Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Doug Prishpreed]

Regarding Olofsson - Adams was happy enough having him around towards the end of last season in the pressbox...

With a healthy Quinn - there is no way he makes the current LU. And that's without Kulich, Savoie, Benson too.

In other words, VO may sit for Quinn, but he’s not sitting for Kulich.

 

[TageGod]

I still can't believe there aren't any more moves. We need to move out like 3 D.

 

[Gras]

I still can't believe there aren't any more moves. We need to move out like 3 D.

Yes lets get rid of all our depth.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I could see both Benson and Savoie on the opening night roster (maybe not lineup). Benson is a long shot, but Savoie I’d bet money on.

Not a lot of money, but like 20 bucks!

 

[TehDoak]

Bryson is easy to Roch, the problem is finding a team that wants and can fit VO and Joker with their cap.

Ideally Id like to move out VO and then sign Tatar.

I think they plan to carry 8 D do moving Joker isnt as pressing.

8 D-men and 3 goalies?

That certainly is a choice

 

[brian_griffin]

@TageGod (including other's replies with hopefully useful additional info)

Savoie impressed out of camp last year. It is time for him to move up leagues. He will be on the roster and get games and if needed, a stint in roch then world juniors but he is getting his shot this year and Benson will get the exact same next year.

He can't go to Roch

As @Gras noted, Savoie, having been drafted out of the WHL, cannot go to Rochester until his 20th birthday. If he was born 1 day earlier (12/31/2003 vs. his actual 1/1/2004 birthday), his "hockey age" to start this season would be considered 20 and he could start this coming season with ROC in the AHL.

KA will not have him around to sit in the box. He will play or KA will move him. Greenway was always

Conditioning stint apparently.

Like has been mentioned previously, I doubt they give Savoie the mess that was the Shane Wright treatment last season.

I think he either forces his way onto the roster in camp or he heads back to the WHL, likely with Benson.

I agree with @Jim Bob.

Per the above, Savoie turns 20 on 1/1/24. That's when he could go to Rochester. The alternative of 9 NHL games, then a 5-game / 14-day conditioning stint, then eventually landing in Rochester at the new year leaves (IMO) WAY TOO MUCH "idle" time for Savoie. An NHL stint then a pre-20yo AHL stint would have him playing ~1 NHL game per week for the first two months of the season, then the AHL, then ~6 weeks or so of nothing / practice only until the new year. That's a lot of time just to be (only) practicing in BUF, both in between games and for those 6 "in limbo" weeks.

Edit: Given his January 1 birthday, Savoie likely has known this pending 19/20yo dilemma since the point in time he / his family realized Matthew had a realistic shot at a pro career. It made him "old" for many years, with the knowledge he gets "trapped" this Q4, 2023. Whatever transpires, the scenario has been mapped out with the other options for a while.

 

[TageGod]

Yes lets get rid of all our depth.

A little dramatic.

Power Dahlin Samuelsson Clifton Johnson Joker Boosh Stillman Bryson. Need to at least waive Bryson.

 

[TageGod]

@TageGod (including other's replies with hopefully useful additional info)



As @Gras noted, Savoie, having been drafted out of the WHL, cannot go to Rochester until his 20th birthday. If he was born 1 day earlier (12/31/2003 vs. his actual 1/1/2004 birthday), his "hockey age" to start this season would be considered 20 and he could start this coming season with ROC in the AHL.



I agree with @Jim Bob.

Per the above, Savoie turns 20 on 1/1/24. That's when he could go to Rochester. The alternative of 9 NHL games, then a 5-game / 14-day conditioning stint, then eventually landing in Rochester at the new year leaves (IMO) WAY TOO MUCH "idle" time for Savoie. An NHL stint then a pre-20yo AHL stint would have him playing ~1 NHL game for the first two months of the season, then the AHL, then ~6 weeks or so until the new year. That's a lot of time just to be (only) practicing in BUF, both in between games and for those 6 "in limbo" weeks.

He will be on the roster, maybe Quinn style sitting here and there when struggling.

 

[brian_griffin]

He will be on the roster, maybe Quinn style sitting here and there when struggling.

Sure. I'm not disputing your confidence. Would be a great "problem" for the Sabres to have - too much talent and not enough roster slots. I'm just saying it's doubtful Savoie is in Rochester until he is truly age 20yo on 1/1/2004. I acknowledge there's a chance he never plays in the AHL (or maybe he's assigned on paper to Rochester for their Clear Day roster in the Spring, or whatever the equivalent of that is) for his pro hockey career.

 

[Jim Bob]

@TageGod (including other's replies with hopefully useful additional info)



As @Gras noted, Savoie, having been drafted out of the WHL, cannot go to Rochester until his 20th birthday. If he was born 1 day earlier (12/31/2003 vs. his actual 1/1/2004 birthday), his "hockey age" to start this season would be considered 20 and he could start this coming season with ROC in the AHL.




I agree with @Jim Bob.

Per the above, Savoie turns 20 on 1/1/24. That's when he could go to Rochester. The alternative of 9 NHL games, then a 5-game / 14-day conditioning stint, then eventually landing in Rochester at the new year leaves (IMO) WAY TOO MUCH "idle" time for Savoie. An NHL stint then a pre-20yo AHL stint would have him playing ~1 NHL game per week for the first two months of the season, then the AHL, then ~6 weeks or so of nothing / practice only until the new year. That's a lot of time just to be (only) practicing in BUF, both in between games and for those 6 "in limbo" weeks.

Edit: Given his January 1 birthday, Savoie likely has known this pending 19/20yo dilemma since the point in time he / his family realized Matthew had a realistic shot at a pro career. It made him "old" for many years, with the knowledge he gets "trapped" this Q4, 2023. Whatever transpires, the scenario has been mapped out with the other options for a while.

@dotcommunism would be the expert in this area, but I do not believe that Savoie could go down to Rochester as a normal assignment after his birthday this season. I believe he is in the NHL or WHL boat for the entire WHL season, like last season.

 

[brian_griffin]

@dotcommunism would be the expert in this area, but I do not believe that Savoie could go down to Rochester as a normal assignment after his birthday this season. I believe he is in the NHL or WHL boat for the entire WHL season, like last season.

My reading of the rules (multiple sources, but that's not a guarantee since they could be "citing" each other) suggests my interpretation is correct. For CHL-drafted players, they are AHL-eligible at the start of the season if their 20th birthday is between Sept 15th and Dec 31st of that year, or any time they turn 20yo Jan 1 or thereafter of that season. There is no rule requiring a 20yo player drafted out of the CHL to wait until the following season before exercising that "hey-I-turned-20yo-last-season-so-let-me-play" eligibility.

Edit: The NHL-CHL transfer agreement applies only to 18 and 19yo players. Once a player drafted out of the CHL turns 20, it no longer applies. A player can be deemed a 20yo for purpose of applying the agreement before they actually turn 20yo (The 9/15/20XY through 12/31/20XY birthday window.)

 

[Gras]

8 D-men and 3 goalies?

That certainly is a choice

With the proximity of Roch and the schedule they can get away with 12-8-3 for the first 2 months of the season. But hopefully its 13-8-2 with either Levi in Roch or Comrie waived.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I could see both Benson and Savoie on the opening night roster (maybe not lineup). Benson is a long shot, but Savoie I’d bet money on.

Not a lot of money, but like 20 bucks!

Ill raise you to $40 that it's Kulich:p

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

My guess at Granato's opening night lineup.

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-Olofsson
Greenway-Mittelstadt-Savoie
Girgensons-Krebs-Okposo
Scratch Jost

Samuelsson-Dahlin
Power-Clifton
Stillman-Erik Johnson
Scratch Jokiharju, Lyubushkin

Levi-Luukkonen

 

[Rowley Birkin]

In other words, VO may sit for Quinn, but he’s not sitting for Kulich.

Well i guess i agree. But i see it more as Kulich not ultimately replacing Quinn.

VO is at absolute best - a placeholder there. Nothing more.

 

[Djp]

It is interesting to see how almost no one here thinks Savoie will even be on the opening night roster. Are we really going to have 0 prospects on the NHL roster this year with how many are waiting for shots? There is no way.

I’ve been saying it since day 1 that hed start on the team in October at least for 9 games

Savoie impressed out of camp last year. It is time for him to move up leagues. He will be on the roster and get games and if needed, a stint in roch then world juniors but he is getting his shot this year and Benson will get the exact same next year.

He was on the Final send down list yo set the 23 man roster last year.

Id prefer to slot Mitts as 3C since he performed well.

I want more than 1 off line the team needs to worry about.

Skinner-Thompson-xxc
xx-Mitts-Tuch
xxx-Krebs-Cozens
Girgs-Savoie-KO/Jost

xxx= Peterka, Olofsson, greenway, Quinn

if Savoie is sent down then you coukd have Krebs play at 4C and Cozens play 3C

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ill raise you to $40 that it's Kulich:p

I think he’s destined for Rochester! But him and Ryan Johnson will get called up at some point….and never go back down!

 

[Irie]

My reading of the rules (multiple sources, but that's not a guarantee since they could be "citing" each other) suggests my interpretation is correct. For CHL-drafted players, they are AHL-eligible at the start of the season if their 20th birthday is between Sept 15th and Dec 31st of that year, or any time they turn 20yo Jan 1 or thereafter of that season. There is no rule requiring a 20yo player drafted out of the CHL to wait until the following season before exercising that "hey-I-turned-20yo-last-season-so-let-me-play" eligibility.

Edit: The NHL-CHL transfer agreement applies only to 18 and 19yo players. Once a player drafted out of the CHL turns 20, it no longer applies. A player can be deemed a 20yo for purpose of applying the agreement before they actually turn 20yo (The 9/15/20XY through 12/31/20XY birthday window.)

Actually, the turning 20 on January 1st does not make Savoie eligible for the AHL in January unfortunately.

It is all "season based" on age the player will be at the end of that calendar year, (at the start of the season) and that status holds through the full hockey season.

 

[dotcommunism]

My reading of the rules (multiple sources, but that's not a guarantee since they could be "citing" each other) suggests my interpretation is correct. For CHL-drafted players, they are AHL-eligible at the start of the season if their 20th birthday is between Sept 15th and Dec 31st of that year, or any time they turn 20yo Jan 1 or thereafter of that season. There is no rule requiring a 20yo player drafted out of the CHL to wait until the following season before exercising that "hey-I-turned-20yo-last-season-so-let-me-play" eligibility.

Edit: The NHL-CHL transfer agreement applies only to 18 and 19yo players. Once a player drafted out of the CHL turns 20, it no longer applies. A player can be deemed a 20yo for purpose of applying the agreement before they actually turn 20yo (The 9/15/20XY through 12/31/20XY birthday window.)

Obviously the CBA definitions are not directly relevant here, as the CBA is a distinct document from the NHL/CHL agreement, and even the CBA has multiple different definitions of "player age" that it uses, but one thing that is consistent is that "player age" is based on the player's age on a specific date. I would expect that player age as it relates to the transfer agreement is also defined to be the player's age on a given date. (i.e. if a player is 19 on the specified date, then he is considered 19 for the entirety of that league year regardless of what his actual age is at the time)

 

[Irie]

I think it is a yes and no situation for me.

The skill guys won't replace the 4th line guys. Some people through out a lineup with 4 scoring lines and that just is not going to happen.

So yes, trades are going to need to happen. But, I do not believe that there needs to be "big" trades. The roster evolution could be less "big" moves and more tweaks.

Greenway could end up replacing one of Girgensons or Okposo on the 4th line and open up a top 9 wing spot for a kid.

VO moving along opens up a second top 9 wing spot for a kid.

I think the biggest move might be moving Quinn or JJP for an upgrade over Jost and Krebs+ for help in goal that allows the lineup for next year to look like this:

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Savoie-Cozens-Benson
Kulich-Mitts-Quinn
Greenway-TBD-Rousek

Totally agree with the first 5 paragraphs, but after Peterka's performance at the Worlds, I can't imagine moving him for a 4th line center. He is still only 21, and at this stage, I would put money on him becoming a top line player over just having quality middle six upside.

He is the type of player you hold onto unless someone offers you the moon(relatively speaking). Let him play out his ELC and then see what his contract status looks like in regards to the cap situation.

Peterka's age fits better in the current mix, and moving him to make room to develop a teenager when they have so many promising young forwards in the pipe does not make a whole lot of sense to me. Let the kids marinade in the system and slide those ELCs. It isn't really bad for their longterm development, and having those ELC options pushed out as the cap becomes and issue will be a godsend.

 

[brian_griffin]

Actually, the turning 20 on January 1st does not make Savoie eligible for the AHL in January unfortunately.

It is all "season based" on age the player will be at the end of that calendar year, (at the start of the season) and that status holds through the full hockey season.

Obviously the CBA definitions are not directly relevant here, as the CBA is a distinct document from the NHL/CHL agreement, and even the CBA has multiple different definitions of "player age" that it uses, but one thing that is consistent is that "player age" is based on the player's age on a specific date. I would expect that player age as it relates to the transfer agreement is also defined to be the player's age on a given date. (i.e. if a player is 19 on the specified date, then he is considered 19 for the entirety of that league year regardless of what his actual age is at the time)

I am wrong, you (and others above) are right.

Reading several other sources with specific examples, Savoie counts as a 19yo for this entire season, and under the "age rule" (and assuming he does not spend the season with BUF) would not be eligible for AHL play (until his CHL team season is over).

There is, however, an exception. If a player completes (4) Junior seasons, which Savoie has, he would be eligible for the AHL when he turns 20yo. So we're back to some level of uncertainty. I expect once training camp opens, the Buffalo media will not ask for clarification on Savoie's AHL eligibility.

 

[Irie]

I am wrong, you (and others above) are right.

Reading several other sources with specific examples, Savoie counts as a 19yo for this entire season, and under the "age rule" (and assuming he does not spend the season with BUF) would not be eligible for AHL play (until his CHL team season is over).

There is, however, an exception. If a player completes (4) Junior seasons, which Savoie has, he would be eligible for the AHL when he turns 20yo. So we're back to some level of uncertainty. I expect once training camp opens, the Buffalo media will not ask for clarification on Savoie's AHL eligibility.

I believe Savoie does not meet the 4 season criteria due to the fact that he went and played for Dubuque in the USHL during covid, skipping the entire 20-21 WHL season - and since the WHL actually had a season, I do not believe there is any loophole he could argue that would make him eligible, (unlike Wright, who missed the CHL year due to the OHL canceling their season - Wright has an argument that that missed season should count as a season played).

 

[Mattilaus]

I still can't believe there aren't any more moves. We need to move out like 3 D.

Your words to Adams' ears.

 

[Djp]

I am wrong, you (and others above) are right.

Reading several other sources with specific examples, Savoie counts as a 19yo for this entire season, and under the "age rule" (and assuming he does not spend the season with BUF) would not be eligible for AHL play (until his CHL team season is over).

There is, however, an exception. If a player completes (4) Junior seasons, which Savoie has, he would be eligible for the AHL when he turns 20yo. So we're back to some level of uncertainty. I expect once training camp opens, the Buffalo media will not ask for clarification on Savoie's AHL eligibility.

if Covid year didn’t occur — I look at it as he would be buffalo exclusive property because he would have 4 yrs in CHL even though he was WJC eligible.

that’s why I feel he gets at least a 9 game October try out This year before getting sent back.

 

[Matt Ress]

I am wrong, you (and others above) are right.

Reading several other sources with specific examples, Savoie counts as a 19yo for this entire season, and under the "age rule" (and assuming he does not spend the season with BUF) would not be eligible for AHL play (until his CHL team season is over).

There is, however, an exception. If a player completes (4) Junior seasons, which Savoie has, he would be eligible for the AHL when he turns 20yo. So we're back to some level of uncertainty. I expect once training camp opens, the Buffalo media will not ask for clarification on Savoie's AHL eligibility.

Irie pointed it out but I believe his exceptional season didn't count because there weren't enough GP and he played in a different league during COVID which sucks that he's essentially being penalized for playing the most hockey that he could. The CHL could make an exception but they may want to set precedent for the next pandemic inducing limited season.