Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Jim Bob]

Buffalo still looking at Hanifin?

Flames & Sabres Could Be Perfect Trade Partners for Noah Hanifin - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Calgary Flames are believed to still be shopping Noah Hanifin, and may have the perfect trading partner in the Buffalo Sabres.

thehockeywriters.com

That is the definition of an article where a writer for Team A does little to no research into what Team B has and needs and writes a trade idea article from their team's position almost exclusively.

The Sabres have 8 D on one-way deals and he is talking about Krebs and VO for Hanifin. That kind of trade does not work for Buffalo. At all.

The deal would most likely have to involve Stillman to the Flames to open up a LHD spot for Hanifin.

Ideally, it would be something more like Stillman, VO, and a pick or prospect for Hanifin.

 

[toddkaz]

That is the definition of an article where a writer for Team A does little to no research into what Team B has and needs and writes a trade idea article from their team's position almost exclusively.

The Sabres have 8 D on one-way deals and he is talking about Krebs and VO for Hanifin. That kind of trade does not work for Buffalo. At all.

The deal would most likely have to involve Stillman to the Flames to open up a LHD spot for Hanifin.

Ideally, it would be something more like Stillman, VO, and a pick or prospect for Hanifin.

I mean he does say more would be required. Read the article more closely. He talks about building the trade around them not that is the only pieces.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I think if you are lumping Kylington in with Joker and Stillman, you probably need to go back and watch more Kylington. He really is not a risk to be a reclaimation project. He's a good two way defender that can play in the top four with the right partner.

I would not be the slightest bit surprised if a Kylington/Dahlin pairing was more effective with better chemistry than a Hanifin/Dahlin pairing. I do not like either player as Power's partner, to be honest, but for what the team would have to give up to acquire Hanifin, and the extremely likely chance Hanifin walks in a year (imo), I think he is a very bad target. If Adam's somehow got hanifin to extend, I do not even want to think about what that contract would look like.

Kylington would be my Stillman replacement. He is a smart defender, a glue-guy that makes his pairing work, no matter who he is playing with. He is not the top four solution, no, and Sutter did not use him on the PK, so his ability in that role is uncertain, but he's a nice upgrade, and he can play up the lineup if there are injuries. He's better than anything they currently have in the 5 spot down through their depth, and if available the cost shouldn't be crazy.

Hanifin has always played with good defensive partners, and he has always left fans wanting. He was sheltered in Carolina and still played with good players. He's always been serviceable, but he's never been a guy I would want to throw a big contract at, When he leaves Calgary, I think people are going to see that his success has been more a product of partners and the systems he plays in vs him being a truly special player - if you are paying him 6M+ a year, you are going to regret it (this is my opinion and I have no problem going on the record here saying so). And this is all without the high probability of him walking in a year if acquired. It's way too risky imo.

I don't think we see Kylington hugely differently. He's a serviceable bottom pairing guy. He's very much a project as a top 4 guy. He's not what we need IMO. We don't need a direct Stillmsn replacement who brings less toughness/physicality & doesn't PK.

I've already stated that any potential deal for Hanifin should be subject to him signing a reasonable extension. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

I could see Hanifin being utilised in two ways. He could partner Dahlin with a Power/Samuelsson pair behind them. Or they could roll three more evenly balanced pairs in the recent Tampa mould eg:

Samuelsson-Dahlin
Hanifin-Clifton
Power-Johnson

I don't agree with your criticism of Hanifin as a player. Seems like the strongest arguement you are making against him is 'he plays with good players'. I don't think it's a valid reason for criticism & you should ask yourself why he consistently plays with good players...

FYI I don't think he's an elite talent in the mould of Dahlin. But he's an all round solid player, good at both ends, proven playing important minutes, about the right age to fit our timeline. The fact he's worked with Granato previously is also intriguing & if we're interested in acquiring him I'll bet that it's a factor too.

Just out of interest - what do you think the acquisition cost would be?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

That is the definition of an article where a writer for Team A does little to no research into what Team B has and needs and writes a trade idea article from their team's position almost exclusively.

The Sabres have 8 D on one-way deals and he is talking about Krebs and VO for Hanifin. That kind of trade does not work for Buffalo. At all.

The deal would most likely have to involve Stillman to the Flames to open up a LHD spot for Hanifin.

Ideally, it would be something more like Stillman, VO, and a pick or prospect for Hanifin.

You could easily make this type of deal & then make a further deal to balance it out.

IE Hanifin for X then Jokiharju for Y...

 

[Jim Bob]

I mean he does say more would be required. Read the article more closely. He talks about building the trade around them not that is the only pieces.

He said more than Krebs would be required and then he talked about VO. He never said more than Krebs and VO would be required.

You could easily make this type of deal & then make a further deal to balance it out.

IE Hanifin for X then Jokiharju for Y...

Maybe, but I would be surprised if Adams went that route. I think he's happy with the D he has today.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He said more than Krebs would be required and then he talked about VO. He never said more than Krebs and VO would be required.

Maybe, but I would be surprised if Adams went that route. I think he's happy with the D he has today.

I'm firmly in the 'keep Krebs, trade other young guys instead' camp. But Krebs+VO for Hanifin w/agreed extension, no other inclusions, would be a clean W for Adams IMO.

I also don't think any defensive additions make sense - outside of adding a long term bona fide top 4 piece such as an extended Hanifin. Hence my comments above re Kylington.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

He said more than Krebs would be required and then he talked about VO. He never said more than Krebs and VO would be required.

He also never said krebs and vo were enough.

 

[Jim Bob]

He also never said krebs and vo were enough.

When you say player A is not enough. Then you talk about a package of Player A & Player B and never mention that would not be enough, many are going to assume you believe that package is indeed enough.

Regardless of whether he thinks Krebs and VO is enough, his focus on forwards for Hanifin just doesn't work from a Buffalo POV unless you are going to try and pull off multiple trades to try and get things to work. Or, they are going to waive Bryson and still keep 8 D on the roster.

I'm firmly in the 'keep Krebs, trade other young guys instead' camp. But Krebs+VO for Hanifin w/agreed extension, no other inclusions, would be a clean W for Adams IMO.

I also don't think any defensive additions make sense - outside of adding a long term bona fide top 4 piece such as an extended Hanifin. Hence my comments above re Kylington.

I doubt they want to give Hanifin the 6x$6-6.5M AAV extension he would want with him likely being limited in ice time with the way the blueline is built out already.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

When you say player A is not enough. Then you talk about a package of Player A & Player B and never mention that would not be enough, many are going to assume you believe that package is indeed enough.

Regardless of whether he thinks Krebs and VO is enough, his focus on forwards for Hanifin just doesn't work from a Buffalo POV unless you are going to try and pull off multiple trades to try and get things to work. Or, they are going to waive Bryson and still keep 8 D on the roster.


I doubt they want to give Hanifin the 6x$6-6.5M AAV extension he would want with him likely being limited in ice time with the way the blueline is built out already.

But he didn’t say that

“The Sabres do have several other young prospects and/or picks he could inquire about, but another interesting player to consider is Victor Olofsson.”

 

[Jim Bob]

But he didn’t say that

Flames May Require More Than Just Krebs​

While Krebs is certainly a great piece to build this trade around, Conroy is said to have a price locked in place and may require more in order to accept this deal. The Sabres do have several other young prospects and/or picks he could inquire about, but another interesting player to consider is Victor Olofsson. The 28-year-old has scored 20 or more goals in three of his four NHL seasons and is also entering the final year of his contract with a similar $4.75 million cap hit.

While Krebs would undeniably be the biggest get in this proposed deal, Olofsson would give the Flames a reliable scoring option who could play anywhere in their top nine. It would also prevent them from possibly rushing a young prospect such as Matt Coronato and instead give him some time to round out his game in the AHL. With only one season remaining on Olofsson’s deal, Conroy could decide later on whether he wants to extend him after seeing how he adapts to life with his new team.

Where did he say that it might take more than Krebs + VO?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Where did he say that it might take more than Krebs + VO?

Where does it say it won’t? I didn’t say that Joker isnt enough to get cake makar. Are you going to criticize that?

The author never said anything about the final trade. In fact I’d go as far to say that the article isn’t about the trade and is solely about why these 2 teams could make good trade partners.

 

[brian_griffin]

If a deal is to be made, given the pending UFA status of both Kylington and Hanafin, the next-contract of Kylington almost assuredly being cheaper than Hanifin, I'd prefer:

1. Kylington over Hanifin. Kylington should lower the acquisition cost.
2. Keeping Krebs, although I'm not opposed to losing him.
3. If asked, sending an RFA-arbitration-eligible d-man back. Flames have a lot of d-men on expiring contracts who will be UFA-eligible. Take their pick of Joker, Stillman, (Bryson).
4. Helping CGY with cap space, if necessary / possible. That almost assuredly means VO can't be included in the deal.
5. "Buying" some of CGY's cap space if needed via an additional CGY player for a BUF pick / pick swap, etc. That player could be used by BUF while Quinn is out to make moving VO (with or without retention) easier. But I can't see a contract CGY would want to move at forward. All the high-dollar guys have NMC/NTC or modifieds, Lindholm is good value, and Sherangovich was just acquired, so he's not going anywhere.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

If a deal is to be made, given the pending UFA status of both Kylington and Hanafin, the next-contract of Kylington almost assuredly being cheaper than Hanifin, I'd prefer:

1. Kylington over Hanifin. Kylington should lower the acquisition cost.
2. Keeping Krebs, although I'm not opposed to losing him.
3. If asked, sending an RFA-arbitration-eligible d-man back. Flames have a lot of d-men on expiring contracts who will be UFA-eligible. Take their pick of Joker, Stillman, (Bryson).
4. Helping CGY with cap space, if necessary / possible. That almost assuredly means VO can't be included in the deal.
5. "Buying" some of CGY's cap space if needed via an additional CGY player for a BUF pick / pick swap, etc. That player could be used by BUF while Quinn is out to make moving VO (with or without retention) easier. But I can't see a contract CGY would want to move at forward. All the high-dollar guys have NMC/NTC or modifieds, Lindholm is good value, and Sherangovich was just acquired, so he's not going anywhere.

I really don't understand this arguement about acquisition cost:

We could use a proven top 4 guy.

We really don't need to acquire another bottom pairing guy.

Obviously - a proven top 4 guy is going to cost more to acquire.

We have more than enough assets to make that happen though.

If you don't like the player involved - in this case Hanifin - then fine. But this isn't an either/or scenario. If you can't/won't acquire that proven top 4 guy - then stay put.

Acquiring another bottom pair guy is shuffling deckchairs at this point.

 

[Fjordsen]

At this point - a LHS acquisition makes more sense than RHS. Obviously assuming Dahlin plays his off side:

L: Samielsson, Power, Stillman
R: Dahlin, Clifton, Johnson, Jokiharju

And none of these RDs are top 4 players (except Dahlin of course). On the other hand, we already have Power and Samuelsson as LD in the top 4 and I would look for a reliable #5 - #6 LD who is good in defense and on PK, maybe even playing physical game (this is not uncommon for these guys), Soucy type of guy. Although it seems to me that Adams will not look for anyone at all and will see how Johnson will show himself in Rochester. And guys like Hanifin will be a luxury for us, Kylington might be more suitable, but he is not the type of Soucy and such players.

 

[brian_griffin]

I really don't understand this arguement about acquisition cost:

We could use a proven top 4 guy.

We really don't need to acquire another bottom pairing guy.

Obviously - a proven top 4 guy is going to cost more to acquire.

We have more than enough assets to make that happen though.

If you don't like the player involved - in this case Hanifin - then fine. But this isn't an either/or scenario. If you can't/won't acquire that proven top 4 guy - then stay put.

Acquiring another bottom pair guy is shuffling deckchairs at this point.

I'm assuming BUF would try to re-sign either player. For me, that biases toward the cheaper contract.

2024-25
already signed: $40M for 7 F, 2 D.
Dahlin: +$10M = $50M
UFA/RFA D-men or equivalent, excluding CGY acquisition extension: +$12M = $62M
UFA/RFA forwards or equivalent: +$12M = $74M
Goal: +$5M (conservative) = $79M
Bonuses: +~$1M = $80M

Cap guess: $84M

Cap space will be easier to fit Kylington (or similar) than Hanafin (or similar).

 

[Jim Bob]

I really don't understand this arguement about acquisition cost:

We could use a proven top 4 guy.

We really don't need to acquire another bottom pairing guy.

Obviously - a proven top 4 guy is going to cost more to acquire.

We have more than enough assets to make that happen though.

If you don't like the player involved - in this case Hanifin - then fine. But this isn't an either/or scenario. If you can't/won't acquire that proven top 4 guy - then stay put.

Acquiring another bottom pair guy is shuffling deckchairs at this point.

I doubt that Adams feels the need to add a top 4 D today after signing Clifton and EJohnson this summer.

 

[Jim Bob]

The best 'under-the-radar' roster option for each NHL team in 2023-24

A look at players who weren't mentioned frequently as roster options this summer but lurk on the NHL fringe or in AHL feature role.

theathletic.com

Buffalo Sabres: RW Lukas Rousek​

Rousek is 24, shoots left and plays right wing. He has just one full North American season (76 games with 16 goals and 56 points with the Rochester Americans of the AHL) on his resume, but it was quality. He is blocked on the wing in Buffalo by several top-flight NHLers (Alex Tuch, Victor Olofsson, JJ Peterka and Kyle Okposo, as well as Jack Quinn when he’s healthy) but has NHL talent. His 40 assists as an AHL freshman were an exceptional number. Buffalo has so much quality and quantity in one of the deepest systems in the NHL that Rousek could slip through the cracks and land on another team by this time next season.

He isn't an under the radar guy for me.

I think RyJo would be, though.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

And none of these RDs are top 4 players (except Dahlin of course). On the other hand, we already have Power and Samuelsson as LD in the top 4 and I would look for a reliable #5 - #6 LD who is good in defense and on PK, maybe even playing physical game (this is not uncommon for these guys), Soucy type of guy. Although it seems to me that Adams will not look for anyone at all and will see how Johnson will show himself in Rochester. And guys like Hanifin will be a luxury for us, Kylington might be more suitable, but he is not the type of Soucy and such players.

Some of you guys get way too worried about handedness. To the point where you let it overrule everything else.

I posted above two different scenarios where Hanifin could easily fit into our group & he'd be a key piece in either of those.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm assuming BUF would try to re-sign either player. For me, that biases toward the cheaper contract.

2024-25
already signed: $40M for 7 F, 2 D.
Dahlin: +$10M = $50M
UFA/RFA D-men or equivalent, excluding CGY acquisition extension: +$12M = $62M
UFA/RFA forwards or equivalent: +$12M = $74M
Goal: +$5M (conservative) = $79M
Bonuses: +~$1M = $80M

Cap guess: $84M

Cap space will be easier to fit Kylington (or similar) than Hanafin (or similar).

Well - you have to pay better players more money!

I don't see any problems fitting Hanifin long term at what I'd expect it would take (circa 6 to 7m AAV).

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I doubt that Adams feels the need to add a top 4 D today after signing Clifton and EJohnson this summer.

We have had this conversation before & i would generally agree that i think we're done. At least for now.

But I'd repeat that adding a bona fide top 4 player would make a lot more sense than adding yet another bottom pair type (which both Clifton & Johnson are, until they prove otherwise).

Especially when we're talking about a guy our HC has previous experience with.

 

[Fjordsen]

Some of you guys get way too worried about handedness. To the point where you let it overrule everything else.

I posted above two different scenarios where Hanifin could easily fit into our group & he'd be a key piece in either of those.

We have had this conversation before & i would generally agree that i think we're done. At least for now.

But I'd repeat that adding a bona fide top 4 player would make a lot more sense than adding yet another bottom pair type (which both Clifton & Johnson are, until they prove otherwise).

Especially when we're talking about a guy our HC has previous experience with.

So Adams won't be adding anyone, but will see if Clifton can be the top 4 RD we need. If that plan doesn't work out he might add some top 4 D to TDL or next summer.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Pesce (no need to rehash that) would be the obvious target if Adams is hunting for a top-4 d-man, not Hanifin or Kylington. He'd be the ideal partner for Power. But that would likely mean one of the newly acquired Clifton or E Johnson switching sides to displace Stillman.

I just don't see it. I think Adams is done modifying the defense, for now.

 

[Chainshot]

The main board has a thread talking about a possible Hanafin for Fabbro deal between the Preds and Flames. That's kind of different than Krebs, Vic and something else.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

The main board has a thread talking about a possible Hanafin for Fabbro deal between the Preds and Flames. That's kind of different than Krebs, Vic and something else.

E5?

I assume the Preds would have to add.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Further, I think that we already have a defensive liability scoring only forward (VO) who plays the Tarasenko role.

And I think Quinn will take his spot back when he's healthy. Giving one of the young guys a chance to prove they can score and be a more well rounded player, is better for this team long term than having two $5M AAV players on the bench in the playoffs.

I used him as an example. The reality is we are probably a bubble playoff team and depth matters. You don't like Taresenko fine, i’d like Tatar personally.