted roster spot.

What roster spot? I said he would be good depth as the #8 in Rochester.

I’d love to have a developing player with a higher dealing and size in the #8 spot. But until we develop one, it’s going to be the Brysons/Piluts/Clagues of the world filling our #8-10 depth spots.

Joker has Value, but not so much to us. He is undersized and not good enough at either offense or defense to be the kind of specialist I prefer to see on the bottom pair. The bottom pair should complement the top four, bringing skill sets that are under represented in the top 4. Like how we really need better penalty killing. So, I want a large, heavy playing defensive specialist to play the penalty kill and lock down a lead. Thats not Joker, and Joker is not a top 4, so his best use is as trade value in acquiring the type of defenseman we do need.

You don’t know what he can do on a bottom pairing. He’s never played there under Granato. But we do know he played in a much more difficult usage this past season than anything he‘d face on a 3rd pairing. If he broke even with his fancy stats in that role/usage. I think its fair to assume he would play much better in the fewer minutes/easier role the 3rd pairing would provide.


The most important thing we need from our 3rd pairing next season is they actually play. Otherwise our top 4 will be ridden hard again. Our top 4 dmen were 2nd, 5th, 17th and 28th respectively in 5v5 atoi. Thats kind of nuts in a 32 team league.

 

[Irie]

This conversation is maddening. Yes the team gives up a lot of quality chances in front of the goalies. Yes two goalies, a senior citizen and a kid who had never played a pro game, handled it better than the other two.

Now let’s talk about it with some actual content instead of pretending that fixing other things will fix Comrie and UPL. You want eye test? Tell me how those two players impress you with their positioning, movement…anything. You can see it in Levi Already. How do they look to you? Forget the opportunities against and tell me what they’ve shown you about how they play those opportunities that tells you they’re going to be good at any point. You’ll say…well…limit the chances and they’ll allow less and profit. And i‘ll ask again…what in their games looks to you like we can’t easily improve the position with any number of options…and that tossing Levi out there with this kind of support is a disaster waiting to happen. You want analytics instead? Go check out their goals saved above expected. That factors in the quality of opportunities they’re facing and tells you exactly how they’re handling them. Spoiler…they’re f***ing terrible.

so no…fixing the system and the defense will not fix the goaltending. Fixing the goaltending will fix the goaltending,

1.) If you actually watched the games, there is absolutely no way you can say with a straight face that the team did not play several levels tighter defense in front of Levi than they did in front of Comrie for most of the season.

2.) That f***ing terrible goalie UPL, who was only 23, had a 17-11-5 record playing behind one the the worst defenses in the league. That prorates out to a 97 point season.

3.) You use the terms eye-test and then goals-saved-above-expected. You do realize that goals-saved-above-expected is not generated from actually watching the games, don't you? It is just a garbage algorithm that takes the location of shots and compares how often shots from those locations are goals across the league. Zero real context. Positioning is not the problem plaguing either goalie.

4.) Goaltending IS a byproduct of team defense in today's NHL. If you can't see that, then you don't understand what you are watching. Take Carolina's goalies. two goalies with some of the best stats in the league, both leave the team the same summer, and look at their numbers in different teams.

Nedeljkovic went from .932% to .901%
Mrazek went from .923% to .888%

Look around the league. It is present everywhere. Goalies leave strong defensive structured teams and go to loose, poor defensive teams have huge drop-offs in their numbers. It works the other way too. Look at Brian Elliott at 35 going from Philly to Tampa or Lankinen going from Chicago to Nashville.

Elliott .889% to .912%
Lankinen .891 to .916%

UPL is young, big, and extremely athletic for his size. Move him from behind this Sabres D system to Nashville and I bet his SV% jumps from .892 to .915+ also.

Just bringing the PK up to respectable levels moves his sv% to .905 in Buffalo if you prorate his goals against vs the change in the PK efficiency.

What is maddening is your isnistence on placing the entire shortcomings of the entire organization on a couple of players. You do it every year since you've been here and you always have a player to blame for everything, and you ridicule them half a dozen times a day. Those posts are toxic, uproductive, and flat out misguided. What you are really saying when you post such vitriol is that you are much smarter than Granato and the coaching staff, because they are the ones watching the tape, analyzing the players and deploying them how they are. You obviously disagree with them, why not attack the people actually making the decisions about how and where these players are being played?

 

[RefsIdeas]

1.) If you actually watched the games, there is absolutely no way you can say with a straight face that the team did not play several levels tighter defense in front of Levi than they did in front of Comrie for most of the season.

2.) That f***ing terrible goalie UPL, who was only 23, had a 17-11-5 record playing behind one the the worst defenses in the league. That prorates out to a 97 point season.

3.) You use the terms eye-test and then goals-saved-above-expected. You do realize that goals-saved-above-expected is not generated from actually watching the games, don't you? It is just a garbage algorithm that takes the location of shots and compares how often shots from those locations are goals across the league. Zero real context. Positioning is not the problem plaguing either goalie.

4.) Goaltending IS a byproduct of team defense in today's NHL. If you can't see that, then you don't understand what you are watching. Take Carolina's goalies. two goalies with some of the best stats in the league, both leave the team the same summer, and look at their numbers in different teams.

Nedeljkovic went from .932% to .901%
Mrazek went from .923% to .888%

Look around the league. It is present everywhere. Goalies leave strong defensive structured teams and go to loose, poor defensive teams have huge drop-offs in their numbers. It works the other way too. Look at Brian Elliott at 35 going from Philly to Tampa or Lankinen going from Chicago to Nashville.

Elliott .889% to .912%
Lankinen .891 to .916%

UPL is young, big, and extremely athletic for his size. Move him from behind this Sabres D system to Nashville and I bet his SV% jumps from .892 to .915+ also.

Just bringing the PK up to respectable levels moves his sv% to .905 in Buffalo if you prorate his goals against vs the change in the PK efficiency.

What is maddening is your isnistence on placing the entire shortcomings of the entire organization on a couple of players. You do it every year since you've been here and you always have a player to blame for everything, and you ridicule them half a dozen times a day. Those posts are toxic, uproductive, and flat out misguided. What you are really saying when you post such vitriol is that you are much smarter than Granato and the coaching staff, because they are the ones watching the tape, analyzing the players and deploying them how they are. You obviously disagree with them, why not attack the people actually making the decisions about how and where these players are being played?

If you watched the games like you said and your takeaway is “actually UPL is a good goalie” - you might need to get your eyes checked.

 

[Zman5778]

If you watched the games like you said and your takeaway is “actually UPL is a good goalie” - you might need to get your eyes checked.

He certainly had some VERY good games. And some pretty poor ones too.

 

[RefsIdeas]

He certainly had some VERY good games. And some pretty poor ones too.

I can’t argue with that. The Avs/Vegas games in December were very good. Just too inconsistent and sloppy play though. I know he’s young - but I just don’t see it with him. He’s big and athletic, sure, not sure he’s going to be able to take that next step though. I’d be surprised if he’s on the team next year.

 

[Irie]

If you watched the games like you said and your takeaway is “actually UPL is a good goalie” - you might need to get your eyes checked.

Bad goalies don't go 17-11-5 on terrible defense teams.

UPL is young, inconsistent, and struggles with mental focus issues which most goalies do when they are frustrated with the defensive coverage in front of them. Even Patrick Roy had focus issue when his team was playing poorly in front of him.

The fact is UPL absolutely stole some games for the team this season, and when the team played solid D limiting the high danger chances, he was good.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Bad goalies don't go 17-11-5 on terrible defense teams.

UPL is young, inconsistent, and struggles with mental focus issues which most goalies do when they are frustrated with the defensive coverage in front of them. Even Patrick Roy had focus issue when his team was playing poorly in front of him.

The fact is UPL absolutely stole some games for the team this season, and when the team played solid D limiting the high danger chances, he was good.

Using his record as the crux of your argument for why he’s not bad is terrible logic, I’m sorry.

Jack Campbell was 21-9-4 this year. We should want him, right? Seems like a stud.

 

[Willgamesh]

Levi will be our starter for a decade plus. He's a brick wall.

 

[joshjull]

View attachment 711863View attachment 711864

Why are you posting charts that don’t really matter? What do you think you’re telling me with them?

I’ll start with the first one. It’s a micro stats chart that samples only 11 games and compares that sample to 185 other dmen’s similarly small samples. The only way you can get to 185 defenseman is including everyone from #1 dmen to 6/7 dmen. What possible value could that info hold with such flawed underlying metrics? I don’t want to bash the work Corey does because I know it’s very time consuming. But it doesn’t change the limited and flawed nature of it.

The 2nd one is an Even strength and Power Play RAPM chart. I’m talking about his usage 5v5. It’s like you wanted to pile on bashing Joker but didn’t pay attention to the details.

The analytics community in general, and Sabres twitter in particular, deserve a smack for convincing people these charts mean more than they could possibly tell us.

Combine that with a 45.12 GF% at 5 on 5 and a 48.08% xgf% at 5 on 5, I think it's a tough sell that he "broke even". If you look at pure Corsi, then yeah - he broke even.

Joker’s 5v5 underlying stats per NST.
CF% ——> 51%
SF% ——> 48%
SCF% —-> 50%
HDCF% -> 47%
GF% ——-> 45%
xGF% ——> 49%
OZS% —-> 48%

I generally don‘t use GF% as an underlying metric but as a benchmark to compare the other underlying numbers against (Are they under or over performing their numbers). But I included it here. That looks like a guy who did about as well as could be expected relative to who he is as a player and in the role he was tasked with. I can certainly say he came pretty close to breaking even. But “breaking even“ or “coming close” doesn’t really matter to the point I was making.

I do agree that he's better suited for a third pair role, however I don't see him displacing Boosh. He's kind of in no-mans land on the Sabres right now.

A good bottom pairing dman plays about 15mins atoi 5v5. You’d want at least 14+mins.

-Boosh averaged 12:43 for the year and played 9mins or so during the most important games at the end of the season.

-Joker averaged 18:15 a night and played 20+mins during the most important games at the end of the season.

The idea Joker is behind Boosh is disconnected from reality.

 

[Ace]

I don’t know how we ever lost a game with great players like Comrie, UPL and Joker on the job.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Why are you posting charts that don’t really matter? What do you think you’re telling me with them?

I’ll start with the first one. It’s a micro stats chart that samples only 11 games and compares that sample to 185 other dmen’s similarly small samples. The only way you can get to 185 defenseman is including everyone from #1 dmen to 6/7 dmen. What possible value could that info hold with such flawed underlying metrics? I don’t want to bash the work Corey does because I know its very time consuming. But it doesn’t change the flawed nature of it.

The 2nd one is an Even strength and Power Play RAPM chart. I’m talking about his usage 5v5. It’s like you wanted to pile on bashing Joker but didn’t pay attention to the details.

The analytics community in general, and Sabres twitter in particular, deserve a smack for convincing people these charts mean more than they could possibly tell us.


Joker’s 5v5 underlying stats per NST.
CF% ——> 51%
SF% ——> 48%
SCF% —-> 50%
HDCF% -> 47%
GF% ——-> 45%
xGF% ——> 49%
OZS% —-> 48%

I generally don‘t use GF% as an underlying metric but as a benchmark to compare the other underlying numbers against (Are they under or over performing their numbers). But I included it here. That looks like a guy who did about as well as could be expected in the role he was tasked with and who is as a player. I can certainly say he came pretty close to breaking even. But “breaking even“ or “coming close” doesn’t matter to the point I was making.


A good bottom pairing dman plays about 15mins atoi 5v5. You’d want at least 14+mins.

-Boosh averaged 12:43 for the year and played 9mins or so during the most important games at the end of the season.

-Joker averaged 18:15 a night and played 20+mins during the most important games at the end of the season.

The idea Joker is behind Boosh is disconnected from reality.

This reply just screams “I don’t really know what I’m looking at” - especially your laughable point about his RAPM chart. I’m not going to walk you through how to look at these charts, but I would stay away from engaging in these arguments if I were you.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I don’t know how we ever lost a game with great players like Comrie, UPL and Joker on the job.

Apparently we’ve reached the point of the offseason where we rationalize that even our bad players are good. I’m waiting for the “actually Bryson isn’t bad” post to come along.

 

[Irie]

Using his record as the crux of your argument for why he’s not bad is terrible logic, I’m sorry.

Jack Campbell was 21-9-4 this year. We should want him, right? Seems like a stud.

Oilers were not a bottom of the league defensive team across the board in all metrics. The quality of chances and context of the goals against are quite different when watching both goalies.

UPL was 23 this season. That is so young for an NHL goaltender. Milller had a pretty terrible NHL season at 24 for context.

Throwing all metrics and context aside, goaltending at the NHL level is 90% mental. There are only 32 NHL teams and only 32 NHL starters in the world, and realistically, over half of the current NHL starters have question marks to their games.

Sound defensive teams allow their goaltenders to focus on the shooters instead of cheating to hedge against the wide open player standing at the back post. They allow goalies to play farther out and give them a big advantage at covering more of the net. Good defense will limit the screening the goalie has to shift around to follow the puck.

My argument is that in the games where the team played well in front of UPL, limiting the ridiculous high danger chances that this team bleeds, and letting him see the shots, he was pretty good in most cases. His rebound control needs a lot of work, but he actually improved that as the season went on, and some games he absolutely stood on his head against crazy onslaughts.

The problem is that most of the posters here have been raised on Hasek and Miller goaltending expectations, which is crazy unrealistic and no goalie available is going to provide.

We can't watch Comrie face 7 clean break-aways in a game and then watch Levi only face one clean break away over mid-way through the 3rd period and claim that comparing the two situations are remotely similar. Understanding that goalies get pissed when their team plays that way in front of them and even the best NHL goalies can lose focus in those situations is important for evaluation of what goalies can be and what we should expect from them.

If your team is playing solid defensively and your goalie is letting them down, that is obviously on the goalie. Likewise, if the team is playing crappy D and the goalie is not bailing them out, that is not on the goalie, but on the D.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

That doesn’t even make sense.

Joker just spent an entire season in a role he isn’t suited to playing 18:15 atoi at 5v5. His fancy stats broke even. In other words, he played a ton minutes (28th most in league) in a very unsheltered role and did as well as could be expected.

Why would he need to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing? Something that was actually done with the two guys you have more faith in (Boosh/Stillman).

Lol. I don't base all my opinions on players that I have watched closely on stats. Your "the stats!" argument isn't really a winner here anyway.

Below average on the PP when he's gotten the chance, bad on the pk, bad offensively at 5v5, barely average defensively at 5v5, not physical, not a great skater, questionable decisions with the puck under pressure. I repeat, he's not the worst player in the world, but we're not going anywhere as long as he's playing a big role on this team.

What exactly doesn't make sense to you? Is it my opinion that his spot should go to better players? Or just the fact that I said I wouldn't riot if I didn't get my way? Lol. Or was it that I prefer different players, (who btw I said also should be upgraded)?

Which part are you having trouble understanding?

 

[RefsIdeas]

Oilers were not a bottom of the league defensive team across the board in all metrics. The quality of chances and context of the goals against are quite different when watching both goalies.

UPL was 23 this season. That is so young for an NHL goaltender. Milller had a pretty terrible NHL season at 24 for context.

Throwing all metrics and context aside, goaltending at the NHL level is 90% mental. There are only 32 NHL teams and only 32 NHL starters in the world, and realistically, over half of the current NHL starters have question marks to their games.

Sound defensive teams allow their goaltenders to focus on the shooters instead of cheating to hedge against the wide open player standing at the back post. They allow goalies to play farther out and give them a big advantage at covering more of the net. Good defense will limit the screening the goalie has to shift around to follow the puck.

My argument is that in the games where the team played well in front of UPL, limiting the ridiculous high danger chances that this team bleeds, and letting him see the shots, he was pretty good in most cases. His rebound control needs a lot of work, but he actually improved that as the season went on, and some games he absolutely stood on his head against crazy onslaughts.

The problem is that most of the posters here have been raised on Hasek and Miller goaltending expectations, which is crazy unrealistic and no goalie available is going to provide.

We can't watch Comrie face 7 clean break-aways in a game and then watch Levi only face one clean break away over mid-way through the 3rd period and claim that comparing the two situations are remotely similar. Understanding that goalies get pissed when their team plays that way in front of them and even the best NHL goalies can lose focus in those situations is important for evaluation of what goalies can be and what we should expect from them.

If your team is playing solid defensively and your goalie is letting them down, that is obviously on the goalie. Likewise, if the team is playing crappy D and the goalie is not bailing them out, that is not on the goalie, but on the D.

You’ll find no argument from me that our goalies were put in a tough spot more often than not. However it’s hard to rectify some of the basic goalie mechanics that UPL (and Comrie) struggled with on a consistent basis.

I’m not too interested in talking about the handful of good games that UPL or Comrie had. Consistency is key with goaltending - and none of our goaltenders (perhaps sans Levi) performed with any sort of consistency. Yes, UPL is young but he’s shown me enough at both the AHL and NHL level to this point that his game isn’t improving as it should be. You’re free to disagree on that point though!