Sabres Management and Coaching Thread

[BowieSabresFan]

Bogo's been playing through injuries his entire career.

The Bylsma effect trumps all variables.

No, it doesn't, and you hurt your own argument by not considering all factors.

Blysma could be a better coach, but it's not 100% Blysma.

 

[Jame]

No, it doesn't, and you hurt your own argument by not considering all factors.

Blysma could be a better coach, but it's not 100% Blysma.

I didn't say it was 100% Bylsma, i said he is far and away the biggest factor in the drop off in performance from formerly proven top 4 defensemen.

Bogo is a perfect example, as he's always played through injuries and missed time.

 

[Moskau]

Just so I have this right. We were supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender THIS SEASON and we were supposed to do it with Thatcher Demko in nets?

 

[Samsonite23]

Just so I have this right. We were supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender THIS SEASON and we were supposed to do it with Thatcher Demko in nets?

Thought the exact same thing.

 

[TehDoak]

Re: The rebuild.

It really depends on how you define rebuild.

We've completed the strip down and laying of the foundation (Eichel/Reinhart/Risto), we've supplemented that core with veteran pieces (Kane/O'Reilly/Okposo). However, I don't think we have a fully functional core group to contend with.

The problem is, the D is still severely lacking. Even if you consider McCabe a core piece (i don't at this point) we still need at minimum one more d-man to really have a foundation there. So, we've gotten, IMHO, the hardest piece to get, thats the #1 Franchise center. However, if Eichel is the foundation, then we still need structural beams in place on the blueline.

Nearly all contenders are a group of 3-4 core forwards and 3 d-men. We don't have that yet. So, IMHO, the rebuild is still 'active'

 

[ThunderD]

Re: The rebuild.

It really depends on how you define rebuild.

We've completed the strip down and laying of the foundation (Eichel/Reinhart/Risto), we've supplemented that core with veteran pieces (Kane/O'Reilly/Okposo). However, I don't think we have a fully functional core group to contend with.

The problem is, the D is still severely lacking. Even if you consider McCabe a core piece (i don't at this point) we still need at minimum one more d-man to really have a foundation there. So, we've gotten, IMHO, the hardest piece to get, thats the #1 Franchise center. However, if Eichel is the foundation, then we still need structural beams in place on the blueline.

Nearly all contenders are a group of 3-4 core forwards and 3 d-men. We don't have that yet. So, IMHO, the rebuild is still 'active'

Another thing to consider is that d-men take longer to develop. Risto was drafted a year or two before Eichel and Reinhart. McCabe a year before him. If Guhle plays for us next season it puts things in a much different perspective. I am happy for the most part with what Murray is doing and it is still active. The only thing I wish he had done differently is in that 2nd round of '14 passed on Cornel and Karabacek and taken d-men there like McKeown and the guy that went to Anaheim who were the bpa at D. This would've helped with that development time for d-men as at least one of those 2 would make it it seems.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Dude ... seriously?

Most posters enjoy reading the majority of what others type. Unless ones mouth (fingers) get ahead of their brain.

Then you can expect push back.

We all .... wait wait wait ... i mean 99% of us want the Sabres to do well and win again. This push back has nothing to do with that.

When you (and a few others) let the mouth (fingers) get ahead of the brain, it comes across as ignorant, or illogical or both. Think it through before typing.... Some don't have that ability. But i think you do.

I like (mostly) what Murray has done since he's arrived. I dislike (mostly) what Bylsma has done since he's arrived. Can you understand the difference? Is that illogical to you?

I love when people push back, I especially love when people disagree. Im not here to pump my chest out, I'm here to have conversation. Who wants to talk to people that always agree with you? 99% of what I post is simply to start a discussion.

 

[DatGuy]

Re: The rebuild.

It really depends on how you define rebuild.

We've completed the strip down and laying of the foundation (Eichel/Reinhart/Risto), we've supplemented that core with veteran pieces (Kane/O'Reilly/Okposo). However, I don't think we have a fully functional core group to contend with.

The problem is, the D is still severely lacking. Even if you consider McCabe a core piece (i don't at this point) we still need at minimum one more d-man to really have a foundation there. So, we've gotten, IMHO, the hardest piece to get, thats the #1 Franchise center. However, if Eichel is the foundation, then we still need structural beams in place on the blueline.

Nearly all contenders are a group of 3-4 core forwards and 3 d-men. We don't have that yet. So, IMHO, the rebuild is still 'active'

I have said it before on hear but if you look at the past, 10 years, each Stanley Cup Champion has had an elite center (Crosby, Kopitar, Toews, bergeron, datsyuk) and in many cases a top tier second line center. An Elite Defenceman (Letang, Doughty, Chara, Keith, Lindstrom) and finally an Elite Goalie (Murray / Fleury, Quick, Crawford, Rask, Hask / Osgood).

We could add coaching in there but I think 80% of this board would discount Dan the Man, but, I digress.

The only elite talent we currently have is a Center. That's not to say Lehner or Risto can not become elite players in the NHL. As of right now Lehner is not going to win enough games, by himself, to make a difference; and Risto is not going to carry the flow of a hockey game. Those are things you need, multiple difference makers.

Look at St. Louis, they are a very good team and have been for years. Yet, they can never get over the hump. They are missing that Superstar Center. In Washington its that Elite D. We can look at Nashville, they are missing that Elite Center, RyJo just didn't work out. The list goes on.

Well, that's just my perspective.

 

[Aladyyn]

Did you really just call Jonathan Quick and Chris Osgood "elite goalies"?

 

[truthbluth]

Did you really just call Jonathan Quick and Chris Osgood "elite goalies"?

And Crawford.

 

[Jame]

I love when people push back, I especially love when people disagree. Im not here to pump my chest out, I'm here to have conversation. Who wants to talk to people that always agree with you? 99% of what I post is simply to start a discussion.

I think the push back you're seeing is largely because you continue to re-start the same discussion over and over. You've chosen to learn nothing from that discussion, yet for some reason you want to rehash it every week.

 

[Aladyyn]

And Crawford.

Well he wasn't when he won the first Cup but he's been elite for some time now.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Just so I have this right. We were supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender THIS SEASON and we were supposed to do it with Thatcher Demko in nets?

No but whatever way you want to spin Murray being good at his job. About 3-4 years back several posters agreed that around 2016 this team would be a contender. I seem to recall Dream '16 being a user title of a pretty prominent poster here.

And the Demko part has nothing to do with the Sabres being contenders, I simply said if Murray was willing to draft a goalie at 61 then why not draft the best one at 31 instead of a guy with a limited ceiling. Whether it's Demko or Samsonov the Sabres could have a high end goalie prospect in the system and simply acquired a stop gap. Acquiring Lehner was supposed to accelerate the rebuild, instead we are still bad and traded away a first in an elite draft.

 

[truthbluth]

Well he wasn't when he won the first Cup but he's been elite for some time now.

That first cup run was evidence that you don't need a great goaltender, just a hot goaltender.

 

[sabrebuild]

Well he wasn't when he won the first Cup but he's been elite for some time now.

I think the money they spend on him is criminal. They would be far better served with the Darlings of the world get zoned in with an elite team and having an additional 4+ million dollar defense man on their team.

Crawford's caphit is absurd for what he offers and I know his stats are good.

 

[sabrebuild]

I love when people push back, I especially love when people disagree. Im not here to pump my chest out, I'm here to have conversation. Who wants to talk to people that always agree with you? 99% of what I post is simply to start a discussion.

Platitude puke.

 

[Jame]

No but whatever way you want to spin Murray being good at his job. About 3-4 years back several posters agreed that around 2016 this team would be a contender. I seem to recall Dream '16 being a user title of a pretty prominent poster here.

And the Demko part has nothing to do with the Sabres being contenders, I simply said if Murray was willing to draft a goalie at 61 then why not draft the best one at 31 instead of a guy with a limited ceiling. Whether it's Demko or Samsonov the Sabres could have a high end goalie prospect in the system and simply acquired a stop gap. Acquiring Lehner was supposed to accelerate the rebuild, instead we are still bad and traded away a first in an elite draft.

We are about right where I expected to be in regards to "Dream 16", which started in the Lindy Ruff era and was an accurate projection of what we needed to do to rebuild (tear down the old core, tank, etc).

Unfortunately... Bylsma

 

[Sabre Dance]

I think the push back you're seeing is largely because you continue to re-start the same discussion over and over. You've chosen to learn nothing from that discussion, yet for some reason you want to rehash it every week.

I have a question, why are there so many retreads in the NHL? Why do coaches fired 2-3 times continue to get jobs?

Only in the NHL can a coach be fired entering the playoffs. I'm sure it makes sense to you but I will never understand why NHL coaches are treated the way they are. Lose a few games of an 82 game season and you can be gone, just like that. I don't understand it. Great record, gone, who cares.

 

[OkimLom]

No but whatever way you want to spin Murray being good at his job. About 3-4 years back several posters agreed that around 2016 this team would be a contender. I seem to recall Dream '16 being a user title of a pretty prominent poster here.

And the Demko part has nothing to do with the Sabres being contenders, I simply said if Murray was willing to draft a goalie at 61 then why not draft the best one at 31 instead of a guy with a limited ceiling. Whether it's Demko or Samsonov the Sabres could have a high end goalie prospect in the system and simply acquired a stop gap. Acquiring Lehner was supposed to accelerate the rebuild, instead we are still bad and traded away a first in an elite draft.

Nope. A lot of the speculation was 2018-2019 they would be a contender.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

A lot of Stars fans say similar things to what Sabres fans say about Bylsma:

-System sucks.
-In December, their posters were saying he lost the room.
-Too many odd-man rushes against.
-I've seen their analytics bloggers on Twitter bemoaning his usage.
-Mishandling young defensemen - they would go crazy that Jordie Benn would be in the lineup over guys like Johns and Nemeth earlier this season.
-Many have blamed him for Klingberg's regression. Specifically, that Ruff wants him to be a two-way horse rather than allowing him to play to his strengths. (Some may say it's Myers-esque.)

I'm not crapping on Lindy, and I've watched the Stars maybe five times this season, but these are the complaints - in addition to goaltending. Lindy's a good guy, but beyond nostalgia, I don't see any reason to bring him back.

His reaction to replacing Gogo/Demers with Hamhuis has been eerily similar to that of the Lallinder/Leo swap for sure.

Before doing some digging on Klingberg's situation I was more open to Ruff's return for a caretaker season or two, because a bunch of his strengths line up with the roster, but the risk of yet another coach misassessing Ristolainen is too great to take on.

Good Ruff things (that our next coach should probably do):
- structuring lines to let his best players play offense
- rolling a top 9 vs top 6 / bottom 6
- empowering the defense to activate
- primarily sheltering the #1 offensive pairing vs the bottom pairing

 

[Baccus]

No but whatever way you want to spin Murray being good at his job. About 3-4 years back several posters agreed that around 2016 this team would be a contender. I seem to recall Dream '16 being a user title of a pretty prominent poster here.

Wow, 3-4 years ago some random interwebs posters made up a random prediction based on basically nothing, so the Sabres should probably fire Murray and start over again! Also somebody changed their username! Exciting times.

Is Kane still a cap dump?

 

[joshjull]

You can make it about me all you want, but I just want to see the Sabres winning again.

You make it about you

Also not surprised you addressed nothing.

 

[wshahbaz]

this entire organization is a mess minus a few good players

Pegula hired the wrong people, from top to bottom. He has got to start over. no more excuses

 

[joshjull]

A lot of Stars fans say similar things to what Sabres fans say about Bylsma:

-System sucks.
-In December, their posters were saying he lost the room.
-Too many odd-man rushes against.
-I've seen their analytics bloggers on Twitter bemoaning his usage.
-Mishandling young defensemen - they would go crazy that Jordie Benn would be in the lineup over guys like Johns and Nemeth earlier this season.
-Many have blamed him for Klingberg's regression. Specifically, that Ruff wants him to be a two-way horse rather than allowing him to play to his strengths. (Some may say it's Myers-esque.)

I'm not crapping on Lindy, and I've watched the Stars maybe five times this season, but these are the complaints - in addition to goaltending. Lindy's a good guy, but beyond nostalgia, I don't see any reason to bring him back.

Thanks for the response.

Not sure I agree about Klingberg

 

[Myllz]

this entire organization is a mess minus a few good players

Pegula hired the wrong people, from top to bottom. He has got to start over. no more excuses

Who are the right people?