Speculation: Sabres at the Trade Deadline
- Thread starter MayDayMayDay
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BuiltTagonTough
Stand still laddy!
Nobody's untouchable. But a few people Id have to be overwhelmed at the return to move.
That category:
Ehrhoff
Myers
Vanek
Hodgson
Grigorenko
(Roster players only, don't feel like parsing out prospects right now)
This deadline:
Move out as many as you can of Leopold, Regehr, Gerbe, Brennan.
Attempt to acquire one or two more 1sts this year, go hard after Bernier, and if you get him move out Miller and Enroth and sign a decent backup. I've got no problem keeping Miller, but at this point he'll be out of his prime before the rebuild is done.
Also, kidnap O'Reilly if that's what it takes.
That category:
Ehrhoff
Myers
Vanek
Hodgson
Grigorenko
(Roster players only, don't feel like parsing out prospects right now)
This deadline:
Move out as many as you can of Leopold, Regehr, Gerbe, Brennan.
Attempt to acquire one or two more 1sts this year, go hard after Bernier, and if you get him move out Miller and Enroth and sign a decent backup. I've got no problem keeping Miller, but at this point he'll be out of his prime before the rebuild is done.
Also, kidnap O'Reilly if that's what it takes.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 36,794
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Boyes had plenty of opportunity to succeed. He failed.
He played his way onto the 4th line.
And as I remember this forum blew up whenever Lindy gave him another shot in top 6 or on PP.
The only team that has ever really "blown up" it's roster in recent memory was the Capitals in 2004. They dealt Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, and Konowalchuk for some spare parts, Laich, Fleischman, and Green.
Nylander had two more ppg season after that trade, Lang had three solid seasons, Gonchar is still a pretty good puck mover, Jagr still an impact forward, Konwalchuk had to retire because of a heart issue (though wasn't slowing down). Bondra was the only one who was pretty much shot by the time they got rid of everyone.
If we're going to get this kind of return for Vanek, Miller, and Pominville I'd rather not go that route. I mean it's always possible that a great deal comes a long for one of them, but its not a certainty. They're our more consistent players and we need more guys like them; not fewer.
I'm ready to move Stafford, Gerbe, Hecht, Kaleta, Regehr, Leopold, Sekera, Weber and Enroth. If they want to chase the #1 pick they will likely be bad enough just by trading depth guys; I don't think they need to move their stars.
Nylander had two more ppg season after that trade, Lang had three solid seasons, Gonchar is still a pretty good puck mover, Jagr still an impact forward, Konwalchuk had to retire because of a heart issue (though wasn't slowing down). Bondra was the only one who was pretty much shot by the time they got rid of everyone.
If we're going to get this kind of return for Vanek, Miller, and Pominville I'd rather not go that route. I mean it's always possible that a great deal comes a long for one of them, but its not a certainty. They're our more consistent players and we need more guys like them; not fewer.
I'm ready to move Stafford, Gerbe, Hecht, Kaleta, Regehr, Leopold, Sekera, Weber and Enroth. If they want to chase the #1 pick they will likely be bad enough just by trading depth guys; I don't think they need to move their stars.
Push Dr Tracksuit
Gerstmann 3:16
- Jun 9, 2012
- 13,531
- 3,719
Can this roster be turned around in 2 seasons? Yes in mystical magical land where every trade gets excepted and no one overvalued anything (both GMs). I see it more likely taking 4 years before this team is competitive at a stanely cup level. Is holding onto Vanek and Pommers worth it knowing that best case scenario they will be 31 when we make the playoffs next? (just good enough to make it not contenders) If you answered yes will they be impact players for the next 3 years after that or will it be another 1-2 year shot and then scramble for eighth for a decade? I'm tired of being disappointed by the same names. There's less of them now but the results aren't changing. If anything things are getting worse.
Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
I'm with you on this. If you do move our better older players, you do it for proven younger players. If you move guys like Vanek and Poms for picks or recent draftees you could easily end up with next to nothing. If you keep them, you have a solid base to transition with and you will be respectable enough to draw in UFAs to plug holes. If you trade them for young proven players, you know you're getting quality in return, but quality that is years off from peaking.
The one thing I think we can all easily agree on is that pending UFA spare parts are best moved (Regehr, Leopold), even if it means leaning on guys who aren't quite ready (e.g. McNabb or something along those lines). If they're moved now rather than at the deadline it increases our chances (arguably anyhow, since neither have been good) of having a worse record, but trade value might be higher closer to the deadline. It's realistically possible that their value will be disappointing no matter what and will fetch nothing more than a mid-round pick each.
He failed because Lindy Ruff's system and teams are notoriously difficult to create chemistry in.
Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
He failed because he did not outplay any of our wingers, was a disaster when given a chance at center, and really thrives on having a great playmaking center who can utilize his ability to shoot out of the slot. Buffalo's closest thing to a playmaking center most of last year was Derek Roy and we all know Derek does not excel at making players around him better. Ruff can take some blame but it's ridiculous to act like it's all his fault.
sba
....
Wouldn't Move:
Miller
Vanek
Pominville
Grigorenko
Myers
Ehrhoff
Hodgson
Foligno
Anything else is on the table, Ennis only for ROR though.
Miller
Vanek
Pominville
Grigorenko
Myers
Ehrhoff
Hodgson
Foligno
Anything else is on the table, Ennis only for ROR though.
Isnt Sekera the guy that let Tavares walk in front of the net for the goal? Sorry I dont much about him if Im wrong.
Sean McG
Registered User
Just tossing the idea out there, is this not the ideal time to trade Vanek?
Unless Buffalo makes a 2007 Philadelphia-like turnaround, they're not going to be good for the remainder of Vanek's contract. He's slowed down a bit lately, mostly because the team sucks, but even with this brief cool off he's still tied for second in points and tied for first in goals. His value will probably never be higher, and with another season left on his deal it would make teams more comfortable trading for him. Doesn't seem too crazy to suggest a team would give Buffalo a nice package of prospects and picks for a deal centered around Vanek. It's as good a draft as any to load up picks for if they're going to rebuild this thing.
Unless Buffalo makes a 2007 Philadelphia-like turnaround, they're not going to be good for the remainder of Vanek's contract. He's slowed down a bit lately, mostly because the team sucks, but even with this brief cool off he's still tied for second in points and tied for first in goals. His value will probably never be higher, and with another season left on his deal it would make teams more comfortable trading for him. Doesn't seem too crazy to suggest a team would give Buffalo a nice package of prospects and picks for a deal centered around Vanek. It's as good a draft as any to load up picks for if they're going to rebuild this thing.
SECRET SQUIRREL
Registered User
I would entertain trading Vanek... might be tough tho, how many teams would be able to fit his 7+ million dollar cap hit for next season, especially since the caps going down 6/7 million?
old kummelweck
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2003
- 25,772
- 5,863
If I were Black/Pegula, I wouldn't let Regeir do anything at the deadline other than picks for UFA. He's done enough damage. Since the likelihood of a new GM coming in and evaluating talent in the organization isn't reasonable within the time remaining before the deadline. This deadline should resemble the bankruptcy deadline.
Regier gets fired after the last game, and that gives them time to find a new GM and for them to build a management, scouting and coaching team and pull things together around the draft.
I just realized I typed the same thought two years ago.
Regier gets fired after the last game, and that gives them time to find a new GM and for them to build a management, scouting and coaching team and pull things together around the draft.
I just realized I typed the same thought two years ago.
NYI 2013 1st, Griffin Reinhardt, Calvin De Haan, Josh Bailey, Andrew MacDonald, Matt Donovan and Okposo
for
Vanek Pominville Stafford
stokes84
Registered User
Hodgson doesn't have the skating and is a defensive liability because of it. He should be moved to the wing. People will scream bias at me, and I really don't care, but to be a center in the NHL you have to be able to play goal line to goal line and Hodgson can't. If you project Hodgson to be more permanent of a solution than Ennis at this point, you aren't paying attention or you are biased.
SECRET SQUIRREL
Registered User
If you want to play center in this league you have to be able to win a ****ing faceoff. Also, quitting on your back check multiple times a game is a no no, seems like Ennis is more suited for the wing, maybe its my bias tho.
stokes84
Registered User
tsujimoto74
Moderator
- May 28, 2012
- 30,635
- 23,421
Both are young, both have flaws in their games. Both have stepped up offensively and produced like top 6 centers in that regard.
They're 2 of the last people on the team I'd blame for its failings. I think they've both done an admirable job offensively, and Hodgson's also made some strides in his skating and, in the last several games, on faceoffs. They're not the guys who are playing well below their ability or my expectations. Myers needs to be better. Leopold and Regehr need to be better. Pominville and Stafford need to be better. And we need some capable defensive forwards.
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
Maybe there's this thing called practice and development. Maybe both our centers need it. Maybe they are both young and developing. Maybe, like most young players, practice and development will make them better at weak parts of their game? Maybe it will take 1, 2, 3 years?
Nah, that's just crazy talk! Why give young players any time to develop? If they aren't developed by 22-23 move em! Trade em! Cut em! Waive em!
Nah, that's just crazy talk! Why give young players any time to develop? If they aren't developed by 22-23 move em! Trade em! Cut em! Waive em!
Hodgy has definitely improved at the dot and on defense recently. He's got excellent vision as well. He's been solid for us.
And given that you're a huge Ennis fan, I'd leave the bias line out of your posts. Nothing wrong with liking a player, and I'm not even saying you're wrong, but when you have a bias you can't claim bias.
stokes84
Registered User
Maybe there's this thing called practice and development. Maybe both our centers need it. Maybe they are both young and developing. Maybe, like most young players, practice and development will make them better at weak parts of their game? Maybe it will take 1, 2, 3 years?
Nah, that's just crazy talk! Why give young players any time to develop? If they aren't developed by 22-23 move em! Trade em! Cut em! Waive em!
I just don't get why the CoHo to the wing conversation is off the table. He is very good in the offensive zone but clearly can't handle the defensive responsibilities of a top 6 center. To me, that screams pushing him to the wing. Poms for RoR, CoHo to RW.
Vanek-ROR-CoHo. Move forward that way.
I actually wouldn't mind moving Pominville. I'm at a blow it up mode. You could get alot for him.
stokes84
Registered User
I have no idea how you can draw this conclusion.
And as far as a bias goes, lets put it this way, if we reversed the roles on how these players were acquired and Ennis was drafted 10th overall by the Canucks and traded to us and Hodgson was drafted by the Sabres 26th overall, people would have the exact opposite view. There is no objective way that you can look at the way these two have performed this year and draw the conclusion that Ennis is expendable and CoHo is a fixture.
Spot on. Hodgson may not be the skater Ennis is, but he has 10x more defensive awareness and can actually win a faceoff. Moving Hodgson to the wing over Ennis would be Pejorative Slured.
